Rampant antisemitism remains prevalent

[herples]

6 hours ago, Rue said:

You in fact in the above sentence demonstrated when discussing Israeli state policies you felt are bad,  you falsely stereotyped Jews and Israelis  In fact as of February 2013, according to Israel's central Bureau of Statistics,  Israeli had 8 million  citizens of whom 75.4% were Jewish and 68% of those Jews were in fact born in Israel.

Now I asked you can you provide me a post or  a thread on this forum where someone advanced a criticism of Israeli state policies that does not connect to an argument that denies the right of Jews to be Israelis and Israeli to be a Jewish state? I asked you and you said you did not need to. Well I can tell you that you can't because they don't exist and had you I would have showed you the Canadian smugness Bush is referring to.

The relevance as to why  asked that question is precisely because Herples people like you can not help themselves from making false statements about Israelis and Jews when discussing Israeli state policies and that I would argue is why people like me argue back not because you are criticizing an Israeli state policy but because and when you make a comment about Jews or Israelis that is either false or questions our right to be Jewish, Israeli, both Israeli and Jewish.

Now you call Bush a troll. With due respect not on Israel. He could not be more blatantly obvious and clear in two things-his belief in US foreign policy and the best interests of the US which he absolutely does not hide, and 2, that he supports the rights of Jews to be Israeli and have their own state. He does not apologize for Israel. He does not claim Israel and the US agree on everything or anything.  I think with due respect you are mixing his satirical responses to Canadians who get smug with the US on his comments on Israel. They are not the same.

If you genuinely criticize an Israeli state policy it may or may not be an example of Canadian smugness depending on what criticism you engage in. You made the statement that you criticize the following: "I challenge the settlement program, the Gaza wall, the refusal to the right of return to Palestinians stuck in other Arab countries, the moving away from the two state solution, the division of the PLO which lead to the rise of Hamas. "

In regards to the settlement program, if by that you mean Jews who have settled on land on the West Bank, you may want to ask what land did you settle on in Canada, and how do you think you got it? That is the point Bush is making.  What makes you think you have superior rights to Canadian soil over Canadian aboriginals  than Jews do to the West Bank where they lived long before the people who today call themselves Muslims or Palestinians now live?

Have you given that a thought? You think your ancestors an d you are morally superior in how you obtained your land? 

The West Bank was never part of any sovereign nation. In fact Palestine was supposed to be given to Israel for a Jewish nation. Britain was awarded by the League of Nations a mandate to set up that Jewish state in Palestine. Instead and Churchill admits it in his memoirs because he's the man who did it, Britain deliberately lied, unilaterally and illegally seized 90% of Palestine and turned it into a Jewish free Palestinian Muslim state. To his day its coat of arms refers to it as a Palestinian state.

Jordan was created illegally. It was to be disbanded by the League of Nations at a meeting on the day WW2 broke out. Then after WW2, the UN which inherited the League Mandate turned its back on Jews in Palestine as the Arab League declared a war to kill off all Jews in Palestine. That war was led by ex Nazis and British officers leading the Arab armies. The Egyptian air force was flown by RAF pilots and Egypt's regular army as well as Syria's and Iraq's was led by ex Nazis. British officers led the Jordanian army. Where were you?

Where do you think these Jews came from? They were thrown out or fled from European countries and another 750, 000, more than any Arabs you claim were misplaced were thrown out of Arab countries and forced to flee to Israel. Where were you when all that happened? Well your country Canada was refusing entry to Jews in Canada like most nations at that time and turning their back. In fact only the US and France took in Jews after WW2- Canada I n fact took in more ex Nazis in the world other than Argentina, Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Paraguay.

Elenor Roosevelt took on the entire world defending Jewish refugees including her entire American government and Truman in his memoirs says so and how she convinced him to confront his own fallacies and stereotypes about Jews.  Russia under Stalin saw Israel as a potential communist state in the Middle East to fight against the Arab states all propped by European nations. It was the Jews of Israel who said no, we owe Elenor Roosevelt and would not turn their back on Americans. It was Truman who then reached out. The US, Czechoslovakia in 1949,   then Holland who were Israel's only true allies when they were faced with a second attempt by the Arab world to extinguish them.  Jews went back to Israel because we originated from there. Isn't it ironic you engage in the stereotype to this day that Israelis are European. No they are not. They are born in Israel and even the ones born in Israel or Arab countries are descended from the Jews of Israel. Why would you still define them as Europeans? Do you define Canadians as European? Do you? Do you state the majority of Canadians born in Canada are from descendants outside Canada as you do the Jews of Israel? Why the double standard?

That's the smugness Bush is pointing out precisely because he is a Yank and Yanks have always known they are mutts, i.e., came from everyone and became an American first and foremost while Canadians feel smug and retain hyphenated identities thinking this makes us superior to Yanks. That's his friggin point..

Now in regards to the wall, since that wall went up terror attacks coming in from the West Bank have been stopped. Tell me do you think if you are placed in danger by terror attacks the government and police in Canada don't and won't take security measures?  What you don't think Canada engages now in anti-terrorist measures it never once did?  That is another example of smugness Bush has pointed out. Do you complain about security measures at airports or when the police do a  RIDE program? Do you think we don't patrol our borders? Have you ever been to Israel? Have you any idea of how crowded and small the West Bank and East Jerusalem are? Could it be you are smug and Canadian precisely because you take size of space for granted and don't understand how close feuding factions are to one another? How long ago was it the War Measures Act was invoked in Canada? You really think Canada handled terrorism differently than Israel now does? You think if there were daily terror attacks things would not change?

By the way you criticize Israel for moving away from a two state solution? That is not Canadian smugness given how we behave with Quebec? Let me refresh your memory. Israel not once but three times offered the Palestinian Authority 95% of the West Bank in exchange for peace. Arafat told the entire world when he negotiated peace he did so in bad faith and never at any time would ever accept anything other than the complete return of  all of Israel and Jordan as a solution for peace. How is that Israel abandoning a two state solution? How has Israel abandon a two state solution when Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, have stated, they will never accept a two state solution?  Who would you have Israel make its agreement with Abbas? He has stated publically and repeatedly he will never recognize a Jewish state of Israel and stood up in his own assembly giving a standing ovation as fellow members chanted death to Israel. This is a man who wrote this ph.d thesis at the University of Moscow saying the holocaust never happened and he is portrayed as "moderate". Why do you phrase that as an Israeli failure? Name me one Muslim nation or leader that can or will come out and state it recognizes the right of Israel to be a Jewish state? One, name me one and you blame Israel? Who the phack would you have them talk to?

