Omar Khadr

[Saipan]

Children, however, have a right to special recognition and treatment.

That's why he's treated very special. Else he would get a bullet in the head long ago.

[dizzy]

.

And normally he would be, however one must follow the conventions to be afforded protection under them, we can't pick which one we like or dislike.

That being said something, last night i had a conversation with someone in the JAG office, while Omar has been charged and tried in the US some of the conventions the US has not signed as you suggest, and under Canadian law the findings may of been different...

That being said The child soldier agreement was never really challanged and i'm not sure why, nor did Canada challange it either. along with the rest of the world, that i'm aware of anyways. which leaqaves me of the opinion everyone is good with the fact that Omar was an illegal combatant and not afforded any protection under any of the conventions, beside a very few....

The child soldier agreement, if you're talking about the protocol on the involvement of children in armed conflict, was written in a more Geneva style pen. It's an example of my general frustration with the UN because it has more to do with countries taking responsibility for the membership of their official military organizations. Problem is, most child soldiers are indebted, indoctrinated, raped and/or drugged in by 'rebel' forces, not governments.

I'm unclear why Omar should not be protected by the CRC, though. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve punishment for a crime for which he is convicted, but to be held 8 yrs without trial and in conditions that included torture is definitely beyond what Canada should have accepted when she turned her head away.

[dizzy]

That's why he's treated very special. Else he would get a bullet in the head long ago.

He's treated uniquely from the other prisoners at gitmo?

[Saipan]

He's treated uniquely from the other prisoners at gitmo?

Yes, there's no any such pointless fuss about the others.

[dizzy]

Yes, there's no any such pointless fuss about the others.

The 'fuss' is because he's a canadian and so our media is covering his story. He's not unique in terms of his treatment, especially with respect to the CRC.

[Saipan]

The 'fuss' is because he's a canadian

Only on paper. Just like those "canadians" living in Lebanon.

[eyeball]

Only on paper. Just like those "canadians" living in Lebanon.

When citizenship is on paper, it's even more official.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Only on paper. Just like those "canadians" living in Lebanon.

As opposed to? Paper is the only way anyone can be a Canadian, you don't get to be Canadian just by living here.

[Saipan]

As opposed to? Paper is the only way anyone can be a Canadian, you don't get to be Canadian just by living here.

That is what will soon change. We don't need bunch of foreigners with citizenship and alegiance to other countries who only call themself "canadians" to use our pssports.

You'll get it soon as the difference between law and justice get clearer to many younger generation Canadians.

[Guest TrueMetis]

That is what will soon change. We don't need bunch of foreigners with citizenship and alegiance to other countries who only call themself "canadians" to use our pssports.

And just how long has your family been in Canada? Most of the people I meet spouting this crap can trace their family back maybe 500 years, and in the grand scheme of things that makes you just as much of a foreigner as the guy who got off the boat yesterday. Because I know a lot of second generation immigrants that seem a lot more Canadian to me than you do. A rather large part of Canada is that being Canadian has nothing to do with were you where born and everything to do with how you act. You sir fail, hand in you passport and leave, sounds like you'd be a lot more comfortable in the US anyway.

You'll get it soon as the difference between law and justice get clearer to many younger generation Canadians.

For the most part they sync up pretty good, but then you've got the morons campaigning to make it less about justice and more about punishment. Which is of course pretty much the opposite of justice.

Edited October 31, 2010 by TrueMetis

[dizzy]

Only on paper. Just like those "canadians" living in Lebanon.

Are you suggesting that there should be two legal classes of Canadian citizenship?

[ironstone]

And just how long has your family been in Canada? Most of the people I meet spouting this crap can trace their family back maybe 500 years, and in the grand scheme of things that makes you just as much of a foreigner as the guy who got off the boat yesterday. Because I know a lot of second generation immigrants that seem a lot more Canadian to me than you do. A rather large part of Canada is that being Canadian has nothing to do with were you where born and everything to do with how you act. You sir fail, hand in you passport and leave, sounds like you'd be a lot more comfortable in the US anyway.

For the most part they sync up pretty good, but then you've got the morons campaigning to make it less about justice and more about punishment. Which is of course pretty much the opposite of justice.

Apparently,being Canadian these days means not even having to reside in Canada at all,which is truly moronic.It seems that there are a lot of people who are Canadians of convenience,like Omar Khadr or the one's that live most of the time in Lebanon for example.They don't pay taxes here and contribute virtually nothing to this country,but when the sh*t hit the fan in Lebanon a few years ago,they suddenly became Canadians in need.

What is it about this country that we feel that our citizens can do whatever they bloody well like in other countries and only be subject our very lenient justice system after all is said and done?

[Saipan]

And just how long has your family been in Canada?

Little longer than average Canadian. I came in 1969. My wife 5 months ago.

Who wants to know?

Most of the people I meet spouting this crap can trace their family back maybe 500 years, and in the grand scheme of things that makes you just as much of a foreigner......

Really? So what is the "grand scheme"? We had people who talked like that in Europe. We called them skinheads.

[Smallc]

Apparently,being Canadian these days means not even having to reside in Canada at all,which is truly moronic.

It's moronic? That's the way it's always been, and the way that it is in most countries.

[wulf42]

Wow....the U.S. sentenced him to a symbolic 40 years, too bad they decided on the plea deal they could have put this terrorist away for good....

[Topaz]

Just look at the differences between the sentencing of Khadr and US Johnny Walker who was a US citizen and twenty years old. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh

[Saipan]

As opposed to?

Canadians living here with one citizenship.

No allegiance to another country.

[capricorn]

So. Omar Khadr will spend one more year in US custody. He will ask to be transferred to a facility in Canada where he'll apply for parole and be freed within a year of his return to Canada.

