cybercoma Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 If all they want is the trach and a discharge to die at home, what's the big deal?Have you read any of the articles posted? You wouldn't ask such a stupid question if you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Show me that the Canadians who voted for Douglas knew about his beliefs regarding Eugenics. Most Canadians don't even know about Alberta's Michener Institute, which actually practiced Eugenics by sterilizing those they conisdered "mental defectives". Well I certainly knew, and since many Canadians think they are smarter than Americans, they certainly must have known too...right? The eugenics movement is a pretty mainstream topic for forced sterilizations, impact on "visible minorities", Nazi Germany, etc. It's not a well kept secret. Besides, you once again miss the point. It doesn't matter that Douglas believed in Eugenics and Jefferson owned slaves. For the fourth time, You can't hold people from generations ago up to the moral standards of society today. Those two are considered great because of their lasting contributions to our societies. Douglas didn't do anything for me, but Jefferson sure helped you out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Have you read any of the articles posted? You wouldn't ask such a stupid question if you did. Yes....I even posted one myself. I'm just glad I'm not a brain dead child in Ontario....he's gonna miss the Blue Jay's opening day at this rate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) nevermind. Edited February 24, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The Great and Powerful OZ has ruled...this baby must die! The baby is going to die. Tax dollars should not be wasted on parents in denial. This is sad, yes. It's not a nice story. If the parents want to cross the border and waste their money on American doctors, let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Derp is a nonsensical sound that, in this case, carries about as much meaning as the idiotic, sadistic sound-bite on death camps. Derp... Squawk... Blah... Blarg... And then obligatory nationalistic chest thumping... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) If Tommy Douglas was still around these people would've never been allowed to have this child. He advocated the sterilization of the unfit. He strongly believed in eugenics. So did Thomas Edison,Oliver Wendell Holmes,and William Shockley.... Edited February 24, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) The baby is going to die. Tax dollars should not be wasted on parents in denial. This is sad, yes. It's not a nice story. But it could be a better story...we're all gonna die. If the parents want to cross the border and waste their money on American doctors, let them. Why not...they've already wasted their tax dollars in Ontario. Wouldn't be the first time Canadians crossed the border for a better option. Edited February 24, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dithers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) But it could be a better story...we're all gonna die. Why not...they've already wasted their tax dollars in Ontario. Wouldn't be the first time Canadians crossed the border for a better option. DERP Ontario wastes money on deathcamps DERP teaparty "Conclusion: Americans living in Canada generally rated the US health care system as being better than the Canadian system. However, they acknowledged the inefficiency and inequity of the US system, and nearly half preferred the Canadian system despite its perceived problems." I don't understand. Why would nearly half of Americans living in Canada prefer....deathcamps...? Edited February 24, 2011 by Dithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I don't understand. Why would nearly half of Americans living in Canada prefer....deathcamps...? Because they can always go back home for quicker care, just like PM Chretien, Belinda Stronach, and MP Williams. It's a no brainer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 DERP Ontario wastes money on deathcamps DERP teaparty "Conclusion: Americans living in Canada generally rated the US health care system as being better than the Canadian system. However, they acknowledged the inefficiency and inequity of the US system, and nearly half preferred the Canadian system despite its perceived problems." I don't understand. Why would nearly half of Americans living in Canada prefer....deathcamps...? Irrelevant!!! USA USA USA!!! DERP!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dithers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Because they can always go back home for quicker care, just like PM Chretien, Belinda Stronach, and MP Williams. It's a no brainer! Fixed: DERP! DEATHCAMPS! DERP! USA! USA! USA! Yes indeed, that's obviously how they responded to the poll. Let's just ignore the actual findings and mouthfart. ----- Finley, a well-known TV and radio host for years in San Francisco, adds, "I now have 20/20 vision thanks to Canadian eye doctors. And I haven't had to wait for my surgeries, either." Edited February 24, 2011 by Dithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Finley, a well-known TV and radio host for years in San Francisco, adds, "I now have 20/20 vision thanks to Canadian eye doctors. And I haven't had to wait for my surgeries, either." Well gee, I think this speaks for itself. Everybody knows that a Canadian Prime Minister going to the Mayo Clinic for a life saving procedure beats a radio host going to Sears Optical in Sudbury! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dithers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Well gee, I think this speaks for itself. Everybody knows that a Canadian Prime Minister going to the Mayo Clinic for a life saving procedure beats a radio host going to Sears Optical in Sudbury! Yes indeed. A former prime minister having gone for a single procedure that was offered to a higher degree of quality unequivocally beats out the hundreds of American respondents who split evenly on which system was better. Let's take that logic further. The input of hundreds of Americans who actually know, is dwarfed by the indoctrinated opinion of a single Jacksonian ignoramus. DERP!DERP! USA!USA!USA! DEATHCAMPS! ---------- Art Finley is a West Virginia native who lives in Vancouver. "I'm 82, and in excellent health," he told me this week. "It costs me all of $57 a month for health care, and it's excellent. I'm so tired of all the lies and bullshit I hear about the system up here in the U.S. media." Edited February 24, 2011 by Dithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Yes indeed. A former prime minister having gone for a single procedure that was offered to a higher degree of quality unequivocally beats out the hundreds of American respondents who split evenly on which system was better. Sure does...several members here already admit that the excess capacity and capabilities of the US health care system is part of Canada's system. Provincial contracts with US providers proves that. It's already been discussed here at length Junior. Let's take that logic further. The input of hundreds of Americans who actually know, is dwarfed by the indoctrinated opinion of a single Jacksonian ignoramus. But...but...they are Americans too. Why should we believe them? Art Finley is a West Virginia native who lives in Vancouver. "I'm 82, and in excellent health," he told me this week. "It costs me all of $57 a month for health care, and it's excellent. I'm so tired of all the lies and bullshit I hear about the system up here in the U.S. media." Was that Shona Holmes' father? Edited February 25, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 What a sad state of affairs for the parents.Not lose one but two children this way. Sadly, I agree with the Docs. They do not want to put the trach in as it will be a painful operation for the baby and will do nothing to benefit the baby. It is brain dead and there is no hope whatsoever for recovery. The emotional toll it takes, and the resulting lack of clear thinking on the parents part pushed the hospital to seek a legal opinion. They got it and want to follow it through. For those with an agenda, ie the 'death panels' et al, it is sad some need to mould this tragic story to fit their pre-existing notions, all ill fated mind you. Even worse is the pathetic enjoyment some posters are displaying. I went through this exact same scenario with a good friend of mine. Her husband,oddly enough with the same last name -Schiavo- and it was definitely extremely painful and draining. He had suffered a massive heart attack at 42 (2 kids 8 &4) and was brain dead by the time he hit the ice (during a game) The docs agreed with the wife, it was time to pull the plug. No hope and not one sign of brain activity. His family had other ideas. They got the courts involved ,an injunction was issued but ultimately rescinded.They theatened her (thus why I was there all night)they stole his goods, they lied, and while the wife was understanding to their feelings, she had no choice but to agree to have the plugged pulled. His family fought tooth and nail, ignored all the drs opinions, only to find out later when the autopsy was completed that well north of 90% of his brain was black....meaning it had died long ago. Tough on the parents, and tough on the hospital. But like hospitals all over the world, tough choices have to be made, and the most foolish one would be to throw good money at something everyone knows is bad. Cant win for losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Well gee, I think this speaks for itself. Everybody knows that a Canadian Prime Minister going to the Mayo Clinic for a life saving procedure beats a radio host going to Sears Optical in Sudbury! Mayo is very good with their specialty. If someone of American import (or anyone Nationality) needed a delicate eye operation they would be sent to Toronto General Hospital. I assume there is a point you want to make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dithers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Mayo is very good with their specialty. If someone of American import (or anyone Nationality) needed a delicate eye operation they would be sent to Toronto General Hospital. I assume there is a point you want to make? Have you not detected the general thrust of his posts? He's an ignorant buffoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dithers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Sure does...several members hear already admit that the excess capacity and capabilities of the US health care system is part of Canada's system. Provincial contracts with US providers proves that.It's already been discussed here at length Junior. No, a single procedure does not halfwit. That has not been discussed and is intentionally ignorant. DERP! But...but...they