Topaz Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 IF it wasn't so important back in 1996, why is it important now? Of course, the Tories are doing what they do best, personal attacks to stop voters from giving Jack the PMO. Most Canadians know the ways of the Tories and it ain't going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I'd really like to know what establishment he was at, and what kind of place it really is. Google Street View It's really hard not to infer something, based on an establishment of that appearance. Especially from a city councilor who by rights ought to know what sorts of neighborhoods contain what sort of business. Be interesting to see if the factual history of the place ever gets confirmed. And if Kenneth Starr is working for the sun. [/sarcasm] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 IF it wasn't so important back in 1996, why is it important now? Of course, the Tories are doing what they do best, personal attacks to stop voters from giving Jack the PMO. Most Canadians know the ways of the Tories and it ain't going to work. I think it shows the level of fear among Tory supporters like betsy. They're willing to sacrifice even a modicum of fair play in the final stretch if they think it will give the Tories some advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Indeed. Layton was caught (not accused of any illegal act, not arrested) in a massage parlour which the police suspected of being a bawdy house. The facts at hand indicate that he was, at most, careless in is choice of a place where to get a massage. The aricle indicated that the cops were looking for UNDERAGED prostitutes in that establishment! That implies that the bawdy house may not just be a common bawdy house but may be dealing with far more sinister operations such as slave trade or human trafficking! Organized crime syndicate may ve been involved....and as the cops pointed out to jack, he may've placed himself as a target for black-mail! Imagine the cops...LECTURING this councillor...to possibility that he could've placed himself -and his office for that matter - to blackmail scenario! Careless. Reckless. Keep in mind that he was already in politics at the time - a councillor - and married to an asian - which means he shouldn't have been that naive! Carelessness. Recklessness. That puts a question as to his skills at decision-making, especially when the possibility is real that he could be the next Prime Minister! There are actually judicial inquiries into allegations that Berlusconi has retained the services a prostitutes. The prostitute (?) was allegedly UNDERAGED at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 IF it wasn't so important back in 1996, why is it important now? Of course, the Tories are doing what they do best, personal attacks to stop voters from giving Jack the PMO. Most Canadians know the ways of the Tories and it ain't going to work. I personnally doubt that the hand of either the Liberal or the Conservative Party is behind the release of this information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 University are very homogenous politically. Particularly with respect to their opposition to the CPC and what they view as conservatism. Even if that were true, which it isn't, what does that have to do with the "level of thought" shown by university students that say they're voting for Layton's winning smile? You're implying university students are idiots that can't think for themselves. What I'm saying is that university students are not a homogenous group. In fact, there are student groups and clubs for every political party on just about every campus, so broadbrushing them only makes the person making that accusation look like an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 It's really hard not to infer something, based on an establishment of that appearance. You're right. It even includes a dentist. Ewww... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) How is it inappropriate? Instead of just giving emotional outburst, you ought to explain! Never mind my Christian values or my faith....I don't think you're in a position to know much about that. Let me worry about that, after all it's me who'll answer to my God when the time comes, not you. Just stick to the discussion. We're on federal politics. Because getting a massage in a licensed establishment is not the same thing as having sex with children. Why do you need that spelled out? What the hell is wrong with you? Edited April 30, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 IF it wasn't so important back in 1996, why is it important now? Of course, the Tories are doing what they do best, personal attacks to stop voters from giving Jack the PMO. Most Canadians know the ways of the Tories and it ain't going to work. The left has no problem smearing Harper with things that may have happened in the 90's, but when they get even a little bit of it back in the media they turn around and blame Conservatives. Funny how that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nittanylionstorm07 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 But listen. Did the opponent destroy you, or did you destroy yourself?? Some things are meaningless and forgivable (like the Malik thing that happened in BC, someone getting screened out of a meeting because of a facebook pic. A trip to Las Vegas. Overall that doesn't hold much weight and the average voter doesn't know these small things are care). Some things in politics are 'major' that spread to everyone into politics or not and not forgivable (Denying the Holocaust, being in the KKK, committing murder, child abuse, and of course: possibly having sex with possibly teenage, illegal sex workers in a massage parlor and being caught NAKED by police during a freaking RAID!!) As soon as I heard the story, I ran and told my brother right away and word of mouth will spread on this one. And I only do that if it's a MAJOR story like a tsunami or terrorist attack. The Layton store is Grade A top headline news that deserves live coverage and front page news. The media is cheering on the Liberals and want Layton's head. I can tell by the interviewing the press are doing on Layton. The story doesn't have a lot of time to develop though over the weekend. However the press won't let it go. Our newspapers and TV media are too mickey mouse to drive the story where it should be. You only think that because you are a right-wing extremist who wasn't going to vote for the NDP anyways. So what good did this story do now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Good question. I,ve