Violence in the name of Allah

[Shwa]

This is the foundation of the Muslim religion. I don't need to prove who wrote the Koran. I have to rpove what Radical Muslims believe. You guys are totally missing the point. You're making me, M.Canada, the topic instead of talking about this thread. That is called a strawman.

Nope. I have disproven your use of the Koran has a historical document. Without further indpendent corroboration, your use of it in this manner is invalid. The rest falls is just a repeat.

[Scotty]

Exactly. And how many people do you hear saying that Germans have a propensity for violence, or that all Germans should be kept away because of what happened in WW II ?

An awful lot of people felt an awful lot of enmity towards all Germans at the time. They held them responsible for the doings of their nation - with some justification.

[Shwa]

Meh...the plane could be crashing with gun toting terrorists screaming Allahu Akbar all around you and you'd still go...

Meh. Another DogOnPooch irrelevancy. Stick to Risk in your mothers basement where what you say has some meaning.

[Scotty]

Nope. I have disproven your use of the Koran has a historical document. Without further indpendent corroboration, your use of it in this manner is invalid. The rest falls is just a repeat.

Of course its a historical document. That isn't even in question. It's ACCURACY can be questioned, of course - although you better not do it in a Muslim state.

The point isn't its accuracy, though, it is what manner of guide it is to the billion odd Muslims out there who believe it to be the literal word of God.

[DogOnPorch]

Meh. Another DogOnPooch irrelevancy. Stick to Risk in your mothers basement where what you say has some meaning.

Ad hominem.

[Shwa]

Of course its a historical document. That isn't even in question. It's ACCURACY can be questioned, of course - although you better not do it in a Muslim state.

The point isn't its accuracy, though, it is what manner of guide it is to the billion odd Muslims out there who believe it to be the literal word of God.

The accuracy was in the way it was used and thus it's use as a historical document is invalid.

The manner in which it guides the billion odd Muslims out there is fine.

[Shwa]

Ad hominem.

Meh.

[DogOnPorch]

The accuracy was in the way it was used and thus it's use as a historical document is invalid.

The manner in which it guides the billion odd Muslims out there is fine.

Boom!

[GostHacked]

Whether you think it's fiction is really not relevant to the discussion. The Muslim world certainly doesn't think it's fiction. In fact, the Muslim world embraces the words of the Koran wholeheartedly. The Koran is considered, by Muslim authorities, to be the literal word of God, and a guide for the behaviour of all Muslims. I don't claim to be an expert on it, but I've read enough, and seen enough video of young Muslim boys and men sitting, cross-legged on the floor, heads bobbing up and down as they chant the words of the Koran, over an over, for hours after hours to realize what kind of indoctrination they're getting.

Well, like in other threads lets put the focus on those who are radicalizing the religion and hijacking (lol) it from the common follower. But as we see in so many cases all the followers of said religion get painted with the same brush. It's ignorance at it's best. It does not address the issue which is Radical Islam, which is but a small tiny fraction of Islam overall. Hell most people are not aware of the 3 major factions within Islam. The fact that the Sunnis and the Shiites don't seem to agree on many things within Islam and mostly fight with each other and kill each other more than they kill westerners or Christians. And even less know about the sub-factions within the Sunni, Shiite and Sufi factions of Islam.

Tell them the Koran is a work of fiction. For that matter, go to some Muslim countries and try to tell anyone its a work of fiction. You will be arrested, and in some places, sentenced to death for such words.

You can tell any religious group that their holy book is a work of fiction and see the reaction you get. It's not restricted to Muslims. Try to attack Christianity and see what Mr. Canada has to say about it. He is suggesting a genocide and ethnic cleansing of Canada, weather it's by forcing them our of the country, or jailing them or perhaps even kill them.

Anyone who can think will ask me the question 'why do you feel this book is fiction?'. Those who cannot end up making threats, because to me religion on the whole is simply a brainwashing machine and a control mechanism.

Edited March 11, 2011 by GostHacked

[DogOnPorch]

So when I tell the JWs to get lost and take their fairy tale books with them it's fatwa time for ol' DogOnPorch?

[Moonlight Graham]

While it's true that the term Jihad means "my struggle", Mein Kempf translates to the exact same thing "my struggle".

That's actually not true. Jihad means "struggle", not "my struggle".

[Shwa]

Boom!

...yawn...

[DogOnPorch]

...yawn...

...never been 'sploded, I gather...

[Michael Hardner]

An awful lot of people felt an awful lot of enmity towards all Germans at the time. They held them responsible for the doings of their nation - with some justification.

I'm not saying it's unnatural to feel that way. But we reconciled with the German people over that awful war pretty well, all things considered.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Michael Hardner

[M.Dancer]

I'm not saying it's unnatural to feel that way. But we reconciled with the German people over that awful war pretty well, all things considered.

Maybe you could facilitate the détente

[Michael Hardner]

Maybe you could facilitate the détente

Helping heal the wounds from a war that ended 65 years ago ? That may be a moderator job I could handle... at least on a small scale...

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm not saying it's unnatural to feel that way. But we reconciled with the German people over that awful war pretty well, all things considered.