Abbas has stated he wil only disclose disbanding Israrl as a Jewish state. His idea of peace is to have ANY Muslim who calls himself or herself a Palestinian with NO test, the right of return and automatic citizenship in Israel. That's his solution for peace. Is it yours? You think you should move 10 million people claiming to be Palestinians into Israel? Abbas does. No other people in the world is defined as a refugee if they are second generation refugee except Palestinians and that includes Canada. But you new that?

Hamas didn't come about because of Israel. It was created by the Muslim brotherhood after WW2 and it rose to power  because Arafat and his PLO were corrupt and stole billions of foreign aid money and placed it in Swiss and French bank accounts. Arafat, do you even know who and what he was?  He was an Egyptian who had to keep his homosexuality in the closet and who in the Palestinian world was ridiculed for his gay closeted lifestyle and Egyptian accent. He was the protige of the Mullah of Jerusalem, who in W2 lived as a guest of Hitler and broadcast daily back to Arabs to defeat the British and wipe the Jews off the planet earth. That's Arafat's origins being a messenger for the Mullah. Arafat ran opium and hash hish caravans from Afghanistan. Iran, Iraq, through Lebanan and Jordan to Marseilles, France protected by the KGB and Deuxieme Bureau, France's equivalent to the CIA.

Arafat fought Hamas over control of Gaza. That had nothing to do with Israel.

Tell me you even know who lives on the West Bank? Arafat did In fact he knew since the majority were NOT Palestinians but Muslims who flooded the West Bank from Iraq and other Arab counties because of British immigration policies to prevent a Jewish state he blew up the land titles office. He blew it up because it showed how non Palestinian Muslims stole land from Palestinian Muslims. Arafat knew that Palestinian identity  was a fictional creation  of his own. Actual Palestinians were ultra orthodox Jess living in Hebron and Jerusalem, other non religious Jews, Itinerant Muslims and Christians. None of them owned land. It was owned by absentee landlords from the Ottoman Empire. When the British flooded the West Bank with Arabs it was to prevent Jews from creating a nation. It also displaced all the Palestinian Muslims.

You subscribe to a friggin myth. A smug Canadian myth where you came from a cabbage leaf in Canada and where  anyone Muslim is automatically a Palestinian if they came to Palestinian but a Jew born in Palestine or who came there, nope not them, they were settlers from outside. That double standard comes from someone born in Canada who knows nothing about the origins of Jews and thinks we all suddenly came from Europe.

Jews were no more foreign to Palestinian than the Muslims who flooded Palestine. More to the point Israel has always had an equal amount of Tsfardic or Mitzrahi  Jews from Arab countries no different than these Muslims who came to Palestine and Felashie Jews and Jews from Sudan, Africa, Asia, India, no they did not come from Europe.

Now you want to discuss Israeli state policies go ahead but don't tell me the majority of Israelis are European, that is false. Don't pose the issues as if its simply because of what Israel does.

Go read the damn constitution of Hamas. You think they will recognize Israel if it pulls out of the West Bank? What world do you live in. The day they withdrew from the West Bank Hamas attacked them and has never stopped. When Israeli withdrew from Lebanon the Hezbollah said they would disarm and live peacefully side by side. The day Israel withdrew, Hezbollah attacked.

Tell me if Rene Levesque declared a terror campaign on Canada, if aboriginals in Canada declared a terror campaign  on Canada what the phack do you think our government would do?

Here is the full quote. of what I said.

Majority of Israeli Jews originate from Europe what is your point? If they are born in Israel they are Israeli if they are born in Canada they are Canadian. Bush doesn't have a point he is doing his usual trolling. 

Don't take my quotes out of context. You are only doing so in the hopes to hand wave away any argument that you don't like.

I don't need to post posts from other users to you. 

A Canadian's arguments against Israel's settlement program isn't harmed by Canada's government's issues with the First Nations. Like wise an Israeli person's argument against Canada's treatment of the First Nations isn't harmed by their own government's treatment of the Palestinians. The whole trying to change the subject to Canada is pretty alarming if that is how far you are willing to go to censor the subject from discussion. As to Canadian smugness it is nothing more than a petty insult. 

The Muslim brotherhood offshoots were financed by Israel to act as counter weight against the PLO. The Offshoots goes on to form the Islamic university in Gaza and then later this offshoot becomes Hamas which starts becoming worse after the Oslo Accords. Hamas was able to play on peoples desire to continue to resist Israel and won the election. 

6 hours ago, Argus said:

Huh? The wall was put in place to stop the numerous suicide bombings, and has pretty much succeeded. The Palestinians brought it on themselves. If natives in Canada were blowing themselves up all over the place or violently attacking other people we'd see walls around their reservations too. The right of return is nonsense and will never happen. It's simply not a reasonable proposition as it would immediately cause Israel to have a majority Muslim population and lead to civil war. The PLO wasn't divided by Israel but by Palestinian voters. Besides, it's been 70 years. Almost no one is left alive from those times to return. What the 'right of return' wants is all their descendants to 'return' and that's not happening. Maybe they could be given the homes of some of the Jews chased out of Arab countries as compensation.

As to a two state solution, I don't believe it's workable. At best it would produce a dirt-poor nation much like Yemen, probably ruled by religious extremists, without any real resources or infrastructure. The best that could happen for the people living there  is for the West Bank to be absorbed by Jordan and Gaze to be absorbed by Egypt.

All of that would not be happening had Israel not allowed Muslim Brotherhood offshoots to take hold just so they can fight the PLO. 

I would say not allowing people to come back is unreasonable.

That is not a reason to deny other people their right to statehood. Something they have wanted for 70 years. 

[Rue]

14 hours ago, herples said:

Here is the full quote. of what I said.

Don't take my quotes out of context. You are only doing so in the hopes to hand wave away any argument that you don't like.

I don't need to post posts from other users to you. 

