The Ultra rich getting richer

[Topaz]

A report out today says the ultra rich are getting richer, no kidding. The rich are getting richer while the middle-class is fighting for every penny in North America. One only has to listen to politicans in both countries, the US and Canada to know the answer. In the US, Obama wants a tax cut for the middle-class, while the Republicans want it for the rich(themselves) too. Here in Canada, its a bit of confusion, yes, the Tories lowered GST, but BC and On are paying more. More Canadians are without jobs, which certainly doesn't make you richer. Canadians personal debts are up, and when is the last time the middle-income earners got a rise in pay? http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/ultra-rich-getting-richer-while-middle-class-stagnates-report-says-111096344.html

[RB]

I don't get it, the rich will have to take from someone in order to get rich and the middleclass hardworking people striving to get to the top seem like the only exploit.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[GostHacked]

I don't get it, the rich will have to take from someone in order to get rich and the middleclass hardworking people striving to get to the top seem like the only exploit.

It is how society is built, on the backs of the middle class.

[M.Dancer]

I don't get it

Obvioulsy.

[RB]

It is how society is built, on the backs of the middle class.

What? this sudden outpouring of righteousness is so hypocritical. The poor is depleting the system more.

Here is my simple scenario, let me know who you would wish to support - on the backs of the middleclass:

- an executive who lay a foundation, toiled, sweat, risk much but also has the smarts to paved the way to the top, as the article points out is now deemed rich.

- the poor who has plenty of opportunities not to become homeless, weighing on luck, think the rich owe them something for the injustices of being poor, sit around the corner with outstretched arm accessing your hard earn dollars that you keep giving. Imagine an entire poor family putting both arms out for your alms.

Edited December 2, 2010 by RB

[bloodyminded]

What? this sudden outpouring of righteousness is so hypocritical. The poor is depleting the system more.

Here is my simple scenario, let me know who you would wish to support - on the backs of the middleclass:

- an executive who lay a foundation, toiled, sweat, risk much but also has the smarts to paved the way to the top, as the article points out is now deemed rich.

- the poor who has plenty of opportunities not to become homeless, weighing on luck, think the rich owe them something for the injustices of being poor, sit around the corner with outstretched arm accessing your hard earn dollars that you keep giving. Imagine an entire poor family putting both arms out for your alms.

Yes, that the poor are causing all the "more deserving" people to suffer is the ancient claim by the class warriors. The top-down class warriors that is, the only kind that have any real influence.

[Bonam]

I don't get it, the rich will have to take from someone in order to get rich

No, that's not how it works. By far the majority of rich people in the West are those who created wealth (or whose parents or grandparents did). For example, did Bill Gates get rich by taking from others? No, he got rich by coming up with a new idea and making it available to people, who saw the value of it and bought it in vast numbers. He used the power of his mind to create new wealth, new value, where none existed before. That is how our economy grows, through innovation and the creation of new wealth. It is right that those who contribute most to this process also reap the greatest rewards.

[blueblood]

No, that's not how it works. By far the majority of rich people in the West are those who created wealth (or whose parents or grandparents did). For example, did Bill Gates get rich by taking from others? No, he got rich by coming up with a new idea and making it available to people, who saw the value of it and bought it in vast numbers. He used the power of his mind to create new wealth, new value, where none existed before. That is how our economy grows, through innovation and the creation of new wealth. It is right that those who contribute most to this process also reap the greatest rewards.

Outstanding!!!

You forgot individuals/companies taking risks on other individuals/companies by offering to finance their growth.

No guts no glory.

[Shwa]

No, that's not how it works. By far the majority of rich people in the West are those who created wealth (or whose parents or grandparents did). For example, did Bill Gates get rich by taking from others? No, he got rich by coming up with a new idea and making it available to people, who saw the value of it and bought it in vast numbers. He used the power of his mind to create new wealth, new value, where none existed before. That is how our economy grows, through innovation and the creation of new wealth. It is right that those who contribute most to this process also reap the greatest rewards.

This explains automobiles, the rise of suburban sprawl, big box malls and the gasoline price gouging nicely. Because "vast numbers" of people buy gasoline thanks to those innovators who came up with the automobile a hundred years ago.

I hardly find the sentiment that those who contribute the most to this process also reap the greatest rewards as convincing. Because that doesn't really explain the ridiculous wealth of some oil barons or some bankers for example.

[Shady]

Outstanding!!!

You forgot individuals/companies taking risks on other individuals/companies by offering to finance their growth.

Exactly. The tired old phrase of the "rich getting richer" makes little sense. Unless of course one expects the owner of a business to fire themselves.

Newsflash. Anyone who makes more money than you is always getting so-called richer. My boss makes more than me. Each year we work, he gets richer than I do. But we have different jobs, different responsibilities, and different positions within the business. Why should I be making the same amount of money as the owner of the business I work for? This type of nonsense talk is retarded, and goes against logic and reason. But it sounds good to say I guess.

[bloodyminded]

Exactly. The tired old phrase of the "rich getting richer" makes little sense.