"We" did? They're still occupied by American forces, just like Japan, Korea, and EyeRak!

[Michael Hardner]

"We" did? They're still occupied by American forces, just like Japan, Korea, and EyeRak!

Oddly, you're occupying a country that is one of your allies.

Kind of like the house guest who drinks too much at the party and stays overnight.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oddly, you're occupying a country that is one of your allies.

Kind of like the house guest who drinks too much at the party and stays overnight.

Pretty much...remember, Charles De Gaulle had to ask the Americans to leave. To which the Americans replied, ""Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?"

[Michael Hardner]

Pretty much...remember, Charles De Gaulle had to ask the Americans to leave. To which the Americans replied, ""Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?"

We met a nice African American man in Paris who spoke great French and was very friendly and helpful... gave us directions in English and told us he just stayed there after the war... this was in 1981, and he was about 60 or so I suppose...

[Mr.Canada]

Canada needs to wake up about the true aim of Islam which is to make fun of Christianity and Judaism until they fall by the wayside and Islam will take over as the dominant religion. By violence if necessary. That is what is happening in the Sudan. Muslims vs Christians. I hope you all know that is what that war is about. As it says in the Koran. KILL any Christians and Jews that cross your path.

Muslims are violent. Look at the UK, France and the Netherlands they have taken over parts of that previously all white country to make "no go zones" for white people. Yeah , that's a religion of peace alright. I'm sure all this is perfectly acceptable to people here.

[M.Dancer]

Canada needs to wake up about the true aim of Islam which is to make fun of Christianity and Judaism

That's my job

[scouterjim]

Canada needs to wake up about the true aim of Islam which is to make fun of Christianity and Judaism until they fall by the wayside and Islam will take over as the dominant religion. By violence if necessary. That is what is happening in the Sudan. Muslims vs Christians. I hope you all know that is what that war is about. As it says in the Koran. KILL any Christians and Jews that cross your path.

Muslims are violent. Look at the UK, France and the Netherlands they have taken over parts of that previously all white country to make "no go zones" for white people. Yeah , that's a religion of peace alright. I'm sure all this is perfectly acceptable to people here.

Canada also needs to be aware of the threat of radical Christianss who believe it is Christianity's job to destroy all other faiths. The radical Christian right are no different than the Taliban. Both have the same goal: a world wide theocracy (run by them).

Edited March 11, 2011 by scouterjim

[Mr.Canada]

Canada also needs to be aware of the threat of radical Christianss who believe it is Christianity's job to destroy all other faiths. The radical Christian right are no different than the Taliban. Both have the same goal: a world wide theocracy (run by them).

This thread is about Islam, if you'd like to discuss other things please make your own thread.

[Scotty]

Well, like in other threads lets put the focus on those who are radicalizing the religion and hijacking (lol) it from the common follower. But as we see in so many cases all the followers of said religion get painted with the same brush. It's ignorance at it's best.

Hang on. It's not just the radicals which consider the Koran to be the literal word of God. All of Islam and all its branches are in agreement on that. The Koran is the divine word of God, and it is telling people virtually everything about the moral, spiritual, economic, military and political behavior God requires of them. And unlike the Bible, no re-interpretation of the Koran is possible because Muslims believe it is perfect, and any questioning of its present interpretation is heresy - which is still subject to criminal sanction in most Muslim countries.

Therefore, I don't think it's out of line, when looking at some of the pretty nasty stuff in the Koran, to question what Muslims, as a whole, are taking from it, and what effect Islam has had on the cultures of those who have embraced - or submitted - to it.

It does not address the issue which is Radical Islam, which is but a small tiny fraction of Islam overall.

It is not small not tiny. The number of Muslims actively engaged in terrorism might be small, but when you can take polls in the Muslim world and find 60%, 70%, 80% of people supporting Sharia law, which I and most other secularists regard as pretty damned radical, then I think you have to forget about thinking only a tiny percentage of Muslims are radicals. If 80% of a population, as in Egypt's population, believes anyone who dares convert from Islam to something else must be killed, well, excuse me for thinking these are not exactly moderates.

You can tell any religious group that their holy book is a work of fiction and see the reaction you get. It's not restricted to Muslims. Try to attack Christianity and see what Mr. Canada has to say about it.

You can insult Christianity all you want and not fear violent retaliation from Christians. Plays and movies mocking Jesus have been shown repeatedly. Artists have mocked Christianity repeatedly. Remember that the National Gallery of Canada plunked down public money for "Piss Jesus" which was a cross encased in a jar of urine.

Yet decades after writing a book which some inferred insulted Islam, Salman Rushdie still has to have police protection. And people are still coming from all over the Muslim world trying to bomb or kill the Danes who dared to draw and publish a few cartoons which featured a likeness of Muhammad.

Christians might get upset about something insulting their religion but they're not likely to track you down in the street and stick a knife into you with their protest note.

The practitioners, the followers, of Islam seem, to a far, far greater degree than anyone else, to be ready and willing to commit murderous acts of violence on behalf of what they see as God's will. And even many of those who aren't willing to commit those acts are willing to countenance them in God's name.