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Layton found nude in massage parlour!


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The title of this thread is so ridiculous. This is literally smearing in forum-mode. Seriously, Layton can be much more easily and relevantly smeared with his own words, policies, and rhetoric. He's a socialist. All that needs to be done is to attack him for his ridiculous and destructive ideas. But of course the Canadian political consciousness isn't mature enough to do such a thing.

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If you think Canadian politics, whether it be statements from politicians or the discourse in our media, is somehow on a higher level than our American counterparts, you're just ignorant or delusional. Or perhaps biased.

Or perhaps you are. They aren't even remotely similar. I also consume a great deal of news media, from both countries. Hours a day, in fact.

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Well it's fairly clear that the Harper Conservatives and their media wing (Sun news) are now in a full blown smear campaign against Jack Layton.

I hope the Conservatives get exactly what they deserve...the same outcome that the smear campaign against Rob Ford produced..

On overwhelming rallying of voters turning on those who instigated the smear campaign and supporting the victim.

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Or perhaps you are. They aren't even remotely similar. I also consume a great deal of news media, from both countries. Hours a day, in fact.

So you're suggesting that Canadian media is more sophisticated, objective, or respectful than our American counterparts? I suspect you subscribe to the an exaggerated sense of Canadian distinction from America.

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Do you really think that if this were Stephen Harper there would not be a full blown smear campaign - really get a grip. The Star would be salivating over it along with posters - and that's part of it too.

I'm sure you're right about this double-standard in the anti-conservative Canadian media landscape. Still, does that mean that we should participate in this smear campaign against Layton? Maybe I'm wrong, but this story just reeks of sensationalism and politics. And as I've already said, even if it is true, I really don't care because I already despise Layton's politics. His personal life is of no interest to me.

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Guest American Woman

It's not his nakedness that's problematic about this. It's the reputation of the place where he was found.

I understand that the actual "issue," but to hear the responses/way it's being treated, it doesn't come across that way. His "nakedness" and the appropriateness of it in a massage parlor are obviously an issue with some. Furthermore, as I said, how was he to know the "reputation" if he weren't involved in the "questionable" activities? I'm sure that was information privy only to those involved in such activities, if it were indeed even going on. I would be willing to wager that there were many innocent clients who had no idea that the place was under watch/investigation. How would they know? What would have set it apart from another similar places? You hit the nail on the head, though: it's the reputation of the place he was found that's an issue, but some have turned it into an issue of his reputation, with absolutely nothing to go on. Heaven help any of us who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Do you really think that if this were Stephen Harper there would not be a full blown smear campaign - really get a grip.

I know I wouldn't care. You shouldn't either. Especially given the lack of evidence in this situation.

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So you're suggesting that Canadian media is more sophisticated, objective, or respectful than our American counterparts? I suspect you subscribe to the an exaggerated sense of Canadian distinction from America.

I'm suggesting that the level and the of discourse is different in Canada. If you don't see that, you're trying (for some reason) to exaggerate the legel of similarity between Canadians and Americans.

Birthers would be a tiny minority here. At one point a couple of weeks ago, they made up a majority of the Republican party. The people of a country drive the what they see in the media of a country. Canadian media is far more dry, and far more fact based. That excludes Sun News....but they aren't really news media.

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Guest American Woman

Didn't see anything in the article about the woman being naked...?

Ditto. Haven't read anything anywhere about the woman being naked. Seems as if the story grows seedier and seedier regardless of fact ..... as is all too often the case in such situations, and does a lot to diminish politics, imo.

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The way the ads made fun of Chretien's facial "defect" is what made the Tories lose.....for indeed not only were the ads in poor taste, but you have to question the seeming lack of compassion those ads suggest, which truly reflected badly on the Tories.

And this too will make the Tories lose. See the comparison now? :lol:

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Guest American Woman

Don't even think for a SECOND that politics in Canada are any better than in the USA. The same type of stupid focus we see from CNN and Fox News on non-issues is similar to what we see in Canadian media. Canadian politics are very inflammatory and infantile.

Not any better than ours, which isn't saying much. It's just that so often U.S. politics/elections are singled out, and it's obviously not any better in Canada.

I would say that the one advantage America has over Canada politically is its stronger conservative base which is rooted in principles of American national identity. Canada's more ambiguous national identity ("multiculturalism"), in my view, allows many ignorant Canadians to be seduced by utopian rhetoric from the left.

This is where we disagree. I don't see either country as having any "advantage" over the other in this regard; I'm speaking strictly of elections, scruples, and how low some will stoop. It's the same in both countries.

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I'm suggesting that the level and the of discourse is different in Canada. If you don't see that, you're trying (for some reason) to exaggerate the legel of similarity between Canadians and Americans.

Birthers would be a tiny minority here. At one point a couple of weeks ago, they made up a majority of the Republican party. The people of a country drive the what they see in the media of a country. Canadian media is far more dry, and far more fact based. That excludes Sun News....but they aren't really news media.

