scribblet Posted February 23, 2011 Report Posted February 23, 2011 I'm sure you've all read about this tragic story, well it's on the U.S. news today. One (U.S.) doctor and other sites are calling it physician assisted suicide, death panels or euthanasia saying it is partly due to gov't rationed health care. - Is it ? I'm not sure either is true, but from reading it appears that the baby would be more comfortable with the tracheotomy which also enable him to die at home with his parents. IMO it seems doesn't seem a lot to ask, the parents are familiar with this as their other child had a similar condition and was given a tracheotomy. They are now trying to have the baby transferred to a Detroit hospital where it seems he will not be taken off the tube, paid for I assume by OHIP, not sure. I believe the difference being that the tube cannot be removed without the parent's consent whereas in Canada, the hospital seek consent from the Office of the Public Guardian and Trustee. What an awful situation for the child and parents, who should have the final say ? http://www.globaltoronto.com/Parents+dying+baby+withhold+consent+life+support/4320633/story.html Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Posted February 23, 2011 Holy Ambu bag, Batman. No wonder the US news is running with this story....it is political mana from heaven. Thanks for sharing...hope this kid escapes to Detroit to live out his last days per his guardian's direction. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jonsa Posted February 23, 2011 Report Posted February 23, 2011 I cannot even begin to imagine the heartache for all involved in this. I am having an incredibly hard time understanding how a parent's wishes for their toddler are being overturned by the legal system. I can't believe that doctors would arbitrarily refer the matter to the OPGT and the courts. There must be more to this story (at least I'd like to believe there is.) Reminds me of Teri Schiavo, accept the role of the husband is the province and that just doesn't seem right. I saw that moronic doctor on Faux claiming this was the "mentality of rationing" in Canadian health care. But I'm not surprised by hearing ignorant and completely incorrect opinions on Faux from their talking head "experts". And yes, if the kid is transfered to Detroit, OHIP will pick up the tab. So much for Dr. Moron Faux. Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 23, 2011 Report Posted February 23, 2011 I cannot even begin to imagine the heartache for all involved in this. I am having an incredibly hard time understanding how a parent's wishes for their toddler are being overturned by the legal system. I can't believe that doctors would arbitrarily refer the matter to the OPGT and the courts. There must be more to this story (at least I'd like to believe there is.) Reminds me of Teri Schiavo, accept the role of the husband is the province and that just doesn't seem right. I saw that moronic doctor on Faux claiming this was the "mentality of rationing" in Canadian health care. But I'm not surprised by hearing ignorant and completely incorrect opinions on Faux from their talking head "experts". And yes, if the kid is transfered to Detroit, OHIP will pick up the tab. So much for Dr. Moron Faux. Nature dealt the baby a losing hand. Nothing can be done to save the baby, and prolonging its life at no small expense is ludicrous, just as it was ludicrous to prolong the life of Schiavo's whose cerebral cortex had long ago disappeared to be replaced with cerebral fluid. Quote
Jonsa Posted February 23, 2011 Report Posted February 23, 2011 Nature dealt the baby a losing hand. Nothing can be done to save the baby, and prolonging its life at no small expense is ludicrous, just as it was ludicrous to prolong the life of Schiavo's whose cerebral cortex had long ago disappeared to be replaced with cerebral fluid. I don't dispute that the kid is terminal. I am just concerned about the process and conditions of state intervention in this case. Quote
Smallc Posted February 23, 2011 Report Posted February 23, 2011 Nature dealt the baby a losing hand. Nothing can be done to save the baby, and prolonging its life at no small expense is ludicrous, just as it was ludicrous to prolong the life of Schiavo's whose cerebral cortex had long ago disappeared to be replaced with cerebral fluid. Exactly. The reality is that every system has rationing, and something that will do near nothing in a waste of resources. Quote
scribblet Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Posted February 24, 2011 I realize that the baby is not going to survive, the parents know this, all they want is the tracheotomy so the baby can be more comfortable, and die at home. I don't think this is too much to ask and object to OHIP paying for this to be done in Detroit, which makes no sense as it would cost more. I also find it hard to accept that the hospital would go for a court order in order to end the baby's life, if this is a form of rationing, it's wrong, although cost savings would be more appropriate. I say, give the baby the operation and let him go home to die with his family. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Fox News is all over this...as expected! http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/23/canadian-family-life-support-battle-places-hope-michigan-hospital/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 I also find it hard to accept that the hospital would go for a court order in order to end the baby's life, if this is a form of rationing, it's wrong, although cost savings would be more appropriate. Actually, it isn't a form of rationing. It's a form of compassion. The baby should be allowed to die, with drugs to kill the pain. Quote
wyly Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Actually, it isn't a form of rationing. It's a form of compassion. The baby should be allowed to die, with drugs to kill the pain.I haven't heard the doctors view on this, but I'll take a guess at what's going on...both sides know the baby will die, MDs are probably already of the opinion the baby is brain dead so it's pointless to have a trach, the trach is probably more for the parents benefit than the baby, if it's brain dead it won't feel any pain...I'm with the MD's on this but I can understand the parents not wanting to let go just yet... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Smallc Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 I haven't heard the doctors view on this, but I'll take a guess at what's going on...both sides know the baby will die, MDs are probably already of the opinion the baby is brain dead so it's pointless to have a trach, the trach is probably more for the parents benefit than the baby, if it's brain dead it won't feel any pain...I'm with the MD's on this but I can understand the parents not wanting to let go just yet... That could very well be also. I know a case of a man from here who is dying of cancer. He was dying in a small rural hospital, and the doctors had him on heavy morphine to kill the pain. The family made them stop, and now they are watching him die slowly, over months, in agony. Quote
