Mosque going up in NYC building

[jbg]

Both you and JBG are missing the point here. Which is that extremism needs to be fought everywhere, not just in Islam. And he is right. I've been advocating just that.

Except your typical Christian fundamentalist or Jewish crazy (such as Baruch Goldstein) isn't plowing planes full of people into buildings full of people.

[Shady]

Both you and JBG are missing the point here. Which is that extremism needs to be fought everywhere, not just in Islam. And he is right. I've been advocating just that.

Your assertion that questioning the wisdom of putting this mosque at Ground Zero is somehow an example of extremism, is completely absurd and a form of McCarthyism.

[nicky10013]

Your assertion that questioning the wisdom of putting this mosque at Ground Zero is somehow an example of extremism, is completely absurd and a form of McCarthyism.

You're still not getting it.

Edited September 13, 2010 by nicky10013

[Shady]

You're still not getting it.

No, you're not getting it.

[GostHacked]

Except your typical Christian fundamentalist or Jewish crazy (such as Baruch Goldstein) isn't plowing planes full of people into buildings full of people.

Except you are missing the point.

[GostHacked]

Your assertion that questioning the wisdom of putting this mosque at Ground Zero is somehow an example of extremism, is completely absurd and a form of McCarthyism.

No that is an example of ignorance. Try again.

[Shady]

Except you are missing the point.

No, you're missing the point.

[nicky10013]

No, you're not getting it.

Ahahaha what is it I don't get?

[GostHacked]

No, you're missing the point.

What was the point I was trying to make then?

[Guest American Woman]

Both you and JBG are missing the point here. Which is that extremism needs to be fought everywhere, not just in Islam. And he is right. I've been advocating just that.

Lots of things need to be fought/taken care of, but it just makes sense to start with the one giving the greatest problem. If there's someone in the emergency room having a heart attack and someone needing stitches, we don't treat them both the same and if we can only deal with one, we deal with the heart attack.

It's ludicrous to say "extremism needs to be fought everywhere" without making/recognizing distinctions, and the fact that we can't do everything/deal with everything at once. So we pick the one needing the most attention, deal with that, and go from there.

But you aren't the only one advocating fighting extremism everywhere, so you can stop patting yourself on the back.

[nicky10013]

Lots of things need to be fought/taken care of, but it just makes sense to start with the one giving the greatest problem. If there's someone in the emergency room having a heart attack and someone needing stitches, we don't treat them both the same and if we can only deal with one, we deal with the heart attack.

It's ludicrous to say "extremism needs to be fought everywhere" without making/recognizing distinctions, and the fact that we can't do everything/deal with everything at once. So we pick the one needing the most attention, deal with that, and go from there.

But you aren't the only one advocating fighting extremism everywhere, so you can stop patting yourself on the back.

Something tells me government institutions are sufficiently advanced that we can tackle more than one problem at a time. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Guest American Woman]

Something tells me government institutions are sufficiently advanced that we can tackle more than one problem at a time.

And in case you're unaware of it, we are.

"Extremism" isn't the only problem our nations are facing. Hence my point.

Edited September 13, 2010 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

And in case you're unaware of it, we are.

"Extremism" isn't the only problem our nations are facing. Hence my point.

I agree, and that is part of the reason I don't see terrorism/extremism as the #1 problem. I'll equate it to your stitches. The poverty and health care poor social services is the heart attack. Terrorism you don't see every day, poverty and poor health you see every day.

People who don't mind spending the money on wars, don't like the idea of a universal health care.

Anyways, my point still stands. And you all agree in the end with the statement.

[Guest American Woman]

I agree, and that is part of the reason I don't see terrorism/extremism as the #1 problem. I'll equate it to your stitches. The poverty and health care poor social services is the heart attack. Terrorism you don't see every day, poverty and poor health you see every day.

WE are dealing with poverty and poor health, and have been for some time. If we wait until there's no poverty and no poor health, we'd never be dealing with anything else.

You may not see terrorism as a problem, but that doesn't mean it isn't, or that it would become a greater problem if we left it to fester unchecked.

People who don't mind spending the money on wars, don't like the idea of a universal health care.

