RNG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If they are employing young Asian women as massages then it is a shady establishment. The legitimate massage therapists I know are 30+ and not that attractive. Plus having enough muscles to play middle linebacker for the Argos. (And would probably do better than your past few.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) I've asked another poster, are you accusing the Conservative Party of Canada of slander, in relation to the Sun storey? The Conservatives have nothing to do with that riding and the garbage that goes on downtown Toronto. This definitely has Liberal all over it as they are the largest political institution by far (although not doing well this last while). The Liberal's know all, and see all. Layton and his wife already had the allegations ready to go so they were expecting it. I'm watching Ignatieff on TV CPAC right now asking the media to 'put a microscope on Layton' and then he said 'they've come after me, my wife, my life' etc etc. And then he asked again that people look at Layton so he could have known the story was going to break. There's a GREAT audio book you can download where they talk about all the behind the scenes during elections and how the stories are dug up. The audio book is called 'Guilty: Liberal "Victims" and Their Assault on America'. She goes into detail about how the left always go into divorce records, dig up dirt on their opponents, and then say that they're being treated unfairly when they are criticized. They use the media to aid and embed them in this. You name any sludge throwing from an election, and she proves it's almost always democrats that dig up the dirt. NOT Republicans. Edited April 30, 2011 by mikedavid00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpio Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 You name any sludge throwing from an election, and she proves it's almost always democrats that dig up the dirt. NOT Republicans. Guess you've never heard of Watergate, Lee Atwater or Karl Rove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If violating copyright laws and media gag orders resulted in users being banned, you might want to watch what you say. He's a public figure so there is no libel. You can say what you like in this *FREE* country (well figuratively speaking). He was caught nude. In a TORONTO massage parlor. By police. In a RAID. Sex happens at these parlors. People do not attend parlors just once. So yes I do think in MY opinion he was having reckless sex with illegal prostitutes. Actually you should study your left wing fascist Mousilini who slept with thousands of women and considered every woman in Italy his girlfriend. There's something with the far left and weird sex habits. Even here on the forum when people bring up immigrants, the far left always come out and make statements about having sex with all the ethnic women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 You have links? I have been waiting to see what the official response will be from the other parties. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/decision-canada/responds+Layton+massage+visit+allegations/4701230/story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 So that's a possibility. But surely the newspapers would know the difference between a legitimate therapeutic massage clinic and the Kowloon Bay Lucky Best Wish Happy Ending Massage House. Surely something like that would have blown up badly. And if it had been the police attempting to "get" Layton, surely they wouldn't have let him bicycle away with just a "warning". Something doesn't sound right. I'd really like to know what establishment he was at, and what kind of place it really is. -k The "newspapers", or rather the responsible media with a sense of journalistic integrity are being very hedgy about this, and for good reason. If this turns out to be Layton just getting a massage, rather than the clear insinuations that Sun is making, they could be on the hook for significant lawsuits, and more to the point, they would have damaged someone's reputation without cause. The real press loves a good scandal as much as anyone else, but knows enough to temper claims appropriately until the evidence falls out. A good reporter knows that sometimes a scandal was too good (or bad) to be true. In this case, we have the official record basically saying Layton gave his name and address and sent on his way, with no legal ramifications whatsoever and apparently no scandal at the time. Then suddenly, sixteen years later, literally almost on the eve of potentially the biggest win by the NDP in its entire history, a cop with a grudge, a so far uncorroborated notebook shows up at an entertainment network pretending to be a news station and, apparently without any actual investigation, publish said cop's claims. What's more, this entertainment network has some very close ties to the Tories, who at this point can only be helped by their now major competitor's leader being smeared by a prostitution scandal. I don't think you have to be a schizophrenic UFO conspiracy theorist to see that there is a serious problem with this whole story. And the real evil of it all, and I don't think I'm exaggerating, is that even if Sun, the cop, and the malicious trolls on various web forums like MLW, are ultimately sued for defamation, the damage may have already been done. This is dirty tricks, folks, and while I can't claim to be Layton or the NDP's biggest fan, I find it all disgusting. I am absolutely appalled at the behavior of some of the posters here, and cannot express in such a forum my absolute disgust at their actions and their absolute lack of honor, ethics or morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Mr. C, are you serious? And I bet Olivia is going to hang a lickin' on that dude if it's true. She's already quite the enabler on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 All this is, is American style dirt that was dug up by the Liberals and then leaked to the a right wing media source to make it look like it was the conservatives. This is nothing new. It's old hat tricks. The conservatives would not have access to the sources around Layton to get this kind of dirt. Only the Libs have the deep enough roots and connections to get that kind of dirt. The mainstream media in Canada are too 'mickey mouse' to treat this as the real story it should be treated as. This should be a red alert, front page story. However, it's obvious our media is going to bury the story and try their best to keep it quiet because that's how we do things here in Canada. The facial ad didn't do much. It's not a real issue to sway voters. People understand that it was a mistake. But