One more time Gun Registry

[eyeball]

May I suggest that these are not hunters. But punks with unregistered long guns.If they were shooting up my neighbourhood I am pretty sure the swat team would be there pretty darn quick!

It would probably take a few hours for our swat team to get on scene.

[Wilber]

Years and years ago. When will it sink in that the only way to control the illegal ones is to legalize the drug trade and seal our southern border?

Yes I know, the world will be a perfect place if only all drugs are legalized.

[myata]

Quite right any murder is significant, it just so happens the chances of being killed with a registered long gun is statistically much less significant than say the chance of being stabbed to death. So seeing as any murder is equally bad as another why then do we not treat the weapons in the same fashion? We obviously need to spend billions, many times the amount spent on the gun registry, in order to treat equally and proportionately all weapons used in homicides.

Because, as already explained, one (tracking guns) is technically possible; and feasible; and doesn't even cost that much, now that the registry has been set up; while the other is not (technically possible or feasible; maybe because gun is lot harder to make than a knife?)

We can go for real practical solutions now, or keep fuming till end of times why anything we could do wouldn't be the perfect solution to solve all of our problems forever and therefore isn't worth bothering about.

To Wilber:

When would it sink in that "most honest and responsible" at one time could mean a crackpot with a store of dangerous weapons some years later? Need examples? The latest one was on the news in Ottawa not two weeks ago, with a great neighbour and former mayor going crack and shooting police officer.

[eyeball]

Yes I know, the world will be a perfect place if only all drugs are legalized.

A lot less imperfect perhaps but perfect is too subjective a way to put it.

So you don't think sealing the border with the U.S. would help control illegal guns either? It sounds like enough American's are determined to seal the border anyway so we may not have to spend a dime on this on our side.

By some estimates ending prohibition could remove up to 90% of the incentive for people to become criminals - in any case it stands to reason the cost of fighting crime would commensurately drop.

This plus the new revenues that taxing drugs would raise might be more than enough to offset the cost of border delays and pay for better internal gun controls.

Edited April 27, 2010 by eyeball

[Wilber]

To Wilber:

When would it sink in that "most honest and responsible" at one time could mean a crackpot with a store of dangerous weapons some years later? Need examples? The latest one was on the news in Ottawa not two weeks ago, with a great neighbour and former mayor going crack and shooting police officer.

So what, was the mayor's gun registered? Do you think the issue of whether his gun was registered or not would have changed the outcome? Who decides whether someone has become a "crackpot" and takes their gun away?

[yarg]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/27/statscan-knifing-report.html

"In 2008, 34 per cent of 611 homicides reported by police were committed with knives, a seven per cent increase from 1999 and more than double the approximately 15 per cent level of 1974, the first year for which homicide data is available.

The proportion of homicides involving guns, meanwhile, dropped significantly — from approximately 48 per cent in 1974 to 34 per cent in 2008."

Sometimes this is just too easy. Homicides involving knives climbing, and homicides involving guns dropping and dropping for the 30 years prior to the registry, and of course most of the current gun crimes are committed with hand guns and other illegal weapons, 2-3 percent comitted with registered firearms. Wake up liberals.

"Almost half of knife-related homicides between 1999 and 2008 occurred between acquaintances and most commonly during an argument, the report said.

Family members committed 35 per cent of stabbings, while strangers committed the remaining 16 per cent."

Seems that this is the same domestic violence argument the left usually bashes over the heads of firearms owners, where is the knife control? Wake up liberals.

[Hydraboss]

Because, as already explained, one (tracking guns) is technically possible; and feasible; and doesn't even cost that much, now that the registry has been set up; while the other is not (technically possible or feasible; maybe because gun is lot harder to make than a knife?)

Do you have any idea how many guns (pistols and long guns) are ALREADY IN circulation in North America??? How do you plan on tracking those? Would it be outrageous to assume there are more guns for sale in the state of Montana than are registered in Canada right now?