are Americans too. Why should we believe them? Sucks when contradicted by your more educated brethren, yes? DERP! DEATHCAMPS! FACTS IRRELEVENT! SARAH PALIN! BLARGH! USA!USA!USA! ----------- The American government spends 23 per cent more than the Canadian government per capita on health care, even though 46 million U.S. citizens have no coverage at all. Edited February 24, 2011 by Dithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Sure does...several members hear already admit that the excess capacity and capabilities of the US health care system is part of Canada's system. Provincial contracts with US providers proves that. No, a single procedure does not halfwit. That has not been discussed and is intentionally ignorant. He is correct in this regard. US border hospitals do have excess capacity that we utilize since it makes great economic sense. It is the piece that is normally missing when some news reports claims "Canada's system doesnt work cuz they send them down here" The fact is it would cost us, and frankly would be hugely wasteful,for us to build a hospital to serve condition X when for mere pennies on the dollar we can pay the Americans to perform the same function. US hosps are , in many cases, in dire straights and welcome the revenue stream, revenue that is paid promptly and without delay. Not to mention they only have to call one provider, instead of the the thousand they may have to otherwise for an in state resident. Think of it this way.....I dont do much carepntry work, or contracting work around my house. Now my neighbour lives to do that stuff. So.....why would I spend thousands buying a planer,lathe etc, when for a case of beer and a steak dinner as payment, my neighbour will loan it to me . Insert Hospital for lathe and voila Edited February 25, 2011 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think what people mainly fail to realize about our healthcare system is that it is not entirely socialist. Rather, it is a single-payer system financed publically with mostly independent service providers that are often not-for-profit. Compare that with the UK's system where the services are paid for AND provided publically, while in the US services are paid for and provided privately. Ours is a system between the two and I think it works for the most part. How else do you ensure equality in medicare across such a large geographical space with roughly the same population as the state of California? It's not perfect, but I think our system is right for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) ....Compare that with the UK's system where the services are paid for AND provided publically, while in the US services are paid for and provided privately.... This is not true...the US system is a complex mixture of public and private pay AND providers. Government programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, and state programs all function as single payer for enrolled providers and eligible patients. US Veterans Administration hospitals provide direct care, and many local hospitals are operated by counties. The US system is not all private. Edited February 25, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xul Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Then why prolong your or my left even six more years. because the part of your or my brain carrying the soul is still working...... A man is identified----by his fingerprints----I guess FBI/KGB-kinds would like this. Just imagine, if some mischievous ET kids came to Earth and exchanged Obama's soul with Gahdafi's, whom would be your president? I think if a body no longer carries its soul, it will not be regarded as a lived man. This is not a doctors decision....we can call Dr. Kevorkian for the tough cases. I think there isn't any patient who has the right to force a doctor giving him or her an operation if the doctor thinks it is no good for him or her, though I agree he or she has the right to choose another doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjre Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Just imagine, if some mischievous ET kids came to Earth and exchanged Obama's soul with Gahdafi's, whom would be your president? Obama said change in his election. Obama's soul, or any western politician's soul, is just like Faust's soul, which is easy to be changed by the political lobbies and interest groups. He has changed after he accept the Nobel peace price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Do any of you people actually have an idea what the hell you're talking about? Trach's do not hurt. Period. They are a remarkably simple procedure done under local anesthetic (for patients that are awake) and without anesthetic for those already being given drugs such as Propofol. It takes about 1 1/2 seconds to take a patient off of a ventilator, and another 2-3 minutes to extubate them. To take this baby from being intubated to having a free-flow tracheostomy (as would be done) would be a grand total of less than 20 minutes. It is NOT painful, and if the baby really is "brain dead", he would not even notice it being done. If there is VAP (ventilator-associated pneumonia), then the child's breathing would be so laboured that he would likely stop breathing within the minute of removal. Ask me how I know and I'll tell what I did from March 5 to June 15 last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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