The Ultra rich getting richer

[Michael Hardner]

I don't know where you get that from, but I'm sorry you feel that way.

Let's see... taxes are continually falling for the wealthiest earners, and yet we don't hear them or anyone really calling for that to stop.

Can you blame them ? Every sector of society wants more, all the time.

[Oleg Bach]

The economy is a positive sum game. Wealth is created. This idea that you get rich by taking from someone else is absurd. That is simply not how the private sector works. That IS how the public sector works, which is why we have a class war going on in North America. You have the productive private sector, which generates wealth, and the parasitic public sector that lives off everyone else. This is why politics is a crock of shit. The law has turned into an instrument of plunder instead of a defense of property rights and liberty.

Perhaps if you people read a little more economic theory and didn't get your ideas about how the world works from the game monopoly our society would be a little better off.

Wealth is material - it is MATTER - seeing there is a finite amount of matter on the planet earth - If one gets rich - by gathering more material and controling it..then some where - some place else on earth is going to be depleated of matter or material - It's physics...as they say behind every great fortune is a crime. This thread is about the "ULTRA" - rich..nothing wrong with being rich and comfortable and being able to keep the sum of your labour - but to get so rich and powerful that you interfere with the wealth of others is not good..this greed and material gluttony must be contained...

The most powerful people on the planet are not public...and no one really knows who is "ultra" rich....it's the quiet ones that cause the problems.

[Shady]

Let's see... taxes are continually falling for the wealthiest earners

That's not necessarily true.

and yet we don't hear them or anyone really calling for that to stop.

And when did that become their job?

[bush_cheney2004]

....This thread is about the "ULTRA" - rich..nothing wrong with being rich and comfortable and being able to keep the sum of your labour - but to get so rich and powerful that you interfere with the wealth of others is not good..this greed and material gluttony must be contained...

We are "ultra rich" compared to hundreds of millions that scratch out an existence elsewhere, to a degree and scale far greater than the few fat cats you may be thinking of.

[bloodyminded]

But people who get wealthy through theft, through living off lucrative government contracts, people who get rich because their wealth is acquired by using the government to steal from people who actually create wealth, they are not even deserving of the shirts on their back, pathetic parasites that they are.

You mean like private "security firms" such as Xe?

[Michael Hardner]

That's not necessarily true.

The top tax rate in the 1950s was 90% in the US. Not sure what it was in Canada but it was higher. We also had many more brackets.

And when did that become their job?

Exactly. You prove my point. They will always cry a river for lower taxes, and lower earners will take up their cause for some reason. They're doing it still.

[dre]

This isnt about whether its good for people to get rich or not. The pursuit of wealth is the core motivator in our system, and its great when people get rich.

Whats NOT great is if the economic system itself concentrates wealth, because a system that does that cant last, and things will get ugly.

[Oleg Bach]

We are "ultra rich" compared to hundreds of millions that scratch out an existence elsewhere, to a degree and scale far greater than the few fat cats you may be thinking of.

Did not know that - now go get the brandy and cigars - and send some girls in..the kind that arrive by limo.

[bush_cheney2004]

Did not know that - now go get the brandy and cigars - and send some girls in..the kind that arrive by limo.

I will give up cigars and brandy...what will you relinquish to save your soul?

[August1991]

Whats NOT great is if the economic system itself concentrates wealth, because a system that does that cant last, and things will get ugly.

There is no evidence that markets with prices concentrate wealth or power.

Markets with prices encourage innovation, new technology, better ways of organizing and ultimately easier ways to communicate and co-operate.

Some get very rich, and some simply get richer.

----

Back in the real world, some people choose to spend long hours working, scheming, hoping to win the lottery so that they have the means to drive a Bentley. Others are happy to take the metro.

We live in a world where more and more people have more and more choices: they are free to choose.

Now then, in such a world, which mate would you choose? The guy with the Bentley, or the guy in the metro.

[maple_leafs182]

Concentration of wealth and power will always occur in a monetary based economy, it is one of its symptoms. Does not matter if its capitalism or communism, both systems use money, corruption is simply a matter of time in both systems.

Markets with prices encourage innovation, new technology, better ways of organizing and ultimately easier ways to communicate and co-operate.

Markets can also crash putting millions on the streets.

Do you guys not see how much this monetary based economy divides us, how many social and environmental problems it creates.

[M.Dancer]

Concentration of wealth and power will always occur in a monetary based economy, it is one of its symptoms.

It occurs in every society past the old stone age.

Thog became great because he loved his goats..he had more goats than all his neighhbours. They grew jealous of him and tried to steal his goats. With his wealth of goat cheese and goat skins, which he could barter for corn, he hired spearmen and they killed the thieves, taking their wives and children as booty. He sold the children as slaves for more goats. Thog was great.