checked the Websites of both SunTV and the Toronto Sun (that's where the story orginated from), and they do not say a thing about the police notes stating the woman was naked. If it was in there, I'd like to see a quote. Nothing I've read has said anything about the woman being naked either, and I've looked. I've tried hard to find it. Seems odd in light of all the "Layton Naked!" press out there that they would simply chose to bypass her being naked too. Knowing what they were, he should have chosen the place where he got that massage more carefully. But that's it. And unless the police met regarly with city council to inform them of where they've found bawdy house, I doubt very much that Layton knew as a fact which massage parlours were bawdy houses. How could he have chosen the place more carefully? If that's the case, since it was licensed by the city, shouldn't the city have chosen who they license more carefully?Shouldn't the city be held to the same criticism? The police hadn't declared this establishment "a bawdy house," or I doubt if it would have still been licensed. Being questionable and/or under investigation doesn't mean it was a bawdy house, or that they knew it was and had declared it as such, and I'm guessing the police don't inform the city council of all of their suspicions regarding every issue they have to deal with. Furthermore, I'm guessing that it would run the possibility of running interference with their investigations if they were to do so. I'm sure a lot of times they want to keep their information as confidential as possible until after they have dealt with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Google Street View It's really hard not to infer something, based on an establishment of that appearance. Especially from a city councilor who by rights ought to know what sorts of neighborhoods contain what sort of business. Be interesting to see if the factual history of the place ever gets confirmed. And if Kenneth Starr is working for the sun. [/sarcasm] I would like to change my stance on this story. Jack is an idiot. Who gets a massage at a dentist's office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) This man can be Canadas next PM and he's found naked lying in a bed. What sort of example is this man setting? This is an outrage!!!!! What do we have here--- :lol: an Italian PM? :lol: Sure Jack(or is that word only 1/2 finished? What happens if he goes back after being elected L O T Opposition? Maybe it's a free Massage Edited April 30, 2011 by Tilter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 The aricle indicated that the cops were looking for UNDERAGED prostitutes in that establishment! That implies that the bawdy house may not just be a common bawdy house but may be dealing with far more sinister operations such as slave trade or human trafficking! Organized crime syndicate may ve been involved....and as the cops pointed out to jack, he may've placed himself as a target for black-mail! Imagine the cops...LECTURING this councillor...to possibility that he could've placed himself -and his office for that matter - to blackmail scenario! Careless. Reckless. Keep in mind that he was already in politics at the time - a councillor - and married to an asian - which means he shouldn't have been that naive! Carelessness. Recklessness. That puts a question as to his skills at decision-making, especially when the possibility is real that he could be the next Prime Minister! The prostitute (?) was allegedly UNDERAGED at the time. You obviously don't get it, do you. One man was not careful enough in seeking where to get a therapeutic massage. SIXTEEN YEAR AGO. And there is nothing to indicate that he did not learn his lesson. The other one is the object of a criminal investigation into alleged criminal acts. That you insist on equating the two only demonstrates that you do not know what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 The police hadn't declared this establishment "a bawdy house," or I doubt if it would have still been licensed. Being questionable and/or under investigation doesn't mean it was a bawdy house, or that they knew it was and had declared it as such Another thing that is not mentioned in here is that these clinics are typically privately owned, yet their services tend to be covered by health insurance and whatnot. Forget the latter, but the former is important. The following is anecdotal, but I have no doubt in my mind that it probably happens everywhere. I have a friend who went through classes to become a registered massage therapists. She doesn't give rub and tugs and she's not a prostitute. In fact, it infuriates her when people even suggest such a stupid thing and "customers" have been thrown out and banned from the place she works for even suggesting that she do anything remotely sexual. Guess what. Her establishment was raided on a number of occasions. In some cases it was false claims made by men that thought it was one of "those" places and couldn't get their "happy endings". Hell hath no fury like a John scorned apparently. In other cases, it was other licensed establishments trying to destroy the reputation of other places, so that they could get more customers. So, there are numerous reasons police raid massage parlours. If this place wasn't shut down and nobody was charged, then I highly doubt the inferences of the article are even remotely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Another thing that is not mentioned in here is that these clinics are typically privately owned, yet their services tend to be covered by health insurance and whatnot. Forget the latter, but the former is important. The following is anecdotal, but I have no doubt in my mind that it probably happens everywhere. I have a friend who went through classes to become a registered massage therapists. She doesn't give rub and tugs and she's not a prostitute. In fact, it infuriates her when people even suggest such a stupid thing and "customers" have been thrown out and banned from the place she works for even suggesting that she do anything remotely sexual. Guess what. Her establishment was raided on a number of occasions. In some cases it was false claims made by men that thought it was one of "those" places and couldn't get their "happy endings". Hell hath no fury like a John scorned apparently. In other cases, it was other licensed establishments trying to destroy the reputation of other places, so that they could get more customers. So, there are numerous reasons police raid massage parlours. If this place wasn't shut down and nobody was charged, then I highly doubt the inferences of the article are even remotely true. Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Betsy, Layton's judgment can be easily decimated with his own words. We don't need to use allegations of sexual immorality to illustrate that. Want to criticize his naivety? Examine his absurd promises. Want to criticize his lack of understanding of basic economic? Continue examining his absurd promises. Want to criticize his approach to crime? I'm sure we can find examples of him harping on with rhetoric about "rehabilitation" and "compassion". The point is that Layton provides plenty of fodder against him with his own words. You go ahead and concentrate on the other fodder. I've got something to say and I'm gonna say it! After all, this isn't China...yet. There are certainly very few threads in here that really scrutinize the stupidity of Layton and his supporters. Rather, there are many more thread discussing superficial soundbytes and premature allegations - this thread being an example of that. I don't think this is "premature" allegation - whatever that means! Chow:Olivia Chow, Layton's wife, denied her husband had done anything wrong in an e-mail statement late Friday night. "Sixteen years ago, my husband went for a massage at a massage clinic that is registered with the City of Toronto," Chow wrote. "He exercises regularly; he was and remains in great shape; and he needed a massage. "I knew about this appointment, as I always do." Olivia Chow confirmed that she knew about this appointment! So that places Jack on the scene, as admitted by his wife! As to the real nature of his visit to the establishment....that's another story. And I don't care to know whether it's for sex or just pure massage. My problem is about the naivete' and stupidity in judgement that a councillor exercised in going to this place. You want a message or sex, go for it....just don't place yourself - and your office - in jeopardy! Edited April 30, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I doubt very much that Layton knew as a fact which massage parlours were bawdy houses. A massage "parlour", is a bawdy house. If he says he didn't do anything, I believe him. If he says he didn't know it was that kind of place though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I don't know how this story came out exactly, but obviously the newspaper got it from the horse's mouth! The cop who talked to Layton! Why did it come out just now? Who knows maybe one of those people who worked in the Police Department at the time felt compelled to bring this out now ....because they too got scared of an NDP-led government! Read the article. In the interview with the Sun, the officer said: "I asked him for his wallet and I looked at his name and I looked at the last name and it looked familiar. The police had to decide what to do with the controversial councillor. "To have arrested him and charged him would have served our egos a lot more. Layton was a thorn in the side of the police, siding with the anti-poverty movement in '96 or '97 ... Jack was anti-police," the ex-cop said. "We looked at it and thought do we take advantage of this, or do we look at this like (he's) any other person, put it away and we hope this thing dies a slow death." The officers said police filled out a suspect investigation card that recorded his name, address, date of birth -- July 18, 1950 -- height and weight. That information would be filed away by a civilian administrator for crime analysts to use in tracking criminals with particular attributes. The former cop is surprised it took so long for the incident to become public. "This stuff was never leaked out back then. The professionalism was outstanding. I thought this would have come out. This thing within the circle was so well known." The policemen warned the councillor about the dangers of hanging out in suspected bawdy houses that could be run by Asian triads. "I remembered lecturing him on a lot of these triads, they'd videotape the customers and extort them afterwards. Jack went pale. I said to him you have to understand it's quite possible," he says. http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/29/layton-found-in-toronto-bawdy-house-former-cop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 My problem is about the naivete' and stupidity in judgement that a councillor exercised in going to this place. You want a message or sex, go for it....just don't place yourself - and your office - in jeopardy! Unless, of course, it wasn't a bawdy house, in which case he didn't even use poor judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 A massage "parlour", is a bawdy house. Massage clinic. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Are you saying that before this potential scandal broke you thought highly of Layton's judgment? My opinion of Layton was already well-established long before this story came out. And that opinion is unaffected by the possibility of these adulterous escapades. Layton is ridiculous with or without prostitution allegations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I don't know how this story came out exactly, but obviously the newspaper got it from the horse's mouth! The cop who talked to Layton! There has been allegations, on this website and not supported by anything reported in the press, that Layton was caught having sex with an underage girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 The left has no problem smearing Harper with things that may have happened in the 90's, but when they get even a little bit of it back in the media they turn around and blame Conservatives. Funny how that works.That was my thought too.If somebody had a picture of Stephen Harper smoking a joint or wearing a Hallowe'en cop costume in 1996, it would be all over the media. I was also non-plussed that the NDP used Olivia Chow to defuse this so-called scandal. I wonder how she felt about that but then again, the taste of power makes many things palatable. ---- Politics is rough and tumble. Layton and the NDP have had a free-ride for too long. We may soon have front row seats to the comedy amateur hour when the NDP forms the official opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Unless, of course, it wasn't a bawdy house, in which case he didn't even use poor judgment. I still think it looks like he should have been more careful in his choice of a place to get a massage. But even then - that was 16 years ago and there is nothing to indicate that he didn't learn from this experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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