betsy Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 I'm sure you've all read about this tragic story, well it's on the U.S. news today. One (U.S.) doctor and other sites are calling it physician assisted suicide, death panels or euthanasia saying it is partly due to gov't rationed health care. - Is it ? I'm not sure either is true, but from reading it appears that the baby would be more comfortable with the tracheotomy which also enable him to die at home with his parents. IMO it seems doesn't seem a lot to ask, the parents are familiar with this as their other child had a similar condition and was given a tracheotomy. They are now trying to have the baby transferred to a Detroit hospital where it seems he will not be taken off the tube, paid for I assume by OHIP, not sure. I believe the difference being that the tube cannot be removed without the parent's consent whereas in Canada, the hospital seek consent from the Office of the Public Guardian and Trustee. What an awful situation for the child and parents, who should have the final say ? http://www.globaltoronto.com/Parents+dying+baby+withhold+consent+life+support/4320633/story.html From what I heard on Michael Coren tonight, the hospital officials wouldn't release the baby thus preventing the parents from taking their child to Detroit. Quote
xul Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 all they want is the tracheotomy so the baby can be more comfortable Could they be more sure of this than a doctor? Prolonging someone's life another six months by the means of making him or her barely breath. What is this different from waterboarding someone six months? I also find it hard to accept that the hospital would go for a court order in order to end the baby's life I think it is all about who should have the right to decide the child's treatment, the doctors or the parents? Do you think parents or patients(if they are adult) should have the right to force doctors to give their children or themselves a certain treatment even if the doctors consider the treatment useless or more harmful? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Could they be more sure of this than a doctor? Prolonging someone's life another six months by the means of making him or her barely breath. What is this different from waterboarding someone six months? Then why prolong your or my left even six more years. Everybody in the death pool! I think it is all about who should have the right to decide the child's treatment, the doctors or the parents? Do you think parents or patients(if they are adult) should have the right to force doctors to give their children or themselves a certain treatment even if the doctors consider the treatment useless or more harmful? This is not a doctors decision....we can call Dr. Kevorkian for the tough cases. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 From what I heard on Michael Coren tonight, the hospital officials wouldn't release the baby thus preventing the parents from taking their child to Detroit. Too bad...in Canada they can't sue their asses for doing this. Hello death boards! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Molly Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 ...I'm with the MD's on this but I can understand the parents not wanting to let go just yet... Aye. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Exactly. The reality is that every system has rationing, and something that will do near nothing in a waste of resources. If parent's want to spend their own money, it's none of your goddamned business. And has nothing to do with rationing or a waste of resources. Quote
Smallc Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) If parent's want to spend their own money, it's none of your goddamned business. And has nothing to do with rationing or a waste of resources. No matter who's money they spend, they're taking away medical resources that coud be used for something else, and they may be very well needlessly continuing something that doesn't need to continue. They can do as they please, but I don't have to agree. I would probably feel the same as them if I were as close to the situation. That doesn't make it right to go ahead the way that they are trying to. Edited February 24, 2011 by Smallc Quote
Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 No matter who's money they spend, they're taking away medical resources that coud be used for something else You don't know if it's a so-called waste of resources. Doctor's have varying opinions. At the very least these parent's should have the freedom to spend their own money on medical care for their child. And it should be none of your business. It's a sad state of affairs when even this is up for grabs. If they want to go to a Michigan hospital, it should be their choice. Quote
Dithers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Too bad...in Canada they can't sue their asses for doing this. Hello death boards! Did you know Canada is north of you? Edited February 24, 2011 by Dithers Quote DEATHCAMPS BLARG USA! USA! USA!
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Oh goody. An imbecile. Pretty much... Almost 20,000 posts and little or nothing is really said... That's gotta be some sort of record for mindlessness... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 That's gotta be some sort of record for mindlessness... Mr. NFL-NCAA would certainly know about that. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Did you know Canada is north of you? I liked your other insult better. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Dithers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 I liked your other insult better. Just as appropriate. Quote DEATHCAMPS BLARG USA! USA! USA!
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Posted February 24, 2011 Just as appropriate. No worries....I have been called worse by better people - PET Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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