Guest American Woman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) I don't think this is "premature" allegation - whatever that means! Olivia Chow confirmed that she knew about this appointment! So that places Jack on the scene, as admitted by his wife! So far nothing wrong. His wife puts him at the scene of a licensed massage parlor having a massage. Perfectly legal. As to the real nature of his visit to the establishment....that's another story. We're also getting down to the nature of the "'premature' allegations." And I don't care to know whether it's for sex or just opure massage. You should care to know, since that's what the police were investigating regarding the establishment. My problem is about the naivete' and stupidity in judgement that a councillor exercised in going to this place. You want a message or sex, go for it....just don't place yourself - and your office - in jeopardy! Please show how it was "stupid" and naive" for him to have chosen that particular place. What evidence was out there that he should have known about before hand? Evidence that makes him "stupid" and "naive" for not knowing about it? Edited April 30, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) I still think it looks like he should have been more careful in his choice of a place to get a massage. But even then - that was 16 years ago and there is nothing to indicate that he didn't learn from this experience. If that story came out earlier, I don't think Layton would've become the Leader of the NDP. Now it's been dugged up. Look what else got dugged up concerning other leaders. That's politics nowadays. It's hard for any politicians now when their every move....including stupid online post made when they were still teeners.... could be used against them. It's been done to Harper, and being done as to his past comments when he was a young man. Edited April 30, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If that story came out earlier, I don't think Layton would've become the Leader of the NDP. You think that most people in the NDP would care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 A bunch of threads on this same topic were merged together and a poll was eliminated as part of that merge. Do not open up an other thread on this same topic. Ch. A. mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) You think that most people in the NDP would care? If they're serious about ever getting into power....why wouldn't they? You think they'll choose him as their leader if that came out then? He'll have that baggage... Edited April 30, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If they're serious about ever getting into power....why wouldn't they? They're social liberals. The ones who care only do so because they're feminists. The rest don't want society dictating personal behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 A bunch of threads on this same topic were merged together and a poll was eliminated as part of that merge. Do not open up an other thread on this same topic. Ch. A. mod Ach! What a disgrace to us all that there was any thread at all about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 They're social liberals. The ones who care only do so because they're feminists. The rest don't want society dictating personal behaviour. Most importantly, most people would have seen this as unimportant, which it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Ach! What a disgrace to us all that there was any thread at all about it. But the entertainment value, the entertainment value... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Most importantly, most people would have seen this as unimportant, which it is. That too, since this isn't really even about prostitution. Edited April 30, 2011 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Please show how it was "stupid" and naive" for him to have chosen that particular place. What evidence was out there that he should have known about before hand? Evidence that makes him "stupid" and "naive" for not knowing about it?If you know anything about Vancouver or Toronto then you will know that there are a class of massage parlours run by Triads which are well known fronts for prostitution. There is a constant battle between police and these parlours and they are a headache for city officials. Everything I have read about the massage parlour in question is that it was obviously suspect and a city councillor like Layton should have known.At this point I take him at his word that he is innocent but I think the "stupid and naive" label is appropriate. Edited April 30, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukin Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Every pro-athlete on any sports team better watch themselves for all that criminal behaviour that goes on in the locker-room with their paid trainers. Good grief. Absolutely ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If they're serious about ever getting into power....why wouldn't they? You think they'll choose him as their leader if that came out then? He'll have that baggage... The "baggage" of having been in the wrong place at the wrong time engaging something totally legal? The horror! Hopefully the NDP is more intelligent than that and assumes that the Canadian voters at large are more intelligent than that also. I can't imagine this non-issue making a difference in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If you know anything about Vancouver or Toronto there are a class of massage palours run by Triads which are well known fronts for prostitution. There is a constant battle between police and these palours and they are a headache for city officals. Everything