Chrisitne O'donnell wins Delaware

[Smallc]

If you think Reagan was a moron, than you're a moron.

Oh no, did he say a bad thing about the right wing hero?

[nicky10013]

If you think Reagan was a moron, than you're a moron. Either that, or you just like to call people you disagree with morons. Regardless, perhaps you should resort to more intellectual arguments instead of tossing the term moron every other sentence. Because you're starting to sound like a complete moron.

In my first year at U of T, the political science department organized a speech and talk by Colin Powell who served as Joint Chiefs of Staff under Reagan. He told an incredibly interesting anecdote. One morning in the oval office, he was giving Reagan his daily briefing. At the end of the briefing, he realized Reagan hadn't paid attention to anything he had to say. He said to Powell, "Colin, do you see that chipmunk, out the window over there?" Another anecdote was from a bi-lateral meeting between Reagan and Trudeau. Reagan told shitty jokes to the point where Trudeau, who wanted to talk about serious issues, finally got so pissed where he stormed out of the room.

What we have to remember is that Reagan was an actor. He acted his way through his presidency while the people behind the scenes called the shots. Not to mention the time near the end where he couldn't make decisions due to his alzheimers. He believed what he believed, you know..."grrr communism" but how much he actually understood is still up to debate. The way American conservatives see him today is far more myth than reality. They've created a god like figure, not unlike Lenin, and attribute things to him that either never happened or were in complete contrast to his actual beliefs. Like Lenin in the USSR, though, if he would've liked it, it's where the party should go! It's a good manipulation tool to a base that can't really be bothered with history - or fact.

Of course, no Conservative will admit this, because it's like telling a kid that Santa Clause doesn't exist. They've put all the good things into this one man while purposefully neglecting the negative. It's like East Berliners and Communism (not to say Reagan was that horrible, just the state of mind is the same.). The majority of people who lived in East Berlin actively vote communist and it has spurned an entire industry and coined a term. Ost-algie (Ost being the German for east). They remember things like cheap items, full employment, good wages but forget things like the Stasi, fixed elections and empty stores.

Edited September 19, 2010 by nicky10013

[bush_cheney2004]

....What we have to remember is that Reagan was an actor. He acted his way through his presidency while the people behind the scenes called the shots.

Reagan was also a Democrat, and later the governor of California. Who were the people acting behind the scenes? As for myth, assassination attempts have way of doing that. Nixon told Reagan that Trudeau was a complete waste of time!

[Shady]

Of course, no Conservative will admit this, because it's like telling a kid that Santa Clause doesn't exist.

Unfortunately for you, historians and world leaders don't share your partisan view. The tired old meme about Reagan "just being an actor", saves you from actually having to use your brain. It's the cowards way out. Most of you people still hold a grudge for Ronald Reagan because he utterly destroyed your comrades in the Soviet Union. Who you share principles and ideals with. You're just a sore loser, buried on the scrap-heap with the rest of history's losers.

Move on and get over it.

[GostHacked]

If you think Reagan was a moron, than you're a moron. Either that, or you just like to call people you disagree with morons. Regardless, perhaps you should resort to more intellectual arguments instead of tossing the term moron every other sentence. Because you're starting to sound like a complete moron.

We won't get into your use of the word 'idiot'. Simply do a forum search for it.

[ToadBrother]

If you think Reagan was a moron, than you're a moron. Either that, or you just like to call people you disagree with morons. Regardless, perhaps you should resort to more intellectual arguments instead of tossing the term moron every other sentence. Because you're starting to sound like a complete moron.

Reagan was a moron with good advisers, well for the most part good advisers. The whole Iron-Contra thing indicated some lapses in judgment on the part of those whispering in his ear.

I've never understood the level of worship you conservatives exhibit at the mention of the Gipper, or how shockingly upset you get when someone is critical of him. No one is perfect, and Reagan's faults from the beginning of his political career to the end was his myopic view of the world and the fact that he was a moron. They were shortcomings he overcame at critical points both as governor of California and as President. But they were shortcomings nonetheless. Particularly towards the end of his presidency, whether because of the beginnings of his senility or for other reasons, he seemed to lose the thread fairly substantially.