Some feel that way, that's true. And others who like the idea of a universal health care don't like the idea of a strong military. So what's your point? That everyone should see things the same way? That one group is right and the other is wrong? Furthermore, it's not so much not liking the idea of universal health care as it is a matter of finding one that is satisfactory; one that works the best. Universal health care in and of itself doesn't guarantee all around better health.

Anyways, my point still stands. And you all agree in the end with the statement.

Your point stands in general, not in the way I think you intended it.

[Shady]

People who don't mind spending the money on wars, don't like the idea of a universal health care.

Not sure if you're aware, but America already spends more on health care than any other country in the world. It also spends more per student on education than any other country in the world. So before you throw around meaningless platitudes, you may wanna brush up on some facts.

Not sure what that has to do with this proposed mosque at Ground Zero.

[DogOnPorch]

I found the point...it had rolled under the chair (places point on table).

[Sir Bandelot]

I found the point...it had rolled under the chair (places point on table).

No I think the real point is up the top of your head

[waldo]

Someone please let me kknow when there is somwthing new on thread. I have said what I have to say oin the topic, and I have no reason, need or intend to keep repeating myself.

sorta, kinda, new... not 1, but 2 'mosques' existed within the towers

Muslims and Islam Were Part of Twin Towers’ Life

On any given day, Mr. Abdus-Salaam’s companions in the prayer room might include financial analysts, carpenters, receptionists, secretaries and ironworkers. There were American natives, immigrants who had earned citizenship, visitors conducting international business — the whole Muslim spectrum of nationality and race.

“It is a shame, shame, shame,” Mr. Mamdouh, 49, said of the Park51 dispute. “Sometimes I wake up and think, this is not what I came to America for. I came here to build this country together. People are using this issue for their own agenda. It’s designed to keep the hate going.”

[Shady]

Muslims and Islam Were Part of Twin Towers’ Life

They were also part of the attack.

[Guest American Woman]

Apparently Imam Rauf is being sued.

An imam at the center of a dispute over plans to build a mosque near ground zero is being sued by a northern New Jersey community where he owns two apartment buildings.

... the lawsuit charges Feisal Abdul Rauf hasn't addressed complaints by tenants and orders from the city to correct code violations.

link

Sounds as if he has real good ethics:

A lawsuit filed by Union City charges that the landlord of two apartment buildings has repeatedly failed to address complaints by tenants and orders by the city on issues ranging from moldy bathrooms to fire hazards.

The suit also alleges that Sage’s corporate status was revoked by the state in March 2005, for its failure to file annual reports.

The buildings occupy the same lot at 226 Central Ave., one containing 32 apartments and the other 16. The larger building has been vacant since Feb. 8, 2008, when a fire broke out there, one year after the city says it issued 12 separate fire code violations that Rauf ignored.

Rather than addressing the violations after the fire, the city says Rauf boarded up the building, barring residents from their apartments.

link

[Guest American Woman]

Excellent OP by an American Muslim* (excerpts):

He may not appear to the untrained eye to be an Islamist, but by making Ground Zero an Islamic rather than an American issue he shows his true allegiance.

As someone who has been involved in building mosques around the country, and who has dealt with his fair share of unjustified opposition, I ask of Imam Rauf and all his supporters, "Where is your sense of fairness and common decency?" In relation to Ground Zero, I am an American first, a Muslim second, just as I would be at Concord, Gettysburg, Normandy Beach, Pearl Harbor or any other battlefield where my fellow countrymen lost their lives.

I must ask Imam Rauf: For what do you stand—what's best for Americans overall, or for what you think is best for Islam? What have you said and argued to Muslim-majority nations to address their need for reform? You have said that Islam does not need reform, despite the stoning of women in Muslim countries, death sentences for apostates, and oppression of reformist Muslims and non-Muslims.

Imam, tell me if you can look into the eyes of children who lost a parent on 9/11 and convince them that this immodest Islamic center benefits them. How will it in any way aid counterterrorism efforts or keep one American any safer? You willfully ignore what American Muslims most need—an open call for reformation that unravels the bigoted and shoddy framework of political Islam and separates mosque and state.

...most voices in this case have been very clear that for every American freedom of religion is a right, but that it is not right to make one's religion a global political statement with a towering Islamic edifice that casts a shadow over the memorials of Ground Zero.

....by failing to firmly condemn terrorist groups like Hamas, he shows his true allegiance.