We can go for real practical solutions now, or keep fuming till end of times why anything we could do wouldn't be the perfect solution to solve all of our problems forever and therefore isn't worth bothering about.

The registry solves nothing. It does not provide protection in any way, shape or form.

When would it sink in that "most honest and responsible" at one time could mean a crackpot with a store of dangerous weapons some years later? Need examples? The latest one was on the news in Ottawa not two weeks ago, with a great neighbour and former mayor going crack and shooting police officer.

I'm sure the police officer is very happy that the gun was registered.

[Wilber]

So you don't think sealing the border with the U.S. would help control illegal guns either? It sounds like enough American's are determined to seal the border anyway so we may not have to spend a dime on this on our side.

Sealing the border, another excercise in futility. You have to be kidding because you can't really believe that is possible.

[eyeball]

Sealing the border, another excercise in futility. You have to be kidding because you can't really believe that is possible.

No but it's like the prohibition of drugs - not trying to control guns sends the wrong message and we should be willing to spend whatever it takes to make sure the bad people in society get that message.

[punked]

No but it's like the prohibition of drugs - not trying to control guns sends the wrong message and we should be willing to spend whatever it takes to make sure the bad people in society get that message.

We do control guns. We give out licenses. Why do we need a registry of long guns that does not work? We don't.

[Topaz]

We do control guns. We give out licenses. Why do we need a registry of long guns that does not work? We don't.

So what is the difference between registering or licencing? If one has to have a licence, for proof of ownership, isn't that kinda registering? I still say this is for the provinces and the Feds should stay out of it and concentrate on more serious things.

[Wilber]

So what is the difference between registering or licencing? If one has to have a licence, for proof of ownership, isn't that kinda registering? I still say this is for the provinces and the Feds should stay out of it and concentrate on more serious things.

The difference is you are licensing the people not registering the item. You can drive a car because you have a license to do so, not because you own one.

[Smallc]

So what is the difference between registering or licencing? If one has to have a licence, for proof of ownership, isn't that kinda registering? I still say this is for the provinces and the Feds should stay out of it and concentrate on more serious things.

Well, perhaps if you had read the Constitution, you would stop saying that:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/3.html#anchorbo-ga:s_91-gb:s_91

[Handsome Rob]

Well, perhaps if you had read the Constitution, you would stop saying that:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/3.html#anchorbo-ga:s_91-gb:s_91

Can you interpret that?

Had a quick read through and didn't see anything that jumped out, curious as to what specifically it is.

[eyeball]

We do control guns. We give out licenses. Why do we need a registry of long guns that does not work? We don't.

We obviously disagree on what constitutes control. As far as I'm concerned hunters should be signing their guns in and out of armories not keeping them at home and the guns should be fitted with GPS chips so their whereabouts can be tracked. Target shooters should just be leaving their guns at the ranges they use.

If ammo was registered and coded with chemical markers perhaps the police could find out who's been shooting up all the traffic signs in my neighborhood.

I agree the registry is a joke as far as controlling guns goes but given it's all we've got...

The fact it's an incompetently managed politically motivated boondoggle is an entirely different issue and a far more pressing one.

[myata]

So what, was the mayor's gun registered? Do you think the issue of whether his gun was registered or not would have changed the outcome?

There's any number of ways in which registration of legal guns can be used to investigate and prevent crimes, which will come into practice over time. The thing is that the registry makes it possible.

More importantly, with consistent and enforced use, it'll facilitate the culture of discipline toward guns in the country. Any notion of gun control that permits unlimited and unchecked accumulation of weapons like those used by Dawson shooter would defy credibility.

Who decides whether someone has become a "crackpot" and takes their gun away?

Repeated history of violence, including spousal violence

Severe mental illness or delusion

Membership in illegal (of any kind) organisation: gang, militia, extremist group

Etc

Combination of any of the above with a stock of deadly weapons is a recepy for another gun crime and more victims.