If Sarah Palin had the kind of people behind her that Reagan had behind him, I might feel differently. But what she's got is a pack of malcontented Libertarian nutjobs. I doubt she personally can spell "Libertarian", but she shouts well and looks pretty good, so what does that matter?

You see what I mean here. It's not always bad to be the figurehead, but at least be the figurehead of something sane and rational, and not just angry people who hate Mexicans and the working poor getting some decent medical benefits.

Edited September 19, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Jack Weber]

Reagan was a moron with good advisers, well for the most part good advisers. The whole Iron-Contra thing indicated some lapses in judgment on the part of those whispering in his ear.

I've never understood the level of worship you conservatives exhibit at the mention of the Gipper, or how shockingly upset you get when someone is critical of him. No one is perfect, and Reagan's faults from the beginning of his political career to the end was his myopic view of the world and the fact that he was a moron. They were shortcomings he overcame at critical points both as governor of California and as President. But they were shortcomings nonetheless. Particularly towards the end of his presidency, whether because of the beginnings of his senility or for other reasons, he seemed to lose the thread fairly substantially.

If Sarah Palin had the kind of people behind her that Reagan had behind him, I might feel differently. But what she's got is a pack of malcontented Libertarian nutjobs. I doubt she personally can spell "Libertarian", but she shouts well and looks pretty good, so what does that matter?

You see what I mean here. It's not always bad to be the figurehead, but at least be the figurehead of something sane and rational, and not just angry people who hate Mexicans and the working poor getting some decent medical benefits.

I'll go even one farther..

If the "Hacky Mam" ever gains the oval office,she'll have the signatories to the PNAC document in her ear and I'l bet that somewhere between 6 months to a year into her "Presidency" there will be an all out war...I suspect it'll be in the Middle East...

And I'll bet the same lemminglike "patriots" will be at it again,beating the war drums and questioning anyone who questions the "Hacky Mam's" motives as subversive and cowardly....

[Jack Weber]

We won't get into your use of the word 'idiot'. Simply do a forum search for it.

In this thread alone he's called me a dirtbag,ToadBrother a moron,and,Nicky a coward and a Communist(the Commie thing always being Reagan's bugaboo)..

Methinks Professor Kitzel's getting pissy???

I'm assuming "idiot" will be forthcoming???

Edited September 19, 2010 by Jack Weber

[waldo]

In this thread alone he's called me a dirtbag,ToadBrother a moron,and,Nicky a coward and a Communist(the Commie thing always being Reagan's bugaboo)..

Methinks Professor Kitzel's getting pissy???

I'm assuming "idiot" will be forthcoming???

you mean... this is what one misses when you have the Shady practices guy on ignore? How about his ever present ready-reach for the McCarthyesque label? Has the Professor been playing that card lately, as well?

[waldo]

If this Tea Party I'm reading about forces Democrats and Republicans to do some real soul searching, I think it's a good thing that can only benefit US citizens.

hey, I hears ya... the Tea Party recognition/reach is a phenom in the making - the world is watching

[bloodyminded]

Look...I'm a Christian,but I'm not a biblical literalist...Some of The Bible is not to be taken literally,particularily things that any sane person can see.And frankly,anyone that does think like this is not fit for public office...Ever....

Of course you're not a Biblical literalist. Most Christians, being normal and intelligent human beings, are not.

[punked]

“I’ll tell you, I just came back from the Middle East, and it was refreshing. With all that is going on, it was refreshing not to be constantly bombarded with smut all the time.” -O'Donnell

Bet Shady agrees with her right Shady???? CRAZY HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/09/18/odonnell.ethics/index.html?hpt=C2

At issue are more than $20,000 of spending in 2009 and 2010 that Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington claims was illegal.

