Scotty Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 are women being stoned in Canada?... the issue is using acceptable diplomatic language at government levels not any xenophobic anti immigration beliefs you may hold... Honor killing doesn't involve stoning. That's a Sharia punishment for adultery and extra-marital sex. Honor killing involves things like this Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 primitive? there is no such thing actually...each society is equally developed in it's own way there is no universally "correct" cultural behaviour... That's so much twaddle. First, saying 'each culture is developed in its own way' is meaningless. Some are simply more developed, i.e., more advanced than others. Second, the universally accepted cultural behaviour in Canada is OURS. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 I didnmt say you need to like it. I neither like nor respect it - nor them. It is how things are in some parts and some uber -religious areas. Not in Canada. Well, if they are devoted to those practices, then let them stay there. Well, you could say it, but you'll be sharing a cell with them, and wont that be fun. Are you saying the use of deadly force is illegal when used to prevent murder? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
wyly Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Honor killing doesn't involve stoning. That's a Sharia punishment for adultery and extra-marital sex. Honor killing involves things like this honor killing has no single required method...you're making shit up now... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Scotty Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 honor killing has no single required method...you're making shit up now... You're the one who brought up stoning, sneering about how you didn't see any stonings going on in Canada. Now you're whining because I responded to it? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
wyly Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 That's so much twaddle. First, saying 'each culture is developed in its own way' is meaningless. Some are simply more developed, i.e., more advanced than others. Second, the universally accepted cultural behaviour in Canada is OURS. moving the goalposts scotty...it's meaningless to you because you don't understand the concept...the issue was proper diplomatic language, insulting the culture which you're trying to influence does not promote change, it just pisses them off... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Scotty Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 moving the goalposts scotty...it's meaningless to you because you don't understand the concept. The concept of cultural relativism isn't complicated, wyly, it's just intellectually and morally bankrupt. the issue was proper diplomatic language, insulting the culture which you're trying to influence does not promote change, it just pisses them off... Calling it barbaric wasn't insulting an entire culture, it was insulting the misogynistic sub-culture which DESERVED to be insulted, which deserved to be kicked the face, in fact. And I could not possibly care less if those people feel insulted. They'll get the message, and that's what matters. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
GWiz Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Ho hum, boring, more CON garbage that's meaningless... Keep up the GOOD WORK Justin... See ya on some other thread... Maybe... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
guyser Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Are you saying the use of deadly force is illegal when used to prevent murder? In most cases in this country? Yes. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 moving the goalposts scotty...it's meaningless to you because you don't understand the concept...the issue was proper diplomatic language, insulting the culture which you're trying to influence does not promote change, it just pisses them off... Diplomatic language is used for diplomacy. This is plain language used to convey a simple point. Barbarism is not wanted. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
scribblet Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Ho hum, boring, more CON garbage that's meaningless... Keep up the GOOD WORK Justin... See ya on some other thread... Maybe... If it's 'con' garbage, then I'm happy to subscribe to 'garbage' which has respect for women and considers honour killings, barbaric.... which they are. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
punked Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 I get that the Liberals are the "party of the middle" and all but why do they have to take all the terrible left wing, and all the terrible right wing positions? Seriously? Hurray War! Yeppy Tax cuts! Boooo asking immigrants to live by Canadian values Boooo not giving everyone in Canada their own rink I just don't get it. Is this how you define yourself now? Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 This is such a non-story. Why does this trivial poop take up the main page on news websites when there are far more important matters going on? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
scribblet Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 For the same reason the trivial poop about the CPC is on the websites et al everyone wants to spin their own story and frame the party they hate in the worst terms possible. LOL Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Jonsa Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 This is such a non-story. Why does this trivial poop take up the main page on news websites when there are far more important matters going on? I agree tempest in a teapot. OTOH, the practice of honour killings IS barbaric. Its a perfectly acceptable and entirely accurate descriptor. bar·bar·ic/bärˈbarik/Adjective 1. Savagely cruel; exceedingly brutal. 2. Primitive; unsophisticated. If I call a white power pinhead a racist asshole, I could care less that he is offended, he's still a racist asshole. Quote
scribblet Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Where in 'ell does Trudeau get off in saying that 'conservatives are cynical if that isn't a pile of liberal doo doo... sheez http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/03/15/barbara-kay-trudeau-the-multiculturalist-walks-into-trap-of-his-own-making/ Taken aback by the kerfuffle, Mr. Trudeau backtracked. In an email to The Globe and Mail, he wrote: “Perhaps I got tangled in semantic weeds in my comments, particularly in view of the Conservatives’ cynicism on these issues. I want to make clear that I think the acts described are heinous, barbaric acts that are totally unacceptable in our society.”I’m puzzled by Trudeau’s logic. Both Justin Trudeau and the Conservatives believe that honour killings are “barbaric.” But according to Mr. Trudeau, the Conservatives’ views on immigration are “cynical.” Therefore, actually identifying honour-motivated crimes as “barbaric” in an official document is unacceptable to people like Liberals, who are not cynical about immigration, and who are therefore made uncomfortable by accurate adjectives pointing to unpleasant realities. Mr. Trudeau’s shambolic rhetorical dilemma is a very good illustration of the corner into which committed multiculturalists have painted themselves. Multiculturalism depends on a belief that all cultures are equal. To criticize a specific cultural practice is to imply that our culture is superior to others in certain respects, which is multicultural thought crime. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Mr.Canada Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 culture is culture, killing is killing, why mix up the two? Because killing is part of the Islamic culture, as in honor killing. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