A Canadian's arguments against Israel's settlement program isn't harmed by Canada's government's issues with the First Nations. Like wise an Israeli person's argument against Canada's treatment of the First Nations isn't harmed by their own government's treatment of the Palestinians. The whole trying to change the subject to Canada is pretty alarming if that is how far you are willing to go to censor the subject from discussion. As to Canadian smugness it is nothing more than a petty insult. 

The Muslim brotherhood offshoots were financed by Israel to act as counter weight against the PLO. The Offshoots goes on to form the Islamic university in Gaza and then later this offshoot becomes Hamas which starts becoming worse after the Oslo Accords. Hamas was able to play on peoples desire to continue to resist Israel and won the election. 

All of that would not be happening had Israel not allowed Muslim Brotherhood offshoots to take hold just so they can fight the PLO. 

I would say not allowing people to come back is unreasonable.

That is not a reason to deny other people their right to statehood. Something they have wanted for 70 years. 

Your quote was not taken out of context. You falsely stated the majority of Israelis are from Europe. They are not. Its also a double standard to describe Israelis as being from Europe for two reasons. As a Canadian no one questions your right to be Canadian saying your ancestors are not native peoples. Next in fact Israelis did not originate in Europe but from Judea and Somaria which if anything means they are indigenous to Israel.

Also please don't take your opinions that I challenged and Bush challenged  out of context. We did not suggest your opinions  are  synonomous with the Canadian government's  actions with indigenous peoples. I am challenging your assumptions about Israel and Israelis,

Next Israeli never funded or financed what you refer to as Muslim brotherhood offshoots whatever that means. In fact Hamas was created in the 1950's by the  I would love for you to quote the sources for that. Hamas has always been and will always be financed by Saudi Arabia and/or the Muslim Brotherhood not Israel. I was in Israel when the Israeli government, Israeli citizens privately and Israeli charities assisted Muslim charities who worked with Hamas. Some of these charities ma an Egyptian  cell of the Muslim Brotherhood.  in 1979, Israel did assist Sheik Yassin . At that time Yassin ran  Al Jama Al Islam Islami a charity which funded the building of schools, homes, hospitals, mosques, roads, infrastructure.  It was not terrorist. In fact Yassin denounced terrorism. Israel openly assisted it showing Palestinians if they rejected terrorism Israel would assist it build its own Muslim state in Gaza and the West Bank. So please don't twist that as Israel financing Hamas terrorism.

Your comment that Israel did not allow Muslim brotherhood offshoots to take hold just so they can fight the PLO makes no sense. If anything you accused Israel of creating Hamas so one would assume  you mean hey created Hamas to fight the PA and not the PLO because the PLO no longer existed.

You also said not allowing non Israelis to come back to Israel  is unreasonable. I would say that smacks of Canadian smugness. Would you find it  reasonable to ship you back to Europe and give your land back to aboriginals? Of course not. Why the double standard? That double standard is what Bush and I both refer to as Canadian smugness.

You also made a false statement that  Israel has never denied Palestinians statehood. Israel is on public record of signing 4 agreements recognizing a second Palestinian state. It was Abbas and Arafat who ripped them up not Israel.

The only thing Israel has ever said and continues to say is Palestinians can not take over Israel and turn it into a Muslim state which is Abbas' condition for peace.

This is why I asked you find me one Palestinian leader who recognizes Israel's right to be a Jewish state. You can't. There are none.

How about you? How many agreements has your government dishonoured with aboriginals so that you can live in a legal system that codifies the imposition of your rights over aboriginal peoples' rights?

Your very standard of criticism goes to a double standard which I think is a kind of Canadian smugness that comes from not understanding your own country's origins.

That is what I am challenging-your double standard.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

http://www.meforum.org/6497/three-reasons-for-double-standard-on-israel

To bring this discussion back to the thread I have argued some NOT all, but some criticism of Israel state policies in fact includes a double standard of behaviour expected of Jews unlike Christians or Muslims and this double standard  can be  based on a type of anti Semitism.

This double standard I talk of is in the above article.

[eyeball]

On 8/14/2017 at 1:22 PM, Rue said:

Where do you think these Jews came from? They were thrown out or fled from European countries

Again, in retrospect, European Jews should have been ceded a good sized chunk of Europe.

It's never too late to try, take Israel for example.

[drummindiver]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Again, in retrospect, European Jews should have been ceded a good sized chunk of Europe.

It's never too late to try, take Israel for example.

I'm sure you would rather Hitler had killed them all, yes?

[capricorn]

3 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

I'm sure you would rather Hitler had killed them all, yes?

Earthlings are expendable according to eyeball, especially if they are seniors.

[drummindiver]

24 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Earthlings are expendable according to eyeball, especially if they are seniors.

Senior jews especially. Think they're stealing his air?

[Hudson Jones]

On 8/15/2017 at 0:04 PM, Rue said:

http://www.meforum.org/6497/three-reasons-for-double-standard-on-israel

To bring this discussion back to the thread I have argued some NOT all, but some criticism of Israel state policies in fact includes a double standard of behaviour expected of Jews unlike Christians or Muslims and this double standard  can be  based on a type of anti Semitism.

This double standard I talk of is in the above article.

Got to love links from Middle East Forum, where Daniel Pipes is the editor.

Daniel Pipes is a chicken-hawk. He was in favour of the Vietnam war and was a big advocate of the Iraq war. A war pushed by neo-cons/pro-Zionists. He is also behind Campus Watch. A McCarthyist organization, where they do the typical attacks Israeli Firsters do and go after professors and students who criticize Israel's policies.

This anti-Arab propagandist thinks Muslims in government and military should be given special attention, because Muslims cannot be trusted.

He is also against a Palestinian State and Palestinian self=determination. 

Anyone who links to Daniel Pipes or any of his racist organizations, should be ashamed.

 

 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, drummindiver said:

I'm sure you would rather Hitler had killed them all, yes?

No. Why and how on Earth you could imagine or even ask such a thing in light of anything I've said is a testament to your utterly  warped and degenerate perspective.

You are one very sick puppy.

[GostHacked]

On 8/17/2017 at 7:35 PM, capricorn said:

Earthlings are expendable according to eyeball, especially if they are seniors.

Eyeball in my view only has disdain for the idiots. And there are a lot of idiots.