I can see that I'm dealing with someone who has a misplaced sense of Canadian superiority over America with respect to the nature of our political discourse. Do you really think it would take me more than two seconds to give you ten examples off the top of my head illustrating how stupid we are in Canada? Moreover, I was specifically talking about our media and our politicians as they compare to our neighbours down south.

As far as the "birthers", who cares? I'm sure a majority of NDPers would describe Harper as "fascistic" or "ultra-right-wing". The political discourse in Canada is more often than not depressing, juvenile, and simplistic. You and I clearly don't live on the same planet. Again, you've got a misplaced sense of Canadian superiority on this issue.

If you want to talk about media and politicians, go for it, but if you're going to suggest that the "birthers" are some sort of evidence of a higher level of Canadian sophistication with respect to our political discourse (any examination of the vitriol in the HoC should be enough to silence that claim), then there's not much point continuing this discussion.

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Not any better than ours, which isn't saying much. It's just that so often U.S. politics/elections are singled out, and it's obviously not any better in Canada.

This is where we disagree. I don't see either country as having any "advantage" over the other in this regard; I'm speaking strictly of elections, scruples, and how low some will stoop. It's the same in both countries.

In my humble opinion, the political discourse in Canada in all respects is just as infantile, disrespectful, dishonest, and stupid as in America. This is true across all avenues: media, politicians, political interest groups, and dinner tables.

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Guest American Woman

In my humble opinion, the political discourse in Canada in all respects is just as infantile, disrespectful, dishonest, and stupid as in America. This is true across all avenues: media, politicians, political interest groups, and dinner tables.

Then we are in complete agreement. :)

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I can see that I'm dealing with someone who has a misplaced sense of Canadian superiority over America with respect to the nature of our political discourse.

Now you're manufacturing things. i never said anything of the sort. i said the level was different. I don't agree with it, but if Americans don't mind, I don't really care. Our politics is different though ,by virtue of our history and culture. A lack of recognition of that on your part shows a certain cultural and political ignorance on your part.

Do you really think it would take me more than two seconds to give you ten examples off the top of my head illustrating how stupid we are in Canada? Moreover, I was specifically talking about our media and our politicians as they compare to our neighbours down south.

I don't really care how stupid you think we are. Our media and politics cannot be judged outside of the context of or Canadian society. The same goes for american politics and media.

As far as the "birthers", who cares? I'm sure a majority of NDPers would describe Harper as "fascistic" or "ultra-right-wing".

Those aren't even comparable things. You're reaching so far, your are going to pop out of their sockets.

The political discourse in Canada is more often than not depressing, juvenile, and simplistic. You and I clearly don't live on the same planet. Again, you've got a misplaced sense of Canadian superiority on this issue.

Im pretty sure we live on the same planet, I'm just not sure we live in the same reality.

If you want to talk about media and politicians, go for it, but if you're going to suggest that the "birthers" are some sort of evidence of a higher level of Canadian sophistication with respect to our political discourse (any examination of the vitriol in the HoC should be enough to silence that claim),

By all means, provide that evidence.

There are significant differences between the Commonwealth countries and the United States hen it comes to things like citizen government relationship and citizen media relationship. Though in both places news is a form of entertainment, in the United States, news has gone far more towards that. Infotainment has pretty much become devoid of real info. It's all speculation and talking heads. What's more, American media has very much become a series of echo chambers. MSNBC talks to their audience, and FOX NEWS to their audience. The two audiences, thus, become insulated from each other. That's one of them ost dangerous things about Sun News. Good thing it sucks.

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This should be locked for several reasons, not the least of which is there are already several threads with this topic that are discussing it in a more rational way.

Defamatory though? Sure, but far less so than the defamation that the lefty forum member on this site perpetrate against harper on an hourly basis. If defamation is a reason to delete a thread, or stop a poster from saying it, there's a LOT of deleting to be done on this forum.

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Betsy, why not talk about something relevant? Why not go after Layton's ridiculous promise to deliver nationwide daycare, which is a service that families should pay for on their own? Why not attack Layton's idiocy to implement some sort of cap-and-trade system and/or comply with the "international community" and damage Canada industry? What about his fantasy promise that he will magically find the doctors we need to address the shortage of their supply in Canada? How about the NDP desiring a "more balanced" approach from Canada towards the Israel/Arab conflict, meaning in essence that we should be more accommodating of Hamas and Fatah?

There's no much REAL stuff that needs to be discussed about idiotic and dangerous leftist ideas that will hurt Canada if implemented, yet there is this stupid focus on these allegations that nobody should give a damn about.

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Lastly, the prostitutes were illegal as opposed to... legal?

Since prostitution is legal in Canada, but bawdy houses are not, that part is not really off base....if the allegations are true, which they most likely aren't.

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Guest American Woman

Was another one really necessary?

My thoughts exactly. Another thread makes it necessary for everyone to repeat what they've already said, or if they don't bother, this thread ultimately gives the illusion that there aren't a lot of people who feel/believe what they've already posted.

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