[Smallc]

Can you interpret that?

Had a quick read through and didn't see anything that jumped out, curious as to what specifically it is.

The Firearms Act seems very much to be a part of criminal law, something under the exclusive jurisdiction of the Parliament of Canada.

[Politeman]

This vote might be close again but after third reading the Bill will dead or become law

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/ignatieff-cracks-whip-on-gun-registry/article1539372/

I know the NDP wont whip because it sets a precedent which will kill the voice of the party. Many of the things the NDP do are private member bills like their one which passed a few days ago to limit the PM power to prorogue.

Seriously the MPs need to be allowed to vote their conscience on these bills.

[Politeman]

There's any number of ways in which registration of legal guns can be used to investigate and prevent crimes, which will come into practice over time. The thing is that the registry makes it possible.

More importantly, with consistent and enforced use, it'll facilitate the culture of discipline toward guns in the country. Any notion of gun control that permits unlimited and unchecked accumulation of weapons like those used by Dawson shooter would defy credibility.

Repeated history of violence, including spousal violence

Severe mental illness or delusion

Membership in illegal (of any kind) organisation: gang, militia, extremist group

Etc

Combination of any of the above with a stock of deadly weapons is a recepy for another gun crime and more victims.

Long-Gun Registry

Are you a minority? Are you afraid that being different puts your way of life in danger? If your rights as a Canadian Citizen were being violated would inform your MP in Ottawa?

I think the majority of people would say yes.

What if you belong to minority that has been invisible to the voting majority for the last 100yrs. 1st nation’s people, trappers, people who fish and hunt? Does it matter what color your skin is? Does it matter what language you speak? What if you own guns? What if you cut trees down? Should you be discriminated against because you are not a Vegetarian?

I think the majority of people would say no!

I know politicians have a history of taxing anything they do not like. An annual renewal fee for each gun you own is a tax! Canadian tax dollars that are being spent trying to manage the gun registry is an unnecessary burden for Canadians. Billions could be redirected to more worthy causes. Our Federal Authority should have funding to enforce current laws for all illegal arms that are being smuggled in or out of Canada’s Borders. Let the provinces tweak the the gun ownership laws that existed before the registry, if need be.

I think these invisible minorities should be respected and left alone, even if some of them are straight white men over 40.

Now is the time to remind your MP to vote against the long gun registry. Please remember:

“The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects the citizen against the STATE and to protect minorities against parliamentary majorities.”

[Politeman]

Long-Gun Registry

Are you a minority? Are you afraid that being different puts your way of life in danger? If your rights as a Canadian Citizen were being violated would inform your MP in Ottawa?

I think the majority of people would say yes.

What if you belong to minority that has been invisible to the voting majority for the last 100yrs. 1st nation’s people, trappers, people who fish and hunt? Does it matter what color your skin is? Does it matter what language you speak? What if you own guns? What if you cut trees down? Should you be discriminated against because you are not a Vegetarian?

I think the majority of people would say no!

I know politicians have a history of taxing anything they do not like. An annual renewal fee for each gun you own is a tax! Canadian tax dollars that are being spent trying to manage the gun registry is an unnecessary burden for Canadians. Billions could be redirected to more worthy causes. Our Federal Authority should have funding to enforce current laws for all illegal arms that are being smuggled in or out of Canada’s Borders. Let the provinces tweak the the gun ownership laws that existed before the registry, if need be.

I think these invisible minorities should be respected and left alone, even if some of them are straight white men over 40.

Now is the time to remind your MP to vote against the long gun registry. Please remember:

“The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects the citizen against the STATE and to protect minorities against parliamentary majorities.”

[Politeman]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/27/statscan-knifing-report.html

"In 2008, 34 per cent of 611 homicides reported by police were committed with knives, a seven per cent increase from 1999 and more than double the approximately 15 per cent level of 1974, the first year for which homicide data is available.