[GostHacked]

On 8/15/2017 at 3:04 PM, Rue said:

http://www.meforum.org/6497/three-reasons-for-double-standard-on-israel

To bring this discussion back to the thread I have argued some NOT all, but some criticism of Israel state policies in fact includes a double standard of behaviour expected of Jews unlike Christians or Muslims and this double standard  can be  based on a type of anti Semitism.

This double standard I talk of is in the above article.

You keep saying you believe not all criticism is anti-semetic,  but I still have yet to see you treat any reply here on this board that way. I guess it just depends on who you are replying to.

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎08‎-‎17 at 8:29 PM, Hudson Jones said:

Got to love links from Middle East Forum, where Daniel Pipes is the editor.

Daniel Pipes is a chicken-hawk. He was in favour of the Vietnam war and was a big advocate of the Iraq war. A war pushed by neo-cons/pro-Zionists. He is also behind Campus Watch. A McCarthyist organization, where they do the typical attacks Israeli Firsters do and go after professors and students who criticize Israel's policies.

This anti-Arab propagandist thinks Muslims in government and military should be given special attention, because Muslims cannot be trusted.

He is also against a Palestinian State and Palestinian self=determination. 

Anyone who links to Daniel Pipes or any of his racist organizations, should be ashamed.

 

 

You are an anti-Semite and a bigot. You come on this board to engage in anti-semtiic attacks against Jews for having a Jewish state. For you to pose as some righteous saint telling others to be ashamed speaks loudly again as to what a ridiculous narcissist you are. Run along and piss at a latka.

 

 

 

 

[Rue]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

You keep saying you believe not all criticism is anti-semetic,  but I still have yet to see you treat any reply here on this board that way. I guess it just depends on who you are replying to.

It depends on the WORDS the replier provides.  Your continued attempt to make this about you simly shows your narcissistic personality and need to make everything about you.

 

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Avoid personal attacks. 

[Hudson Jones]

On 8/19/2017 at 1:33 PM, Rue said:

You are an anti-Semite and a bigot.

You can keep repeating that until you're blue in the face, but until you are able to show proof that I have said anything racist or bigoted, you continue to fail. 

Oh and being against Zionist ideology or Israel's policies against its minorities is not racist. 

Quote

You come on this board to engage in anti-semtiic attacks against Jews for having a Jewish state. 

Wrong again. 

Even though the state of Israel was created without the agreement of the inhabitants, we're at a point of no return and I accept the State of Israel. 

What I am against is the expansionism and the illegal occupation. I'm also against Israel's policy to never allow a Palestinian State to be formed.

You, on the other hand, are for expansionism, illegal occupation, racist policies and against a Palestinian State to be formed, as stated under international law. Shame on you.

[herples]

On 8/15/2017 at 9:33 AM, Rue said:

Your quote was not taken out of context. You falsely stated the majority of Israelis are from Europe. They are not. Its also a double standard to describe Israelis as being from Europe for two reasons. As a Canadian no one questions your right to be Canadian saying your ancestors are not native peoples. Next in fact Israelis did not originate in Europe but from Judea and Somaria which if anything means they are indigenous to Israel.

Also please don't take your opinions that I challenged and Bush challenged  out of context. We did not suggest your opinions  are  synonomous with the Canadian government's  actions with indigenous peoples. I am challenging your assumptions about Israel and Israelis,

Next Israeli never funded or financed what you refer to as Muslim brotherhood offshoots whatever that means. In fact Hamas was created in the 1950's by the  I would love for you to quote the sources for that. Hamas has always been and will always be financed by Saudi Arabia and/or the Muslim Brotherhood not Israel. I was in Israel when the Israeli government, Israeli citizens privately and Israeli charities assisted Muslim charities who worked with Hamas. Some of these charities ma an Egyptian  cell of the Muslim Brotherhood.  in 1979, Israel did assist Sheik Yassin . At that time Yassin ran  Al Jama Al Islam Islami a charity which funded the building of schools, homes, hospitals, mosques, roads, infrastructure.  It was not terrorist. In fact Yassin denounced terrorism. Israel openly assisted it showing Palestinians if they rejected terrorism Israel would assist it build its own Muslim state in Gaza and the West Bank. So please don't twist that as Israel financing Hamas terrorism.

Your comment that Israel did not allow Muslim brotherhood offshoots to take hold just so they can fight the PLO makes no sense. If anything you accused Israel of creating Hamas so one would assume  you mean hey created Hamas to fight the PA and not the PLO because the PLO no longer existed.

You also said not allowing non Israelis to come back to Israel  is unreasonable. I would say that smacks of Canadian smugness. Would you find it  reasonable to ship you back to Europe and give your land back to aboriginals? Of course not. Why the double standard? That double standard is what Bush and I both refer to as Canadian smugness.

You also made a false statement that  Israel has never denied Palestinians statehood. Israel is on public record of signing 4 agreements recognizing a second Palestinian state. It was Abbas and Arafat who ripped them up not Israel.

The only thing Israel has ever said and continues to say is Palestinians can not take over Israel and turn it into a Muslim state which is Abbas' condition for peace.

This is why I asked you find me one Palestinian leader who recognizes Israel's right to be a Jewish state. You can't. There are none.

How about you? How many agreements has your government dishonoured with aboriginals so that you can live in a legal system that codifies the imposition of your rights over aboriginal peoples' rights?

Your very standard of criticism goes to a double standard which I think is a kind of Canadian smugness that comes from not understanding your own country's origins.

That is what I am challenging-your double standard.

 

 

You most certainly did take my post out of context. 

You are not challenging anything you are running in circles.

Post where I claimed Hamas was formed in the 50's. Your paragraph on trying to claim Yassin denounced terrorism when he in fact called for it. Israel certainly played a part in allowing Hamas to become what it is today.

Your requests are meaningless I never made any claim about Palestinians leaders recognition of Israel. 

This thread is about antisemitism not Canada and it's relationship with aboriginial people perhaps it isn't obvious to you.

I understand my own countries origins but apparently you are not understanding of Israel's origins. You haven't shown any double standard you only made a red herring. 

 

[GostHacked]

On 8/14/2017 at 4:22 PM, Rue said:

Now I asked you can you provide me a post or  a thread on this forum where someone advanced a criticism of Israeli state policies that does not connect to an argument that denies the right of Jews to be Israelis and Israeli to be a Jewish state? I asked you and you said you did not need to. Well I can tell you that you can't because they don't exist and had you I would have showed you the Canadian smugness Bush is referring to.

