Mosque going up in NYC building

[Shady]

Islam HAS been dealing with the issue and with the problem

They definitely have been. Unfortunately, the rest of your post is complete nonsense and not ground at all in reality.

[BubberMiley]

Sounds as if he has real good ethics:

Your argument wasn't working so you're resorting to character assassination now? Nice work.

[Shady]

Your argument wasn't working so you're resorting to character assassination now? Nice work.

Her post involves new information that wasn't previously known. But I'm not sure how reality is tantamount to character assassination.

[GostHacked]

Apparently Imam Rauf is being sued.

An imam at the center of a dispute over plans to build a mosque near ground zero is being sued by a northern New Jersey community where he owns two apartment buildings.

... the lawsuit charges Feisal Abdul Rauf hasn't addressed complaints by tenants and orders from the city to correct code violations.

link

Sounds as if he has real good ethics:

Well, that sounds like many landlords out there. The money is not invested back into the buildings. And they have a right to sue. However, overall I think this is irrelevant to the question of the mosque itself.

Buuut .. I would not let him oversee any other property based on that information.

[Shady]

However, overall I think this is irrelevant to the question of the mosque itself.

Probably. But this isn't...

Ground Zero Mosque Group Includes 9/11 Denier

a trove of videos and writings available on the Internet shows that a longtime partner of Rauf believes the 9/11 terror attacks were "an inside job" by U.S. government and corporate interests

...

Faiz Khan, a physician who claims to have been a first responder after the September 11 attacks, is a founding member of the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth and is on the advisory board of the Muslims for 9/11 Truth. In an essay on the Alliance's website, he argued that "the prime factor for the success of the criminal mission known as 9/11 did not come from the quarter known as 'militant Islam' although the phenomenon known as 'militant Islamic networks' may have played a partial role, or even a less than partial role - perhaps the role of patsy and scapegoat."

...

Khan's photograph on the Sufi site comes from this 2005 speech he gave explaining his beliefs about the 9/11 attacks. Cropped out is a sign behind Khan that reads "Expose the 9/11 Cover-Up."

Link

[GostHacked]

Probably. But this isn't...

Alex Jones should be BEGGING him for an interview.

[Guest American Woman]

Your argument wasn't working so you're resorting to character assassination now? Nice work.

Well, that sounds like many landlords out there. The money is not invested back into the buildings. And they have a right to sue. However, overall I think this is irrelevant to the question of the mosque itself.

Buuut .. I would not let him oversee any other property based on that information.

Really? Bringing up facts is "character assassination?"

If you think how he has overseen his property, looked out for his renters, if you think locking people out of their apartments isn't a sign of poor ethics, then that says a lot about you. As for me, I rightfully see it as a sign of his character, or lacking character, and if he doesn't care about his tenants, I'm wondering how I'm supposed to believe he cares about anyone else outside of his 'interests.'

His character most definitely is related to this issue, as he is making a lot of claims regarding the purpose of this project, and his character tells us whether or not we should believe him. And this, Well, that sounds like many landlords out there, sounds as if Gosthacked is downplaying, if not downright making excuses, for what he's done/doing. Unbelievable the length you will go to to defend him/anything associated with this project.

"Violating 12 fire codes," " a fire broke out," "boarding it up and barring people from their apartments" rather than deal with it.

And you attack me for bringing it up?

But keep defending him and attacking me. It looks real good on both of you.

Edited September 15, 2010 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

If you think how he has overseen his property, looked out for his renters, if you think locking people out of their apartments isn't a sign of poor ethics, then that says a lot about you. As for me, I rightfully see it as a sign of his character, or lacking character, and if he doesn't care about his tenants, I'm wondering how I'm supposed to believe he cares about anyone else outside of his 'interests.'

So THIS is where the money is coming from to build the mosque. Anyways

His character most definitely is related to this issue, as he is making a lot of claims regarding the purpose of this project, and his character tells us whether or not we should believe him. And this, Well, that sounds like many landlords out there, sounds as if Gosthacked is downplaying, if not downright making excuses, for what he's done/doing. Unbelievable the length you will go to to defend him/anything associated with this project.

If that's the case, then the place won't be safe even for Muslims.

"Violating 12 fire codes," " a fire broke out," "boarding it up and barring people from their apartments" rather than deal with it.

And you attack me for bringing it up?