I'm telling you, THIS. A sex scandal is like a 9/10 of a WOW story for the media. The only thing bigger than a sex scandal is a child abuse scandal. That is the largest. But a sex in a bathhouse illegal prostitution. Wow.. that is FRONT PAGE NEWS BABY! 9/10 story. If this was in the US, the candidate would step down immediately. If I was running a newspaper It would be a massive front page story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Also both the Liberals and the Tories have done their best Pontius Pilatus impersonation....they want nothing to do with it. I haven't seen any actual responses from the other parties. I can well imagine that none of the other campaigns are going to want to touch this, because it has the potential to damage them if the voters decide this is indeed a smear campaign. Beyond that, and despite a few staffers and campaign workers of the thuggish low-brow variety probably cheering it on, I imagine as much as the Harper and Ignatieff teams may be rattled or terrified by the sudden NDP explosion, and will bend the rules of decent debate as any politician will, this sort of thing goes quite beyond the pale. If you even tacitly approve of it, you never know if some event in your own past, innocuous and innocent, might be used by an opponent to destroy you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 There are far better ways to burnish a leadership reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Then suddenly, sixteen years later, literally almost on the eve of potentially the biggest win by the NDP in its entire historyI see some claims that the story surfaced 5 years ago and was ignored. I have not been able to find corraboration.As for the timing: the entire story of this election campaign is how everyone underestimated Jack - from the media to his opponents. If there is dirt on Jack we would expect it to surfacing about now - a week after it became clear he is a threat. None of this negates the validity of anything you said. Edited April 30, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I see some claims that the story surfaced 5 years ago and was ignored. I have not been able to find collaboration. As for the timing: the entire story of this election campaign is how everyone underestimated Jack - from the media to his opponents. If there is dirt on Jack we would expect it to surfacing about now - a week after it became clear he is a threat. None of this negates the validity of anything you said. Jack just wasn't important until about 10 days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 The "newspapers", or rather the responsible media with a sense of journalistic integrity are being very hedgy about this, and for good reason. If this turns out to be Layton just getting a massage, rather than the clear insinuations that Sun is making, they could be on the hook for significant lawsuits, and more to the point, they would have damaged someone's reputation without cause. The real press loves a good scandal as much as anyone else, but knows enough to temper claims appropriately until the evidence falls out. A good reporter knows that sometimes a scandal was too good (or bad) to be true. In this case, we have the official record basically saying Layton gave his name and address and sent on his way, with no legal ramifications whatsoever and apparently no scandal at the time. Then suddenly, sixteen years later, literally almost on the eve of potentially the biggest win by the NDP in its entire history, a cop with a grudge, a so far uncorroborated notebook shows up at an entertainment network pretending to be a news station and, apparently without any actual investigation, publish said cop's claims. What's more, this entertainment network has some very close ties to the Tories, who at this point can only be helped by their now major competitor's leader being smeared by a prostitution scandal. I don't think you have to be a schizophrenic UFO conspiracy theorist to see that there is a serious problem with this whole story. And the real evil of it all, and I don't think I'm exaggerating, is that even if Sun, the cop, and the malicious trolls on various web forums like MLW, are ultimately sued for defamation, the damage may have already been done. This is dirty tricks, folks, and while I can't claim to be Layton or the NDP's biggest fan, I find it all disgusting. I am absolutely appalled at the behavior of some of the posters here, and cannot express in such a forum my absolute disgust at their actions and their absolute lack of honor, ethics or morality. I agree with most of your sentiments Toadbrother on the entire Sun storey, but as a member of the Conservative Party of Canada I’d encourage any other posters, that implying any involvement by the CPC in the reporting of the Sun storey, is just as wrong as the original storey, possibly implying any wrong doing on the part of Jack Layton. I’d suggest the topic be dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 In this case, we have the official record basically saying Layton gave his name and address and sent on his way, with no legal ramifications whatsoever and apparently no scandal at the time. Then suddenly, sixteen years later, literally almost on the eve of potentially the biggest win by the NDP in its entire history, a cop with a grudge, a so far uncorroborated notebook shows up at an entertainment network pretending to be a news station and, apparently without any actual investigation, publish said cop's claims. To play devil's advocate... the story has been substantially corroborated by none other than Olivia Chow. From what I'm reading she's not disputing that Jack was at a massage parlor that was raided by police, her objection to the story is that the massage parlor was a legitimate clinic and that nothing inappropriate was going on. And, to further play devil's advocate, why doesn't she name the establishment he was at? That would be a surefire way to put an end to speculation as to what sort of place he was actually at. Saying that he was at "a registered clinic" seems a little coy to me. I suspect that this is probably just what you say it is. However, I think that now that this question has arisen, Layton should put an end to speculation by stating the name of the establishment he was at. Is that unreasonable? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I am a conservative and you are an embarrassment to conservatives. I support the Conservatives during this election and hope they win. However, I am no CPC member. I'm a Libertarian that believes in personal freedoms and direct democracy. You just want tote party lines and bury your head in the sand when a story pops up that doesn't make you feel good. The Laton prostitution sex scandal is something very serious. Something not to joke about. And is a front page news story. Here is a man in a message parlor, NAKED, in a police raid, while in public office. Then his wife CONFIRMS the story and gives it credibility. You then say that I am a disgrace to the CPC rather than look at Jack himself. The party that is pro legalization of prostitutes and protecting their rights. See you are the part of the problem in Canada. You refuse to punish people for BAD BEHAVIOUR. Don't blame me, don't blame the CPC, don't blame mapleleafweb, BLAME JACK. DON'T AWARD BAD BEHAVIOR. PUNISH IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 To play devil's advocate... the story has been substantially corroborated by none other than Olivia Chow. From what I'm reading she's not disputing that Jack was at a massage parlor that was raided by police, her objection to the story is that the massage parlor was a legitimate clinic and that nothing inappropriate was going on. And, to further play devil's advocate, why doesn't she name the establishment he was at? That would be a surefire way to put an end to speculation as to what sort of place he was actually at. Saying that he was at "a registered clinic" seems a little coy to me. I suspect that this is probably just what you say it is. However, I think that now that this question has arisen, Layton should put an end to speculation by stating the name of the establishment he was at. Is that unreasonable? -k All this stuff goes without saying. You don't even have to think it through. The voters aren't dumb and know what really happened. His wife should not have confirmed the story. If they were smart they should have denied but they think they're going to play the victim card. That's fine and dandy, but not for something like this. Remember a sex scandal is a huge, huge thing made even bigger when it involves prostitution in establishments. We just don't have the 'attitude' here to make it into the story it deserves to be. Once an immigrant co worker of mine from Pakistan told me that he went to a message parlor once and went into details. I was friends with him for a good long time. After that though, I never thought the same of him and honestly thought lower of him. Same with Layton. I'll never see him the same again due to his prostitution habits I'm guessing he has. Layton for PM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If you even tacitly approve of it, you never know if some event in your own past, innocuous and innocent, might be used by an opponent to destroy you. But listen. Did the opponent destroy you, or did you destroy yourself?? Some things are meaningless and forgivable (like the Malik thing that happened in BC, someone getting screened out of a meeting because of a facebook pic. A trip to Las Vegas. Overall that doesn't hold much weight and the average voter doesn't know these small things are care). Some things in politics are 'major' that spread to everyone into politics or not and not forgivable (Denying the Holocaust, being in the KKK, committing murder, child abuse, and of course: possibly having sex with possibly teenage, illegal sex workers in a massage parlor and being caught NAKED by police during a freaking RAID!!) As soon as I heard the story, I ran and told my brother right away and word of mouth will spread on this one. And I only do that if it's a MAJOR story like a tsunami or terrorist attack. The Layton store is Grade A top headline news that deserves live coverage and front page news. The media is cheering on the Liberals and want Layton's head. I can tell by the interviewing the press are doing on Layton. The story doesn't have a lot of time to develop though over the weekend. However the press won't let it go. Our newspapers and TV media are too mickey mouse to drive the story where it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjandrew Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 In response to the original post: there are an ass load of totally normal massage parlors where being naked is totally normal. Well, you have a towel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 there are an ass load of totally normal massage parlors where being naked is totally normal. No there isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjandrew Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 No there isn't. You wear a towel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 You wear a towel. Stop the racism! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 In response to the original post: there are an ass load of totally normal massage parlors where being naked is totally normal. Well, you have a towel... And the towel is often loosened/unwrapped during the massage. It sounds as if there is no story here. Layton had a massage, which he doesn't deny, and it turns out it was at a questionable establishment. Big deal. It happens. Unless there was a sign outside the door saying the establishment was questionable, how was he to know? He gave the police his name and address, went home, and that was the end of it. Or at least it should have been. Evidently someone who has nothing to counter him with politically was worried enough to try to make something out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battletoads Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 While I don't think this will win layton any votes, I do think it will seriously negate the effect of any real criticism. Rather than an issue that will stick with most Canadians (ie: fiscal restraint) they've (and by they I mean the conservatives) decided to go full bore with a 16 year old non-incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Welp folks, that's it. Jack Layton is the next prime minister of Canada. The Liberals are going to suffer in PC like results from 1993. The Tories just lost all of their close ridings plus some. Politicians can be such idiots when they get so desperate. Layton Massage Parlour incident is not the same as the Chretien Paralysis attack. The first one is based on behaviour - or ethics, - while the latter is about the result of illness (or maybe physical defect), which is beyond a person's control. The way the ads made fun of Chretien's facial "defect" is what made the Tories lose.....for indeed not only were the ads in poor taste, but you have to question the seeming lack of compassion those ads suggest, which truly reflected badly on the Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) When will I see an ad of a naked Layton? Transparency and Openess of government...nothing to hide! Literally. Edited April 30, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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