Even you have a problem with the expansion of the illegal settlements in the West Bank. Which if the settlements were removed, it would not pose a threat to Israel's existence. If anything staying in the West Bank is a threat to Israel.

 

But I guess that is just the anti-semitism in me talking shit.

[Rue]

17 hours ago, herples said:

You most certainly did take my post out of context. 

Post where I claimed Hamas was formed in the 50's. Your paragraph on trying to claim Yassin denounced terrorism when he in fact called for it. Israel certainly played a part in allowing Hamas to become what it is today.

Your requests are meaningless I never made any claim about Palestinians leaders recognition of Israel. 

This thread is about antisemitism not Canada and it's relationship with aboriginial people perhaps it isn't obvious to you.

I understand my own countries origins but apparently you are not understanding of Israel's origins. You haven't shown any double standard you only made a red herring. 

 

No but you now certainly have misstated what I actually said. By the way if I am talking circles that is a direct reflection on your comments as I simply respond to your comments. Stop talking in circles and I will stop responding to those circular thoughts.

Yassin did denounce  terrorism prior to 1988. That is public fact and domain that Hamas openly acknowledges.  His decision to embrace terrorism I n 1988 is public knowledge and doman came about after years of rejecting terrorism. Of course It was only after  he embraced terrorism Israel then had a problem with him being a terrorist..

You made a statement Israel allowed Hamas to become what it is today.. nonsense. Hamas made itself. Hamas created itself and chose its destiny. Using your illogical argument  Hamas  created Israel. Go look up who created and funded Hamas.. Blaming Israel for its creation because it supported charities engaged in non terrorist activities that had relations with Hamas  is ridiculous.

Next, I never stated you claimed Hamas was formed in the 50's. I did say its origins can be traced back to the Muslim Brotherhood in the 20's.

As I stated  and you can not and have not repudiatyed, Israel never had direct or indirect contract with the creators of Hamas. They did in fact assist charities indirectly affiliated with Hamas on charitable projects not Hamas terrorism or Hamas itself. That is public domain and fact. The charities Israel assisted and what they did is public fact.

Next, perhaps what is not obvious to you is the people who justify anti Semitism on this board by claiming Jews should not be allowed to have a state or defend themselves against terrorists for existing as a collective state is based on a smug Canadian double standard of people who claim Jews invaded and stole land from Arabs while Jews are in fact indigenous to the Middle East and Canada is founded on the very exercise these Canadians now accuse Jews of.

Next Bush-Chaney not I initiated and first  discussed  the double standard and he's done it many times and I most certainly agree with him. I

 The fact you call his comment which I 100% agree with  a red herring simply means you deny and refuse to acknowledge that no Canadian should point their finger at anyone and accuse them of being an invader of a nation given the history of Canada  and if you can't see the double standard I think you are full of it...

Next, don't be presumptious and suggest to  me I don't know the origins of Israel or  my own people because you disagree with me.

Back off with this  uppity bullshit attitude. You disagree with me that is your perfect right but don't presume to tell this  Jew where his place is on this planet or universe and where I came from. You've never been to Israel, you haven't studied the history of the Jews- don't presume to lecture me you know more about my people than I do. I lived there. I studied there. I also studied Islam, and lived with Beduins and Druze and learned their customs as well as Christian Coptic, Assyrian, Bahaii, Zoroastrean, Kurd and Berber traditions and make no claim to be an expert on any but I know enough to respect them all and not talk down to anyone about their own culture..

This talking down, this presumption you are in the position to select and  lecture Israelis or Jews  is precisely why Israel was created-to protect the Jewish collective from people like you who claim to tell us what our place is. Israel is the existential act of telling you, never again will you or anyone tell a Jew where his or her place is on this planet.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

source:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23799.htm

 

It’s time to debunk a few of these myths with facts.

1) Hamas was not created by Mossad. Although Israel does like to claim credit for many things, this one is not their doing. Political Islam in Palestine has had a presence since the early 40s in Mandate Palestine, and Hamas was born as part of the Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan), with many of its early leaders formally affiliated. It was the experience of refugeehood that turned Hamas into a more autonomous element with a particular nationalist basis to it, a natural result of the urgent and real human situation of displacement and loss of their cultural and national identity.

There were close relations of this group with the Egyptian base, and the first offices of the Ikhwan in Palestine were created in Gaza in 1945, led by a member of one of the most important families of the zone, Sheykh Zafer al Shawwa. During the first Arab-Israeli war, Islamist volunteers reinforced the ranks, coming primarily from Jordan and Syria, and this support showed the refugees that the Ikhwan had the courage to defend itself, even during the “Israeli War of Independence”. The growing number of refugees gave a stronger identity and sense of purpose to the Islamist movement in Palestine. Therefore, in the civil society and in the population in general, a motivation from any other source was not required to be able to pledge: “I promise to be a good Muslim in defending Islam and the lost land of Palestine. I promise to be a good example for the community and for others.” These were the words spoken by those who swore their loyalty to the Ikhwan in Palestine (source: Beverly Milton Edwards, “Islamic Politics in Palestine”, p. 43). The local Ikhwan had its own agenda, defending its lost land. It didn’t require fanaticism, outside influence or even propaganda. The refugees themselves were living proof of the horrors of deportation and suffering. The identification as part of an international movement was concomitant with the recognition of the particularity of the Palestinian experience. The official foundation, dating 9 December 1987, was only the culmination of an organisation in the works for decades. Organised Islamic resistance was further utilised when the situation precipitated dramatically in 1967 and a new generation was born as refugees. For this generation, a return to Islam was considered as a necessity for the moral and political future of a people that was being literally destroyed. The cause of the Nakba was seen by many as the result of the distancing from a normal society, the Palestinian one, in which the ethical, religious, cultural and traditional values had been devastated by the occupation, and the descent into further degradation, poverty, disenfranchisement and social instability was seen not only as the result of the occupation, but part of its cause.