The proportion of homicides involving guns, meanwhile, dropped significantly — from approximately 48 per cent in 1974 to 34 per cent in 2008."

Sometimes this is just too easy. Homicides involving knives climbing, and homicides involving guns dropping and dropping for the 30 years prior to the registry, and of course most of the current gun crimes are committed with hand guns and other illegal weapons, 2-3 percent comitted with registered firearms. Wake up liberals.

"Almost half of knife-related homicides between 1999 and 2008 occurred between acquaintances and most commonly during an argument, the report said.

Family members committed 35 per cent of stabbings, while strangers committed the remaining 16 per cent."

Seems that this is the same domestic violence argument the left usually bashes over the heads of firearms owners, where is the knife control? Wake up liberals.

Long-Gun Registry

Are you a minority? Are you afraid that being different puts your way of life in danger? If your rights as a Canadian Citizen were being violated would inform your MP in Ottawa?

I think the majority of people would say yes.

What if you belong to minority that has been invisible to the voting majority for the last 100yrs. 1st nation’s people, trappers, people who fish and hunt? Does it matter what color your skin is? Does it matter what language you speak? What if you own guns? What if you cut trees down? Should you be discriminated against because you are not a Vegetarian?

I think the majority of people would say no!

I know politicians have a history of taxing anything they do not like. An annual renewal fee for each gun you own is a tax! Canadian tax dollars that are being spent trying to manage the gun registry is an unnecessary burden for Canadians. Billions could be redirected to more worthy causes. Our Federal Authority should have funding to enforce current laws for all illegal arms that are being smuggled in or out of Canada’s Borders. Let the provinces tweak the the gun ownership laws that existed before the registry, if need be.

I think these invisible minorities should be respected and left alone, even if some of them are straight white men over 40.

Now is the time to remind your MP to vote against the long gun registry. Please remember:

“The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects the citizen against the STATE and to protect minorities against parliamentary majorities.”

[bloodyminded]

When repeated three times, it's better.

[Handsome Rob]

Getting juicier:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/gun-registry-fight-pits-cop-against-cop/article1559295/

But Manitoba Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner, who tabled the bill, was pitting cop against cop, claiming they are divided on the issue. She held a news conference with three former Winnipeg SWAT team members who said the registry is all but useless.

Jack Tinsley, a retired inspector, said registry opponents within police ranks have been muzzled.

Dave Shipman, who retired after 25 years with the force – 16 of them in homicide – said he's seen hundreds of killings with a myriad of weapons.

“Never have I attended a killing when a registry of any of the weapons would have prevented that killing from occurring,” Mr. Shipman said.

“The long-gun registry is not working to prevent gun crime as it was intended. Criminals ... do not register their stolen or smuggled guns that are being used to wage war in our cities.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Police+rift+emerges+over+long+registry/2995482/story.html

Shipman's retired former colleague, 33-year police veteran Jack Tinsley, said the issue has driven a wedge between what he calls "front-line officers" and the police leaders who "are perhaps not in touch with what is really taking place on the street on a day-to-day basis."

"I think they are forced at this point to appear to be unified on that topic, and I'm certainly of the opinion that their motives are politically motivated," said Tinsley.

Lobby groups getting exposed?

[Smallc]

The registry is useless. The police can't show how it's useful...because it isn't.

[wyly]

I know politicians have a history of taxing anything they do not like. An annual renewal fee for each gun you own is a tax! Canadian tax dollars that are being spent trying to manage the gun registry is an unnecessary burden for Canadians. Billions could be redirected to more worthy causes. Our Federal Authority should have funding to enforce current laws for all illegal arms that are being smuggled in or out of Canada’s Borders. Let the provinces tweak the the gun ownership laws that existed before the registry, if need be.

an annual renew fee for each car I own is a tax! Canadian tax dollars are being spent trying to manage the auto registry is an unnecessary burden for Canadians. Billions upon billions could be redirected to more worthy causes. your silly logic can be applied to just about anything...