But keep defending him and attacking me. It looks real good on both of you.

Hmm, I'd say my statement would be more apologetic than defending. Glad you know the difference. And it's not an apology, just reality some landlords can be asshats. Part of the reason I am saving up to buy a freakin house.

Is the suing in light of him being in the public spotlight? Or is this old hat?

[kimmy]

Your argument wasn't working so you're resorting to character assassination now? Nice work.

The supermosque supporters have made Imam Rauf's character a focal point of this discussion, so it's entirely fair.

-k

[kimmy]

Now, it is a fact that one person (namely kimmy) has introduced the issue of the treatment of women in the debate. Nope, she hasn't made the claims I didn't say anyone has made. But if she believes it's relevant, then she is welcome to show why it is relevant.

I wasn't going to respond to this because it looked like the thread was almost dead, but now that the thread's back on I'll address this.

My mention of the treatment of women in Islam was not offered as a reason why the mosque should not be built.

I mentioned it as a response to Nicky3000 who asked why I didn't feel the spread of Islam in North America was something to celebrate.

Nicky's view is that since many North American Muslims are far more enlightened than their third-world counterparts, my dislike for Islam is completely unfounded.

My view is that Islam, even for fuzzy-wuzzy progressive North American Muslims, is at least as patriarchal and patronizing of women as the Catholics, my dislike of it is entirely rational.

Would many feminists be stoked to hear that Catholicism was making a big comeback in North America? Personally, I kind of doubt it.

***

I've been told that Imam Rauf is a liberal. After reading the excerpts of his book freely available on the Harper-Collins website, I disagree. Willing to discuss.

-k

[waldo]

The supermosque supporters

do you also supersize your fries?

[dre]

do you also supersize your fries?

The hyperbole is pretty funny.

The "UTRA-MEGGA-MOSQUE" ... "TOWERING OVER" and "CASTING ITS SHADOW" on the 911 memorial. THE HUMANITY!!!!

Never mind the fact that its 3 floors of a relatively small 13 story building thats about 4 blocks from the memorial.

[CA26]

In a building damaged by debris from the Sept. 11 airliners that brought down the World Trade Center and soon to become a 13-story mosque, some see the bridging of a cultural divide and an opportunity to serve a burgeoning, peaceful religious population. Others see a painful reminder of the religious extremism that killed their loved ones. link

It seems as if there's a really mixed reaction to having a Mosque so close to Ground Zero. Some are saying it's a great setting for moderate Muslims to try to bridge gaps and an opportunity for moderate Muslims' voices to be heard, but some who lost loved ones think it's more or less a slap in the face.

"I think it's despicable, and I think it's atrocious that anyone would even consider allowing them to build a mosque near the World Trade Center," said Rosemary Cain, whose son, George Cain, a firefighter, died on Sept. 11.

According to the article, the groundbreaking will be announced later this year, possibly coinciding with the tenth anniversary of the attacks. I'm thinking that could be viewed as a little insensitive by some, but of course moderate Muslims had nothing to do with 9-11, so I'm sure that's the message they want to get across.

Ultimately, while I can understand why some would be sensitive to the idea, if moderate Muslims do want to speak out and be heard more, it seems as if it's a good idea.

[nicky10013]

I wasn't going to respond to this because it looked like the thread was almost dead, but now that the thread's back on I'll address this.

My mention of the treatment of women in Islam was not offered as a reason why the mosque should not be built.

I mentioned it as a response to Nicky3000 who asked why I didn't feel the spread of Islam in North America was something to celebrate.

Nicky's view is that since many North American Muslims are far more enlightened than their third-world counterparts, my dislike for Islam is completely unfounded.

My view is that Islam, even for fuzzy-wuzzy progressive North American Muslims, is at least as patriarchal and patronizing of women as the Catholics, my dislike of it is entirely rational.

Would many feminists be stoked to hear that Catholicism was making a big comeback in North America? Personally, I kind of doubt it.

***

I've been told that Imam Rauf is a liberal. After reading the excerpts of his book freely available on the Harper-Collins website, I disagree. Willing to discuss.

-k

Why aren't there protests against the building of churches then? As for his book, rather than making vague statements about his not being a liberal, how about you back it up with page number cited passages?

[Guest American Woman]

Why aren't there protests against the building of churches then?