The “international community” would not come to the rescue of these people, the rest of the Ummah was not caught up in their national struggle, largely because they were not directly involved or were even prohibited from involvement. The extreme pain and disgrace of losing one’s land at that time was a new element to the area, where previous colonisation avoided expelling the indigenous inhabitants, and throwing off the usurpers was not complicated with the total loss of roots and a base. The basis for the formal dimension of Hamas was thus present for decades prior to its official birth. In order to operate, being under the thumb of the occupation, these organised groups that existed had established charities and benefit organisations for their people. These institutions were tolerated by Israel in the Occupied Territories. Israel conceded some operating space through granting of licenses. As General Yitzhak Sager said in an interview to the International Herald Tribune in 1981, the Israeli government “…gave money that the military governor allocated to the mosques […] the sums were used both by the mosques and the religious schools, with the purpose of reinforcing a subject that would contrast that of the Left that was in favour of the PLO.” If there was some motivation for Israel to be involved, it was really as an act of ‘divide and rule’, a bit of tolerance, a bit of economic support to the various religious associations in order to see if an opposition to the nationalists of the PLO could develop. They really were only looking for a way to see the weakening of the PLO, which was gaining some support in the West, and they did not found, provide major financing or in any way influence a movement that they would in some way infiltrate or control. That is pure mythology. Why give Israel credit where none is due?

 

[Rue]

source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/myths-and-facts-the-palestinian-uprisings

 

MYTH

“Israel created Hamas.”

FACT

Israel had nothing to do with the creation of Hamas. The The organization grew out of the ideology and practice of the Islamic fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood movement that arose in Egypt in the 1920s.

Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 as an Islamic Association by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin. Initially, the organization engaged primarily in social welfare activities and soon developed a reputation for improving the lives of Palestinians, particularly the refugees in the Gaza Strip.

Though Hamas was committed from the outset to destroying Israel, it took the position that this was a goal for the future, and that the more immediate focus should be on winning the hearts and minds of the people through its charitable and educational activities. Its funding came primarily from Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

The PLO was convinced that Israel was helping Hamas in the hope of triggering a civil war. Since Hamas did not engage in terror at first, Israel did not see it as a serious short-term threat, and some Israelis believed the rise of fundamentalism in Gaza would have the beneficial impact of weakening the PLO, and this is what ultimately happened.

Hamas certainly didn’t believe it was being supported by Israel. As early as February 1988, the group put out a primer on how its members should behave if confronted by the Shin Bet. Several more instructional documents were distributed by Hamas to teach followers how to confront the Israelis and maintain secrecy.

Israel’s assistance was more passive than active, that is, it did not interfere with Hamas activities or prevent funds from flowing into the organization from abroad. Israel also may have provided some funding to allow its security forces to infiltrate the organization.⁹⁴ Meanwhile, Jordan was actively helping Hamas, with the aim of undermining the PLO and strengthening Jordanian influence in the territories.

Though some Israelis were very concerned about Hamas before rioting began in December 1987, Israel was reluctant to interfere with an Islamic organization, fearing that it might trigger charges of violating the Palestinians’ freedom of religion. It was not until early in the intifada, when Hamas became actively involved in the violence, that the group began to be viewed as a potentially greater threat than the PLO. The turning point occurred in the summer of 1988 when Israel learned that Hamas was stockpiling arms to build an underground force and Hamas issued its covenant calling for the destruction of Israel. At this point it became clear that Hamas was not going to put off its jihad to liberate Palestine and was shifting its emphasis from charitable and educational activity to terrorism. Israel then began to crack down on Hamas and wiped out its entire command structure. Hamas has been waging a terror war against Israel ever since.⁹⁵

⁹⁴Richard Sale, "Hamas history tied to Israel," UPI (June 18, 2002).
⁹⁵Ze'ev Schiff and Ehud Ya'ari, Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising-- Israel's Third Front. NY: Simon and Schuster, 1990, pp. 227-239.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Israel did not create Hamas - that's a straw man - but I do remember reading many years ago (I think in The Economist magazine) that Israel was supporting Hamas against the PLO which is plausible. 

Israel/Palestine is a tribal war. Anybody talking about absolute good and evil in such matters knows nothing about human nature. 

[herples]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/?utm_term=.7cabfc310cc6

 

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎08‎-‎26 at 0:35 AM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Israel did not create Hamas - that's a straw man - but I do remember reading many years ago (I think in The Economist magazine) that Israel was supporting Hamas against the PLO which is plausible. 

Israel/Palestine is a tribal war. Anybody talking about absolute good and evil in such matters knows nothing about human nature. 

A lot of false stories have been spread about Israel supporting or creating Hezbollah, the PA, the PLO,  Hamas. Al Quaeda, on and on.

Israel has always provided humanitarian aid. It provides it in Syria right now. That led to accusations it supports Al Nusra which it does not.

Israel's humanitarian aid and where it goes is not exactly a state secret:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Aid/Pages/Israel_humanitarian_aid.aspx

Now you have to understand that in the Middle East the worst possible insult that can be made about you as a Muslim is that you accept help from a Jew of any kind not just an Israeli.

Hamas. Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Al Nusra. the PA, all have accused each other of having been created by or being controlled by or operating for Israel. It is all  part of the rhetoric between feuding Muslim terrorists and factions.

Its been going on since 1949. When Israel was first created, certain families in Jordan actually donated land, good farm land to holocaust refugees and were killed for doing so.

Arab Israelis, Beduin Israelis, Druze Israelis have fought in the Israeli Armed Forces. Palestinians have always been given access for treatment for their children or seniors especially for cancer related diseases, diabetes and heart disease or things like malaria.

If it got out Arabs and Jews got along and are capable of living peacefully the very terror cells that depend on them not living peacefully would lose their very purpose for existing and so its crucial they pump the internet, airwaves, media with fabricated conspiracy alliances with Zionists, etc.

When I lived in Israel as a student I volunteered bringing medical supplies to people in the PLO from the Israeli military for things like impitago (skin rash on the face from dirty hands) snake and spider venom, needles to lance boils, talcum powder for babies, sanitary napkins, toe nail clippers, flea powder, and so on.

When the PLO had members who basically worked as social workers back in those days, the IDF regularly gave them medical supplies. It was no secret.

In Gaza it was no secret, Israel funded hundreds of grass roots charities all tied to the Muslim Brotherhood who also started Hamas. Why? Because these charities unlike the PLO were not corrupt. They engaged in direct aid to the poor building them homes, toilets, roads, schools, hospitals. Israel of course supported this. What better way to show your neighbour you wanted to live next to them peacefully. Thousands of Palestinians came in daily from the West Bank and Gaza to work in Israel.