It's really about relative wealth, and the meteoric rise in disparity that has occurred in a virtual historical page-flip.

Totally aside from one's analysis, beliefs, or feelings on the matter, it's objectively the case. Like saying "we have troops in Afghanistan" is accurate no matter how one feels about the matter.

[bush_cheney2004]

The "ultra rich"...eh? That would be you and I compared to many others in the world.

I never got a job from a poor man.

[M.Dancer]

The "ultra rich"...eh? That would be you and I compared to many others in the world.

I never got a job from a poor man.

True....trying going to a panhandler and asking if he can give you something...best you will get is a communicable itch

[maple_leafs182]

I think the big bankers have it the best, they control the economies of the world and if they make a bad bet like Goldman Sachs did with AIG, it doesn't matter because they just charge their loss to the people. Society has no choice but to comply, if the banks fail society as we know it would collapse, we have become so dependent on the banks that we are willing to give up our wealth too support them.

Debt, probably the best disguised form of slavery yet.

[Moonlight Graham]

Debt, probably the best disguised form of slavery yet.

debt is self-induced. Going into debt, in most cases, is a choice. It's not slavery if you chain yourself to the fence.

[maple_leafs182]

debt is self-induced. Going into debt, in most cases, is a choice. It's not slavery if you chain yourself to the fence.

Debt is the monetary system, without debt there would be no currency in circulation.

[August1991]

A report out today says the ultra rich are getting richer, no kidding. The rich are getting richer while the middle-class is fighting for every penny in North America.

Topaz, are you MapleSyrup reincarnated?

Of course the rich will get richer, and the poor will get richer too. And the spread will widen.

We now have billionaires. Who will be the first trillionaire? Do I care?

Life is not a zero-sum game. If it were, we would still be slime in a primeval ocean.

Topaz, do you care if rich people are rich?

I don't get it, the rich will have to take from someone in order to get rich and the middleclass hardworking people striving to get to the top seem like the only exploit.

Typical zero-sum thinking.

You're wrong, RB. I suggest that you rethink life, and the universe.

Edited December 3, 2010 by August1991

[M.Dancer]

Debt is the monetary system, without debt there would be no currency in circulation.

Debt predates currency.

[Shwa]

Debt predates currency.

Labour predates debt. Time for the workers to rise up again!

[GostHacked]

Labour predates debt. Time for the workers to rise up again!

I'll get my crossbow.

[maple_leafs182]

Debt predates currency.

The only reason you have money in your wallet is because someone borrowed that money for it to come into existence, we have a debt based currency.

[M.Dancer]

The only reason you have money in your wallet is because someone borrowed that money for it to come into existence, we have a debt based currency.

Yeah what ever....i like to think that I earned it and they owed it to me. I would have taken an excess of chickens and rice in lieu of coin, but then I would have had to barter the rice for electricity.

Never the less, debt predates money...so does labour.

[bush_cheney2004]

The only reason you have money in your wallet is because someone borrowed that money for it to come into existence, we have a debt based currency.

False....anybody can create money....but not currency. Learn the difference.

[dre]

No, that's not how it works. By far the majority of rich people in the West are those who created wealth (or whose parents or grandparents did). For example, did Bill Gates get rich by taking from others? No, he got rich by coming up with a new idea and making it available to people, who saw the value of it and bought it in vast numbers. He used the power of his mind to create new wealth, new value, where none existed before. That is how our economy grows, through innovation and the creation of new wealth. It is right that those who contribute most to this process also reap the greatest rewards.

example, did Bill Gates get rich by taking from others?

Lets ask him!

There's nowhere else in the world, nowhere else in the world, that people can accrue the kind of fortunes that happen here. And that's because of the kind of country we have.

And the kind of country we have is a function of the taxes that we pay to provide security, we have a stable market, you can predict next week will be pretty much like the week before.

We have the most immense investment being made by our government in advancing businesses by supporting the enormous research industry that's going on in this country. And it's that piece of government expenditure that which has everything to do with the health and robustness of our economy.

I went to a college; someone else paid for that. I went into the technology field, a whole infrastructure that had been built with public investment that someone else had paid for. I started a company and I hired professional people who had been trained through a subsidized education system. And I made $40 million. And you're telling me society doesn't have a claim on my wealth? You know...

Lets see what he says about disparity of wealth in general as well.

GATES: The huge disparity in wealth that's happening, is something that is, I think, really dangerous.

MOYERS: Why?

GATES: Wealth is power, Bill. And it just is not a good situation. And the examples of the aristocracies of Europe are so clear. We don't want to have a country like that. Who was it that said, it was Louis Brandeis who said...

MOYERS: Justice of the Supreme Court...

GATES: Yes, indeed. And he said, you know, we can either have a situation where we have a small number of people with a huge amount of wealth or we can have a democracy. But we can't have both. That's clear wisdom.

IMO thats absolutely true. You can have a society that concentrate wealth to an obsene degree or you can have democracy. Not both.

Edited December 3, 2010 by dre

[Shwa]

I'll get my crossbow.