I have read about the massage palour in question is that it was obviously suspect and a city counceller like Layton should have known. Could you please provide links to what you've read that shows that please? -- Links that show back in '96, before the police raid, that this massage parlor was a well known front for prostitution? At this point I take him at his word that he is innocent but I think the "stupid and naive" is appropriate. Again, please show evidence that he should have known this particular parlor was under suspicion. And please explain, if it were a well known front for prostitution, why it still maintained its license. I'd really like to know if the city of Toronto knowingly licenses establishments that are fronts for prostitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Now Layton is involved with the Triads! It must be true! His wife is Asian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Will be interesting to see the analysis on Tuesday morning. I still believe that the NDP support is soft, and that they will no score nearly as high as what the polls indicate (still high enough to be the Official Opposition though). But, even though the "scandal" will have little (if any) impact on the final results, you can bet that some analysis will use it as an explanation if the NDP vote is not as high as what the polls indicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 The "baggage" of having been in the wrong place at the wrong time engaging something totally legal? The horror!There is really no difference between this and the "scandal" of Bruce Carson. In this situation you had a person with a criminal past that did some work for the PMO. The opposition did their best to tar Harper and imply he was somehow a criminal because this guy had a dubious past. IOW, I can have some sympathy for Layton because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time but he did not give Harper the benefit of the doubt on the Carson issue. He talked about how it showed that Harper had 'bad judgement'. What goes around comes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Could you please provide links to what you've read that shows that please?As I mentioned before: all of the legitimate massage therapists I know if operate out of places that look like doctors offices and they tend to be older and unattractive. A place with Chinese signs employing young immigrent women is automatically suspect if you are familiar with the areas where these palours appear.And please explain, if it were a well known front for prostitution, why it still maintained its license. I'd really like to know if the city of Toronto knowingly licenses establishments that are fronts for prostitution.They don't. As I said it is a constant battle because they cannot be closed down unless the police can prove that illegal activities are taking place which is why there was a police raid. Edited April 30, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 apples and oranges.Only because this one involves the Layton instead everyone's favorite bugbear: Steven Harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Only because this one involves the Layton instead everyone's favorite bugbear: Steven Harper. Nope. It,s because one case involves a lack of due carefulness in seeking a perfectly legal service of a private nature (a mssage). The other case involves lack of due carefulness in political dealings with a man who had a criminal past and may have been using illegal and/or unethical methods in his dealings with government. Edited April 30, 2011 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davejack Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Didn't know sexual acts were performed? Wet kleenex in her hand? I'm sure she was blowing his nose, and Clinton didn't inhale. What a sleaze! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Only because this one involves the Layton instead everyone's favorite bugbear: Steven Harper. Trust me. If it were Harper instead of Layton, it would be just as much a non-issue; and focusing on it, making something more out of it, would be just as ludicrous. People on both sides do the same thing, make the same kind of accusations based on nothing, and therein lies the sorry state of politics/elections in our countries today. Edited April 30, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Didn't know sexual acts were performed? Wet kleenex in her hand? I'm sure she was blowing his nose, and Clinton didn't inhale. What a sleaze! Let's say it's true that she did have a wet Kleenex in her hand for argument's sake. You honestly believe any time someone is in possession of a wet Kleenex that it was to wipe off the remains of sexual acts?? Good Lord. Her hands could have been greasy from massage oils or she could have been blowing her nose or who knows what. All I know is I have Kleenex in my house, and I don't buy it for sexual purposes. In fact, when you get right down to it, a towel is generally more effective along those lines. As for Clinton, who the hell cares if he inhaled or not? That's as much a non-issue as this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Didn't know sexual acts were performed? Wet kleenex in her hand? I'm sure she was blowing his nose, and Clinton didn't inhale. What a sleaze! If he was involved in an illegal sexual act, how come he wasn't arrested? Don't serve the "he was a politician" line. The cops themselves wrote that they were well aware that Layton was considered anti-cop. I do not think that they would have hesitated one second to lay charges on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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