Would you like Thog to lend you some she goats and one ram? You can have them for one year. Thog will take 1/10th of the kids and 2/5th of the cheese. Thog will be your patron...

[M.Dancer]

Do you guys not see how much this monetary based economy divides us, how many social and environmental problems it creates.

It was worse during the goat based economy. Ever try going on vacation in a goat based economy? The kids are always making a racket and you have to take them everywhere....

[M.Dancer]

I will give up cigars and brandy...what will you relinquish to save your soul?

I gave up lent for lent a decade ago...

[August1991]

Concentration of wealth and power will always occur in a monetary based economy, it is one of its symptoms.

How can you say such nonsense. Go back and look at the BBC video (based on a Swedish statistician) I posted above:

[August1991]

Markets can also crash putting millions on the streets.

Far worse occurred several thousands years ago.

Markets with prices, numbers, are a great advance in human civilization.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Not all wealthy people deserve their wealth. Bill Gates is the perfect example of someone who deserves every dollar he has made (and then some). Imagine a world without Windows. He brought personal computers to the homes of billions. The productivity that has resulted because of his business efforts is incredible. He deserves his billions and then some.

Ironically Bill Gates gives away huge amounts of his money every year. To the tune of billions of dollars at this point.

Edited December 8, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Bonam]

Ironically Bill Gates gives away huge amounts of his money every year. To the tune of billions of dollars at this point.

It's his choice what to do with his money.

[Guest TrueMetis]

It's his choice what to do with his money.

And I applaud him for it, it's just interesting that one of the few current billionaires that actually truly deserves his money is also one of the few giving a lot of it away.

[Michael Hardner]

It occurs in every society past the old stone age.

Thog became great because he loved his goats..he had more goats than all his neighhbours. They grew jealous of him and tried to steal his goats. With his wealth of goat cheese and goat skins, which he could barter for corn, he hired spearmen and they killed the thieves, taking their wives and children as booty. He sold the children as slaves for more goats. Thog was great.

Would you like Thog to lend you some she goats and one ram? You can have them for one year. Thog will take 1/10th of the kids and 2/5th of the cheese. Thog will be your patron...

Yes, but before virtual money, or whatever you want to call it, it was impossible for Thog to get a billion goats.

[M.Dancer]

Yes, but before virtual money, or whatever you want to call it, it was impossible for Thog to get a billion goats.

Thog couldn't count to a thousand...to give you en example of what the ancients considered rich....

For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.

[Pliny]

debt is self-induced. Going into debt, in most cases, is a choice. It's not slavery if you chain yourself to the fence.

It is to the person who can convince someone to chain themselves to a fence. No one in their right mind would do so. However, if the alternative is less attractive, one may choose to chain himself to the fence and in the case of debt, it is the preferable alternative while there is escape for only a select few.

The OP is of course the bleating of the left and their divisive invitation to engage in class warfare. It seems we all have to be made equal first before we can be treated equally. Until that time, we must encourage and follow a policy of class warfare.

I don't know why it escapes the left that the more that wealth is redistributed by government tax policies the bigger the split in the rich and poor. The problem isn't that the rich are getting richer, who cares, the problem is that the middle class are being relegated to the ranks of the poor because they used to be part of the rich that needed to be taxed and fell victim to high taxes and the added curse of inflation. If we were all millionaires it wouldn't mean we were rich. Zimbabweans all became billionaires almost overnight, well it took about twenty years of inflation.

[Oleg Bach]

I will give up cigars and brandy...what will you relinquish to save your soul?

Here is my Christmas message directly from the throne...The soul is simply animated matter..once the flesh is gone - it is gone for ever also....Holy spirit is the mind of God - to allow this good parasite to reside in your body...generates long life and good health - along with some wisdom...I don't give a damn about my body in the end or that stupid thing you call a soul - that does not exist..the soul is meat. Okay ...that was revealing on my part...try to empty yourself and get a refill of the good stuff ...soul is for the now departed James Brown who now has none.

[Pliny]

Do you guys not see how much this monetary based economy divides us, how many social and environmental problems it creates.

It is what we do with it that makes it a problem. We have basically allowed a select few to control the money supply. It isn't that money itself is a problem that creates social and environmental problems.

[dre]

Ironically Bill Gates gives away huge amounts of his money every year. To the tune of billions of dollars at this point.

He also understands that he accumulated 1000 times as much wealth because of the kind of society he operates in, and because of the huge investment by the public in the technology and infrastructure and people that are part of his operation. Hes a huge supporter of a large estate tax that will cycle wealth back into the pool so that others can compete for it, and he thinks its unhealthy for society to allow the extreme concentration of wealth (and therefore political power) into the hands of the few.