What the Muslim extremists on this forum will never admit is when Palestinians did not engage in violence and terror against Israel, Israel was a good neighbour. Grass roots projects were done. I witnessed first hand Palestinians and Israeli Jews working side by side building projects and sharing electricity and water.

What happened tragically is that after I left a new militant wing won over Hamas's upper echelon from its Egyptian wing and the first thing it did was start killing any Palestinian who refused to stop working on Israel. To kill them they would put tires around their head and light them on fire. It used to shove poles with Israeli flags up the buttox of Palestinians, pull out their colons and leave them on the street bleeding to death like that.

They blew up the roads, schools, greenhouses, mosques, anything showing peaceful cooperation.

Then Hamas went to war with the PA over the Gaza because Arafat was corrupt. Arafat stole all the foreign aid money and left his people starving while his ban accounts in France and Switzerland overflowed

Arafat was untouchable. He travelled with an East German bodyguard and East German Stasni assigned to protect him and he was also protected by La Deuxieme Bureau,  France's equivalent to he CIA and the KGB. He made a fortunate using his protection to smuggle heroin and hash hish from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria out to Marseilles, France and on to New York City.

DeGaulle cultivated Arafat to get French contracts. Arafat was in fact chosen to head the PLO because his drug caravans gave him contacts in all Arab states.

The PLO was always an umbrella organization of loosely knit terror cells with only one thing in common, their hatred of Israel. Arafat was a myth created by the Western media because it was too difficult to figure out who was leader of all the cells in the PLO network. The leaders and their alliances would change constantly.

Hamas was a Muslim Brotherhood creation. It was not affiliated with the Mullah of Jerusalem and his Palestinian nationals and it was that Mullah who lived as a guest of Hitler during WW2 and after the war fled to Iraq and had picked the Egyptian, Yasir Arafat to head the Palestinian national movement. In fact the Muslim Brotherhood wished nothing to do with Arafat because it was well known he was a homosexual and selling drugs both not things religious Muslims would tolerate.

If you lived in the Middle East you would be well aware of all this. The alliances between Muslim factions both extreme and semi moderate were always and have always changed.

The only thing that kept the Muslim world unified for years was Israel. That was the only thing they could all agree on, i.e., hating. Now that's not the case. The civil war between Shiites and Sunnis delayed for about 50 years by its mutual hatred of Israel has now refocused on each other.

The reason for that is that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan,  and the UAE saw Iran financing Muslim militants designed to cause civil wars and overthrow their governments. Lebanon became the first theatre of civil war between Shiite and Sunni. In fact Syria is 90% Sunni. A tiny sect of Muslims not even considered Muslims by the Sunnis, the Alawites which Assad and his predecessor father were from, used an alliance with the Shiites in Lebanon, the Hezbolllah, created by Iran, to prop their power. The Alawites are a mystic sect and if the Shiites didn't have the Sunnis even more and find them a useful prop, they would have wiped them out.

I can tell you the only true alliances Israel has ever had in the Middle East is with Beduins, Druze, Kurds, Berbers, Coptic Christians, and the Bahaiis. It has made mutual relartions with all these groups and Druze and Beduin have fought for Israel. Assyrian Christian and Coptic Christians do not consider Israel their enemy and they have been targeted in Syria and Egypt by extremist Muslims. Bahaiis were targeted for death in Iran accused of being Zionist collaborators because their head Temple is in Haifa. The Bahaiis are pacifists and do not side with anyone. Israel has always supported the Kurds because they have been targeted for genocide by Iran, Turkey and Iraq (Hussein) and when Hussein started gassing their villages to kill thousands at once, Israel morally said, it could not stand by and watch Kurds be gassed to death.

Turkey turned on Israel when Israel openly commemorated the Armenian genocide by Turkey.

Within the Sunni Muslim sects they have hatred for Ismaili and Ammidyah Muslims and other smaller sects and do not conside Shiites true Muslims and the Shiites feel the same way in reverse.

There is no constant theme of alliances in the Middle East. They change every day. Today's enemy is tomorrow's ally is the next day's enemy again. Alliances come and go with the sand dunes.

Actually when you track most stories about Zionist Muslim alliances in invariably leads to one of two places, the Syrian Ministry of Communications or the Iranian government's propaganda branch.

The only supposed secret relations were with King Hussein who used to drive into Jerusalem and meet regularly with Golda Maer. As well the King of Morrocco for years acted as a liaison to he Arab world to Israel.

Israel allied with Hamas. Uh no. That comes from the same place as Zionists were allied with Hitler. Horseshit false stories, all debunked and traced to Russian or Syrian-Iranian sources.

The thing is though, the scripts continue. They get recycled on the internet fueled by no Nazi groups the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, all who have  vested interest in inciting distrust between Muslims and hatred of Israel.

 

[kactus]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

A lot of false stories have been spread about Israel supporting or creating Hezbollah, the PA, the PLO,  Hamas. Al Quaeda, on and on.

Israel has always provided humanitarian aid. It provides it in Syria right now. That led to accusations it supports Al Nusra which it does not.

Israel's humanitarian aid and where it goes is not exactly a state secret:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Aid/Pages/Israel_humanitarian_aid.aspx

Now you have to understand that in the Middle East the worst possible insult that can be made about you as a Muslim is that you accept help from a Jew of any kind not just an Israeli.

Hamas. Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Al Nusra. the PA, all have accused each other of having been created by or being controlled by or operating for Israel. It is all  part of the rhetoric between feuding Muslim terrorists and factions.

Its been going on since 1949. When Israel was first created, certain families in Jordan actually donated land, good farm land to holocaust refugees and were killed for doing so.

Arab Israelis, Beduin Israelis, Druze Israelis have fought in the Israeli Armed Forces. Palestinians have always been given access for treatment for their children or seniors especially for cancer related diseases, diabetes and heart disease or things like malaria.

If it got out Arabs and Jews got along and are capable of living peacefully the very terror cells that depend on them not living peacefully would lose their very purpose for existing and so its crucial they pump the internet, airwaves, media with fabricated conspiracy alliances with Zionists, etc.