If that's the way it unfolds, in Canadian justice lingo that means Khadr's sentence is really a 30 year sentence. Do the math. By all accounts, he was a good and cooperative inmate. So, had he been prosecuted in Canada and received a 30 year sentence, under Canadian law he'd only serve 10 because of the 3 for 1 rule, which almost exactly would equal time served (9 years, US and 1 year, Canada).

Khadr's aspiration is to study medicine at a Canadian Christian school. Tuition shouldn't be problem with the millions he'll pocket from his lawsuit against the government. Gee, in 5 or 6 years he should have a thriving medical practice in Toronto. Who would have thought there's a chance Dr. Omar Khadr would help fill the void for doctors in Ontario?

Khadr, who made the occasional grammatical error as he spoke, said his first wish upon being released would be to resume his education, and that he eventually hoped to be a doctor.

---

An English professor at King’s University College, a small Christian college in Edmonton, said she would write Khadr a recommendation if he applied.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/really+sorry+Khadr+soldier+widow/3740889/story.html

[Sir Bandelot]

Khadr's aspiration is to study medicine at a Canadian Christian school. Tuition shouldn't be problem with the millions he'll pocket from his lawsuit against the government. Gee, in 5 or 6 years he should have a thriving medical practice in Toronto. Who would have thought there's a chance Dr. Omar Khadr would help fill the void for doctors in Ontario?

Fascinating, I have always wanted to be a doctor too. Who do I have to kill first?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Apparently,being Canadian these days means not even having to reside in Canada at all,which is truly moronic.It seems that there are a lot of people who are Canadians of convenience,like Omar Khadr or the one's that live most of the time in Lebanon for example.They don't pay taxes here and contribute virtually nothing to this country,but when the sh*t hit the fan in Lebanon a few years ago,they suddenly became Canadians in need.

They also don't consume any government services, but yes when the Sh!t hits the fan they should expect their government to help them.

What is it about this country that we feel that our citizens can do whatever they bloody well like in other countries and only be subject our very lenient justice system after all is said and done?

Actually I feel that our citizens shouldn't be subject to the illegal laws of other countries. Or laws that we find morally repugnant.

Little longer than average Canadian. I came in 1969. My wife 5 months ago.

Who wants to know?

Someone who's family has been in Canada since people first arrived here.

Really? So what is the "grand scheme"? We had people who talked like that in Europe. We called them skinheads.

Let me lay it out to you in simple terms, humans have existed on this planet for about a quarter million years. The oldest civilizations are dated back to the 30th century BCe, with one of those civilization existing in South America. People have lived in the Americas for at least 10000 years, possibly longer. So hearing some idiot who's family has been here for less than 500 years calling other people foreigners you can see how I think it's idiotic.

Canadians living here with one citizenship.

No allegiance to another country.

Just because you have Canadian citizenship and only Canadian citizenship doesn't mean you'll be loyal to Canada.

[Bryan]

humans have existed on this planet for about a quarter million years. The oldest civilizations are dated back to the 30th century BCe, with one of those civilization existing in South America. People have lived in the Americas for at least 10000 years, possibly longer. So hearing some idiot who's family has been here for less than 500 years calling other people foreigners you can see how I think it's idiotic.

If Canadian citizenship actually existed that long ago, you might have a point. Since it hasn't, you don't.

[Guest TrueMetis]

If Canadian citizenship actually existed that long ago, you might have a point. Since it hasn't, you don't.

My point was that how long you or your family has lived somewhere is irrelevant to you being a foreigner or not. Could have made that a bit more clear I guess.

[Army Guy]

No one has a "Right" to be a terrorist, at least according to the legislative documents that I have been exposed to. Children, however, have a right to special recognition and treatment.

I'm not defending Omar or the Khadr's or AQ. I'm trying to explore the correct application of law and international treaty.

perhaps i should have been alittle clearer, an individual has the right to make choices, be it Legal or illigal those choices can be freely made, we must however live with the consquences of our actions or choices.

The child soldier agreement, if you're talking about the protocol on the involvement of children in armed conflict, was written in a more Geneva style pen. It's an example of my general frustration with the UN because it has more to do with countries taking responsibility for the membership of their official military organizations. Problem is, most child soldiers are indebted, indoctrinated, raped and/or drugged in by 'rebel' forces, not governments.

The Agreement does touch on and was orginally penned to cover both official militaries and the min age one can be involved in combat operations. but it also included the child soldiers coming out of the African conflicts, it has serveral paras, which deal with their treatment, touches on punishment and medical / mental health aspects. But as with any UN document it is written by a bunch of lawyers in a language that is not clear to us laymen, and should have covered or cleared up things like illigal combatants etc...

I'm unclear why Omar should not be protected by the CRC, though. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve punishment for a crime for which he is convicted, but to be held 8 yrs without trial and in conditions that included torture is definitely beyond what Canada should have accepted when she turned her head away.

Agreed, our government has bungled this from the start.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Army Guy

[Bryan]

My point was that how long you or your family has lived somewhere is irrelevant to you being a foreigner or not. Could have made that a bit more clear I guess.

My point was that you're picking and choosing. How long someone or their ancestry has resided in a given geographic area is a different thing from their citizenship. You can have a historic tie to a place that has no connection to the citizenship of a specific officially incorporated country.

Khadr is either a citizen of Canada (in which case, he's should be tried for treason upon his return), or he's not and we have to reason to repatriate him.

[noahbody]

Khadr is either a citizen of Canada (in which case, he's should be tried for treason upon his return), or he's not and we have to reason to repatriate him.

Khadr will never be tried for treason because his family is close friends with bin Laden and there would most definitely be retaliation. This is why, I assume anyway, his mother has never been tried when she clearly committed treason.