"It turns out Miss O'Donnell has treated her campaign funds like they are her very own personal piggy bank. She's used that money to pay for things like her rent, for gas, meals and even a bowling outing. And that's just flat-out illegal," said Melanie Sloan, the group's executive director.

Oh noes !!!!

[punked]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/09/18/odonnell.ethics/index.html?hpt=C2

Oh noes !!!!

As Shady says as long as it is a Republican it is ok.

[GostHacked]

As Shady says as long as it is a Republican it is ok.

Also check out at the bottom of the article, where it says there are no more moderate republicans, they are a dying breed.

[ToadBrother]

Also check out at the bottom of the article, where it says there are no more moderate republicans, they are a dying breed.

That makes it sound like they're just slowly fading away. They're not. They're being actively hunted down. It's the Democrats' wet dream. Get a bunch of Tea Party types to go after the moderates, then the Tea Party types can do what they seem to do best, mouth off, and the Democratic candidates can step in and say "Hi, I'm the sane candidate."

[Shady]

Of course you're not a Biblical literalist. Most Christians, being normal and intelligent human beings, are not.

What about most Muslims? Are they Qu'ran literalists? Or are they normal, intelligent human beings?

[Shady]

"Hi, I'm the sane candidate."

Yes, only in your partisan world is a self-described marxist the "sane candidate." Not to mention that Democrats have hunted down their moderates as well. However, some people feel that the economic and fiscal situation in America is so serious that so-called moderates aren't what's needed. In many cases, moderates were the ones digging the hole.

[GostHacked]

What about most Muslims? Are they Qu'ran literalists? Or are they normal, intelligent human beings?

Good question, can you answer it?

[bloodyminded]

What about most Muslims? Are they Qu'ran literalists? Or are they normal, intelligent human beings?

Most are normal, intelligent human beings.

Was that a serious question?

Edited September 19, 2010 by bloodyminded

[BubberMiley]

Yes, only in your partisan world is a self-described marxist the "sane candidate."

Even when the term is used sarcastically?

Meanwhile, O'Donnell wasn't being sarcastic at all when she said she "dabbled in witchcraft."

[nicky10013]

Unfortunately for you, historians and world leaders don't share your partisan view.

Get me a historian who didn't work for him or currently works for the Republican Party that agrees with this and I'll cede the point. Unfortunately, these "historians" don't exist.

Furthermore, he didn't destroy the Soviet Union. We've had this discussion before but I'll add an interesting anecdote. The part of the speech where he asked Gorbachev to tear down the wall was only added in the limo on the way to the speech. He had to be persuaded to do it by his aides. So, he sounds tough on communism, but how tough was he really? He and Gorbachev were great friends.

Edited September 19, 2010 by nicky10013

[bloodyminded]

Get me a historian who didn't work for him or currently works for the Republican Party that agrees with this and I'll cede the point. Unfortunately, these "historians" don't exist.

Furthermore, he didn't destroy the Soviet Union. We've had this discussion before but I'll add an interesting anecdote. The part of the speech where he asked Gorbachev to tear down the wall was only added in the limo on the way to the speech. He had to be persuaded to do it by his aides. So, he sounds tough on communism, but how tough was he really? He and Gorbachev were great friends.

The Reagan myths are strange, sad phenomena. Above all, they underline some need for a Great Man to follow and admire.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Reagan myths are strange, sad phenomena. Above all, they underline some need for a Great Man to follow and admire.

Why are they "sad"? How do you reconcile your position with similar Trudeau myths, other than eschewing nationalism of any kind? By any measure, Ronald Reagan lived a long and significant life for his nation, like many others, and American / international history only reflects this.

Edited September 19, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[bloodyminded]

Why are they "sad"? How do you reconcile your position with similar Trudeau myths, other than eschewing nationalism of any kind? By any measure, Ronald Reagan lived a long and significant life for his nation, like many others, and American / international history only reflects this.

My position is precisely reconciled with my view of the facile Trudeau myths.

Edited September 19, 2010 by bloodyminded