Clearly she said lack of excitement over Islam spreading was not the reason for the protest; it's in the very post you quoted and responded to: "My mention of the treatment of women in Islam was not offered as a reason why the mosque should not be built."

So that's not why there aren't protests against the building of churches.

As for his not being a liberal, I quoted an OP by an American Muslim, the founder and president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy based in Phoenix, Ariz., who says Rauf not a liberal. I've noticed no one has any comments on the actual points he made. I'm not surprised.

Edited September 15, 2010 by American Woman

[Oleg Bach]

The new governor of New York State - Will put a stop to this polically correct nonsense...What the hell is wrong with our culture - which ORIGINALLY was a Judean Christian one..It was Christianity and all it's precepts and glory that built up New York...Islam are NOT entitled to such privledge as to assert what for all intent and purpose is a MONUMENT to the glory and victory of Mohamid over the infidels in New York City --

Remember - it was not a Jew - secularist - Christian or anyone else that HOLOCAUSTED over 3000 people in one fail swoop - It was a group of Saudi - Arabian Muslims...the operation that was 9/11 - was funded in full by the Saudi elite...and NOW that same elite has the gaul to fund a Mosque on what is a grave sight of the conquered (in their minds)...

The proplem here does not lie with Islam but with our oil merchants who have great political and finacial power...they did NOT confront those responsible for the funding of the holocausting..because they are buisness partners and partners in crime . It is this great disloyality that should be adressed ....Why did America not launch a retalatory strike against the funders of 9/11?

So off we go blaming the Muslims - in effect it was the infidel SAUDI royal family that gave the okay to attack AMERICA - these infidel western made kings of oil...are godless bastards .. and now the same people that funded the killing of 3000 American citizens - will NOW fund a monument to their dominance over America - not just though oil but now through so-called religion ...and the polically correct nit wit lefties...welcome getting screwed in the ass by the Saudis.....which is not strange in the fact that they welcome getting screwed in the ass by all.

[Oleg Bach]

ALSO.........this is a great turning point as far as the western world and what it stands for......a choice must be made NOW - and it is simple as we envision the future ....

WILL WE DOMINATE WESTERN SOCIETY - OR WILL ISLAM DOMINATE IT? that is the ultimate question.............

And be aware _ Islam will attempt to take over....will we toss aside our own heritage - the traditions of our great grand parents...2000 years of dedication to our lord and king Jesus Christ...and allow Mohmid the prince of war - over throw Jesus Christ the prince of peace and freedom?

[DogOnPorch]

do you also supersize your fries?

When I doubt...infer a woman is fat. What a cheap shot. May a 1200lb grizzly sow + cubs sit on your car. Perhaps you can use the fries you bought earlier to tempt her to move. Perhaps not.

[dre]

When I doubt...infer a woman is fat. What a cheap shot. May a 1200lb grizzly sow + cubs sit on your car. Perhaps you can use the fries you bought earlier to tempt her to move. Perhaps not.

When I doubt...infer a woman is fat. What a cheap shot.

Reading comprehension isnt your strong suit eh?

[DogOnPorch]

Reading comprehension isnt your strong suit eh?

Fill me in on what his comment REALLY meant. By all means.

[dre]

ALSO.........this is a great turning point as far as the western world and what it stands for......a choice must be made NOW - and it is simple as we envision the future ....

WILL WE DOMINATE WESTERN SOCIETY - OR WILL ISLAM DOMINATE IT? that is the ultimate question.............

And be aware _ Islam will attempt to take over....will we toss aside our own heritage - the traditions of our great grand parents...2000 years of dedication to our lord and king Jesus Christ...and allow Mohmid the prince of war - over throw Jesus Christ the prince of peace and freedom?

Holy shit....

[dre]

Fill me in on what his comment REALLY meant. By all means.

You REALLY dont know do you... Wow.

[Shady]

When I doubt...infer a woman is fat. What a cheap shot. May a 1200lb grizzly sow + cubs sit on your car. Perhaps you can use the fries you bought earlier to tempt her to move. Perhaps not.

Yep. If anyone doubted wheather waldo is a low-life sack of crap, he definitely removed all doubt.

[dre]

Yep. If anyone doubted wheather waldo is a low-life sack of crap, he definitely removed all doubt.

[DogOnPorch]

You REALLY dont know do you... Wow.

Apparently neither do you...wow. Spill-it or zip-it.