Islamists in "moderate" disguise are still Islamists. In their own more subtle ways, the WTC mosque organizers end up serving the same aims of the separatist and supremacist wings of political Islam. In this epic struggle of the 21st century, we cannot afford to ignore the continuum between nonviolent political Islam and the militancy it ultimately fuels among the jihadists.

He really gets to the heart of the matter and says what he has to say very well. Well worth the read.

*Dr. Jasser, a medical doctor and a former U.S. Navy lieutenant commander, is the founder and president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy based in Phoenix, Ariz.

[dre]

Excellent OP by an American Muslim* (excerpts):

He may not appear to the untrained eye to be an Islamist, but by making Ground Zero an Islamic rather than an American issue he shows his true allegiance.

As someone who has been involved in building mosques around the country, and who has dealt with his fair share of unjustified opposition, I ask of Imam Rauf and all his supporters, "Where is your sense of fairness and common decency?" In relation to Ground Zero, I am an American first, a Muslim second, just as I would be at Concord, Gettysburg, Normandy Beach, Pearl Harbor or any other battlefield where my fellow countrymen lost their lives.

I must ask Imam Rauf: For what do you stand—what's best for Americans overall, or for what you think is best for Islam? What have you said and argued to Muslim-majority nations to address their need for reform? You have said that Islam does not need reform, despite the stoning of women in Muslim countries, death sentences for apostates, and oppression of reformist Muslims and non-Muslims.

Imam, tell me if you can look into the eyes of children who lost a parent on 9/11 and convince them that this immodest Islamic center benefits them. How will it in any way aid counterterrorism efforts or keep one American any safer? You willfully ignore what American Muslims most need—an open call for reformation that unravels the bigoted and shoddy framework of political Islam and separates mosque and state.

...most voices in this case have been very clear that for every American freedom of religion is a right, but that it is not right to make one's religion a global political statement with a towering Islamic edifice that casts a shadow over the memorials of Ground Zero.

....by failing to firmly condemn terrorist groups like Hamas, he shows his true allegiance.

Islamists in "moderate" disguise are still Islamists. In their own more subtle ways, the WTC mosque organizers end up serving the same aims of the separatist and supremacist wings of political Islam. In this epic struggle of the 21st century, we cannot afford to ignore the continuum between nonviolent political Islam and the militancy it ultimately fuels among the jihadists.

He really gets to the heart of the matter and says what he has to say very well. Well worth the read.

*Dr. Jasser, a medical doctor and a former U.S. Navy lieutenant commander, is the founder and president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy based in Phoenix, Ariz.

towering Islamic edifice that casts a shadow over the memorials of Ground Zero.

What idiotic hyperbole... the memorials are almost 5 blocks away

In this epic struggle of the 21st century

What epic struggle is that?

[Shady]

What epic struggle is that?

Probably the struggle within Islam.

[Guest American Woman]

Probably the struggle within Islam.

And a struggle it is....

This is what we need, what moderate Islam needs -- Muslims who speak out about the problem, who aren't pussy footing around it, and aren't afraid to speak out and say what's on their mind; and I think he really drives the point home.

Islam is engaged in a struggle within itself, and ultimately, Muslims are going to have to deal with the issue/problem; it's not going to go away on it's own, and will most likely grow. He hits on some very serious issues, and I think it's great that he pointed out that while Imam Rauf was touring the Middle East speaking of Islam in regards to America, the problems we are dealing with in America, he wasn't speaking at all about Islam in the Middle East, as if there are no problems there. I hadn't even thought of that, but it's so true. It is strange that he wouldn't be addressing things like stoning women, etc., when speaking in these nations. If he wants to build bridges, it's not all going to come from one side. That's just not going to happen.

[dre]

Islam is engaged in a struggle within itself, and ultimately, Muslims are going to have to deal with the issue/problem; it's not going to go away on it's own, and will most likely grow

Islam HAS been dealing with the issue and with the problem, you just dont pay attention. And its not growing its been shrinking for years, and the muslim population has turned against terrorism and violence again the innocent.

Muslims as a group are less likely to support terrorism than AMERICANS.

In any case the authors idiotic hyperbole is just plain silly.

Towering Islamic Edifice? Epic struggle of the 21st century?

Get Real.

Edited September 14, 2010 by dre