When I lived in Israel as a student I volunteered bringing medical supplies to people in the PLO from the Israeli military for things like impitago (skin rash on the face from dirty hands) snake and spider venom, needles to lance boils, talcum powder for babies, sanitary napkins, toe nail clippers, flea powder, and so on.

When the PLO had members who basically worked as social workers back in those days, the IDF regularly gave them medical supplies. It was no secret.

In Gaza it was no secret, Israel funded hundreds of grass roots charities all tied to the Muslim Brotherhood who also started Hamas. Why? Because these charities unlike the PLO were not corrupt. They engaged in direct aid to the poor building them homes, toilets, roads, schools, hospitals. Israel of course supported this. What better way to show your neighbour you wanted to live next to them peacefully. Thousands of Palestinians came in daily from the West Bank and Gaza to work in Israel.

What the Muslim extremists on this forum will never admit is when Palestinians did not engage in violence and terror against Israel, Israel was a good neighbour. Grass roots projects were done. I witnessed first hand Palestinians and Israeli Jews working side by side building projects and sharing electricity and water.

What happened tragically is that after I left a new militant wing won over Hamas's upper echelon from its Egyptian wing and the first thing it did was start killing any Palestinian who refused to stop working on Israel. To kill them they would put tires around their head and light them on fire. It used to shove poles with Israeli flags up the buttox of Palestinians, pull out their colons and leave them on the street bleeding to death like that.

They blew up the roads, schools, greenhouses, mosques, anything showing peaceful cooperation.

Then Hamas went to war with the PA over the Gaza because Arafat was corrupt. Arafat stole all the foreign aid money and left his people starving while his ban accounts in France and Switzerland overflowed

Arafat was untouchable. He travelled with an East German bodyguard and East German Stasni assigned to protect him and he was also protected by La Deuxieme Bureau,  France's equivalent to he CIA and the KGB. He made a fortunate using his protection to smuggle heroin and hash hish from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria out to Marseilles, France and on to New York City.

DeGaulle cultivated Arafat to get French contracts. Arafat was in fact chosen to head the PLO because his drug caravans gave him contacts in all Arab states.

The PLO was always an umbrella organization of loosely knit terror cells with only one thing in common, their hatred of Israel. Arafat was a myth created by the Western media because it was too difficult to figure out who was leader of all the cells in the PLO network. The leaders and their alliances would change constantly.

Hamas was a Muslim Brotherhood creation. It was not affiliated with the Mullah of Jerusalem and his Palestinian nationals and it was that Mullah who lived as a guest of Hitler during WW2 and after the war fled to Iraq and had picked the Egyptian, Yasir Arafat to head the Palestinian national movement. In fact the Muslim Brotherhood wished nothing to do with Arafat because it was well known he was a homosexual and selling drugs both not things religious Muslims would tolerate.

If you lived in the Middle East you would be well aware of all this. The alliances between Muslim factions both extreme and semi moderate were always and have always changed.

The only thing that kept the Muslim world unified for years was Israel. That was the only thing they could all agree on, i.e., hating. Now that's not the case. The civil war between Shiites and Sunnis delayed for about 50 years by its mutual hatred of Israel has now refocused on each other.

The reason for that is that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan,  and the UAE saw Iran financing Muslim militants designed to cause civil wars and overthrow their governments. Lebanon became the first theatre of civil war between Shiite and Sunni. In fact Syria is 90% Sunni. A tiny sect of Muslims not even considered Muslims by the Sunnis, the Alawites which Assad and his predecessor father were from, used an alliance with the Shiites in Lebanon, the Hezbolllah, created by Iran, to prop their power. The Alawites are a mystic sect and if the Shiites didn't have the Sunnis even more and find them a useful prop, they would have wiped them out.

I can tell you the only true alliances Israel has ever had in the Middle East is with Beduins, Druze, Kurds, Berbers, Coptic Christians, and the Bahaiis. It has made mutual relartions with all these groups and Druze and Beduin have fought for Israel. Assyrian Christian and Coptic Christians do not consider Israel their enemy and they have been targeted in Syria and Egypt by extremist Muslims. Bahaiis were targeted for death in Iran accused of being Zionist collaborators because their head Temple is in Haifa. The Bahaiis are pacifists and do not side with anyone. Israel has always supported the Kurds because they have been targeted for genocide by Iran, Turkey and Iraq (Hussein) and when Hussein started gassing their villages to kill thousands at once, Israel morally said, it could not stand by and watch Kurds be gassed to death.

Turkey turned on Israel when Israel openly commemorated the Armenian genocide by Turkey.

Within the Sunni Muslim sects they have hatred for Ismaili and Ammidyah Muslims and other smaller sects and do not conside Shiites true Muslims and the Shiites feel the same way in reverse.

There is no constant theme of alliances in the Middle East. They change every day. Today's enemy is tomorrow's ally is the next day's enemy again. Alliances come and go with the sand dunes.

Actually when you track most stories about Zionist Muslim alliances in invariably leads to one of two places, the Syrian Ministry of Communications or the Iranian government's propaganda branch.

The only supposed secret relations were with King Hussein who used to drive into Jerusalem and meet regularly with Golda Maer. As well the King of Morrocco for years acted as a liaison to he Arab world to Israel.

Israel allied with Hamas. Uh no. That comes from the same place as Zionists were allied with Hitler. Horseshit false stories, all debunked and traced to Russian or Syrian-Iranian sources.

The thing is though, the scripts continue. They get recycled on the internet fueled by no Nazi groups the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, all who have  vested interest in inciting distrust between Muslims and hatred of Israel.

 

Some of your recollection of history in the middle east is misrepresented and fabricated at best....For example, kurds in Iran have the same rights as Persians. The mass killing of them in 1988 in halabja is something the west should be ashamed of for selling to Saddam. But ofcourse rue you conveniently changed that to suit your agenda accusing iran of genocide against kurds...that's utter nonesense!

your coming on this forum is to diss Iran because like a true zionist like Bibi that suits your agenda. You are hell bent to stick you di@k in everything that concerns Iran....

but ofcourse that's someone like you will do....baiting the fish from the muddy water and let Israel get all the credit. Is there any wonder why a zionist like yourself will say anything bad about Israel...!?!? Go on call me an anti semitic. Knock yourself out! You have done a pretty miserable job of accusing half the members here the same...

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by kactus