M.Dancer Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Because killing is part of the Islamic culture, as in honor killing. You mean like easter, st valentines day and village idiots are in ours? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Trudeau as much as it's disturbs the unsophisticated masses was correct...we need to be culturally sensitive, we may not agree with another cultures practices but we still have to respect their beliefs regardless how abhorrent they are to us...as much as we all agree it's barbaric when you're trying to influence the practices of another culture calling them barbaric is counter productive...if you're negotiating a car purchase calling the salesman a thieving arsehole even if true is going to gain you what?...trudeau's error was saying something that most people will not comprehend... Ummm...no we do not. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
betsy Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 All parties agree that "barbaric" is an appropriate term to use. Ignatieff further said that there is no "honor" in honor-killings. Quote
BubberMiley Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Once again, betsy is right. Trudeau was wrong. Honour killings are, indeed, barbaric. And spelling "honour" without the 'u' is just uncivilized. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
M.Dancer Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 And spelling "honour" without the 'u' is just uncivilized. Hear Hear! Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 Hear Hear! Except when they spell it Pearl Harbour...then boooooooooo. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kimmy Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 *What* culture is being being offended here? What culture doesn't hold "honor killings" to be barbaric? I know it's not Muslims we're talking about, because every single time there has been a thread about "honor killings" committed by Muslims, our resident Muslim Defense League has sprung into action to explain that "honor killing" is as abhorrent to Muslims as it is to the rest of us, and that those very very rare Muslims who have committed "honor killings" are not representative of Muslims, they're just a tiny tiny minority of... well, barbarians. In fact, I am sure that our resident Muslim Defense League will be along any moment to set you guys straight and explain that Muslims hold "honor killing" to be just as barbaric as the rest of us. So ... which culture is the description "barbaric" actually offensive to? Let's name names. Let's find out which culture it actually is where "honor killing" is considered an actual part of the culture, rather than a crime committed by some small minority within that group. I'm willing to bet that nobody here can actually name such a culture. (But if there actually is one, then let's not accept immigrants from there.) -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
William Ashley Posted March 16, 2011 Report Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) THIS IS JUST STUPID TRUDEAU IS RIGHT!!! ROMANS HAD HONOUR KILLINGS TOO! ALTHOUGH MUSLIMS WOULD LIKELY BE BARBARIANS... THE PRACTICE CANNOT BE BARBARIC BECAUSE ROMANS DID IT. THE GREEKS HAD HONOURABLE SUICIDE.. SO DO THE JAPANESE. AS DO INDIANS. FOR THAT MATTER MOST OF THE ANCIENT AND NOT SO ANCIENT WORLD INTO THE MODERN PERIOD HAD THESE PRACTICES. THEY HAD DUELS UP UNTIL THE 1900's in Canada and witch burnings. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE IN CANADA.... NOT A BARBARIC PRACTICE the author only demonstrates themselves to be uneducated to say it is barbaric. There is just a lot of misrepresentation in the West on what honour killings actually are. A lot of false information. Male Rapists are killed. People who however have sex out of wedlock with familail permission are considered a form of rapist. This system of honour in the familial and the vestigality of women is very tradition and HIGHLY civilized. It is actually the west that is following the ways of Sodom and Gomorrah, and "savage" With sexual promescuity and acceptance of non marital sex and adultary as OK in Canada. That is why rape happens more frequently in Canada, hell a judge didn't even sentence a rapist to jail for rape. Personally Canada's position is far more barbaric. Perhaps instead it could say RAPE IS UNACCEPTABLE IN CANADA! Females are encourage to protect themselves stay with freinds and arm them selves with self defence utensils. OR HONOUR KILLINGS ARE MURDER IN CANADA. all this PC bs... they are being total bafoons and ingorant jerks in getting this offensive war propaganda into immigration manuals. It makes Canada look like a bunch of moronic hicks. The problem is you are thinking in your head like it is the only head around, it isn't people have different values, it doesn't make the values wrong in the context of another soceity. It is the idea behind the act, not the act itself. The substance or nature of an act and the underlying meaning is what is really occuring. The west has a problem with over materializing meaning to very physical concepts that tie into mostly atheist and thus "foundationless" concepts. That are tied into human emotions that are not normalized. Normalization is a form of totalitarianism - and in that respect I can say very much that any form of totalitarianism in western culture has failed to provide for universal standards of morality and goodness. Especially on the basis of US or them, when acts not acceptable within a society are perpetuated on those who are not part of that society, or upon minority groups within that society. Since the west has failed to provide a working standard of duty on humanitarian grounds I find it hard pressed that those same concepts are being pushed in literature, attacking a practice, rather than representing and communicating that there is a difference conception of that practice in Canada. the concept of barbarism to a civilized society is not one that is rational to perpetuate, quite contrarily it is unneeded agression at a civlized society that has a different identity to an act. It is unfortunate such blind and self absorbed totalitarian people are writing such things. They remaking Islam into the new Jewdom, on the wings of the 4th. Why not just make being a Muslim punishable by death and speed up to the objective. It fills me with a sense of unease and disgust to see this form of deteriation in the human cooperative condition that such hate speach is perpetuated in the very annals of the Harper Government. Edited March 16, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
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