Victory At Last

[Shady]

Great story from Newsweek from a few weeks ago.

PIC

Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq

"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."

...

now, almost seven hellish years later—that something that looks mighty like democracy is emerging in Iraq. And while it may not be a beacon of inspiration to the region, it most certainly is a watershed event that could come to represent a whole new era in the history of the massively undemocratic Middle East.

Newsweek

This is exactly why anyone that prematurely suggests Bush is or wil be remembered as a bad President, is completely wrong. Bush is probably this eras Truman.

[ToadBrother]

Great story from Newsweek from a few weeks ago.

PIC

This is exactly why anyone that prematurely suggests Bush is or wil be remembered as a bad President, is completely wrong. Bush is probably this eras Truman.

Wake me up in 20 years, when Iraq has a flourishing democracy, as opposed to a very tentative one that still essentially requires American firepower to keep it in place.

[eyeball]

Bush is probably this eras Truman.

Stop being so modest.

[Shady]

Stop being so modest.

So comparing Bush to Truman is like comparing him to Jesus? Wow, I had no idea Harry Truman was so popular!

[ToadBrother]

So comparing Bush to Truman is like comparing him to Jesus? Wow, I had no idea Harry Truman was so popular!

Truman, at least, wasn't a simpering moron lead around by a pack of handlers. Whatever accomplishments Bush may have had, one thing we can be sure of is that they're all likely Cheney's.

[waldo]

Wake me up in 20 years, when Iraq has a flourishing democracy, as opposed to a very tentative one that still essentially requires American firepower to keep it in place.

thought they were all leaving, particularly since it's now clearly... "Mission Accomplished - part deux"

certainly... the best theocracy a democracy could vote in! And when the draw-down ultimately hits the 50K troop number...

and the Sadr militia that simply sat back and waited out the "surge"? Oh ya - Sadr Surges in Iraq Vote

[waldo]

Stop being so modest.

and no... this halo effect is not photo-shopped!

[bush_cheney2004]

Truman, at least, wasn't a simpering moron lead around by a pack of handlers. Whatever accomplishments Bush may have had, one thing we can be sure of is that they're all likely Cheney's.

No...you are just guessing. The ultimate decision to invade Iraq was the president's by definition.

[ToadBrother]

No...you are just guessing. The ultimate decision to invade Iraq was the president's by definition.

Yes, but there is at least one other example of that power being, well, taken over by someone else; namely Woodrow Wilson's final two years.

[Shakeyhands]

and no... this halo effect is not photo-shopped!

haha.... must have been REALLY sunny there too, he seems to have a couple of sun shades set up to his left and right. Probably just to block the suns glare off of something.

[punked]

Yah I would wait to put up the Mission Accomplished Banner. It seems like two official which belong to the ruling party purged 50 people from the election 6 of who won their seats. Remember the election was won by two seats so 6 people losing their seats makes all the difference. Shady might feel good about a democracy where people are kicked out after they win an election so that one party can win but I don't. I wouldn't call that democracy either.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/29/AR2010032901358.html

[Michael Hardner]

Bush's extreme unpopularity after Katrina forced him to demand a re-think of Iraq, and an approach that was more realistic. As a result of that plan, coalition fatalities started falling, and civilian ones too after that. This went largely unreported in the press, and was ignored by people who appeared to be simply bored of the story.

As much as I despised Bush, and felt he was unqualified for the role, this was one area where he turned things around, and was simply ignored for it. Another area was in aid for Africa.

My philosophy is that if you complain about the Bush of the world, then it's your job to pay attention and to change your tune on those occasions when they do listen.

[naomiglover]

Bush is probably this eras Truman.

The same Democrat Truman that fought for Medicare for most of his career until it was realized in 1965 while Johnson was president?

Great comparison.

[Shady]

The same Democrat Truman that fought for Medicare for most of his career until it was realized in 1965 while Johnson was president?

Great comparison.

Thanks. I think it's a very great comparison. Afterall, President Bush fought for and passed prescription drug coverage in America in the name of Medicare part D. Which I'm sure you're aware of.

[punked]

Thanks. I think it's a very great comparison. Afterall, President Bush fought for and passed prescription drug coverage in America in the name of Medicare part D. Which I'm sure you're aware of.

You mean the one where business got a 28% subsidy from the federal government on all drugs they covered, and then got when they bought the drugs got to claim 100% of the cost even though the government already paid 72% the cost of the drug? That is a give away to business not Health reform Shady. Not only but it also made it so any medication given to patient in hospitable is not coved by Medicare. Good thing Obama fixed these problems as to no longer have that ponzi give away.

[waldo]

Stop being so modest.

and no... this halo effect is not photo-shopped!

haha.... must have been REALLY sunny there too, he seems to have a couple of sun shades set up to his left and right. Probably just to block the suns glare off of something.

sun Shady??? I thought those were teleprompters... but I'll certainly defer to sun Shady in keeping with the impromptu, unrehearsed, and spontaneous nature of the lil' aircraft carrier "mission accomplished" pronouncement. So I guess sun Shady was right after all... Obama really is the only U.S. president to have used teleprompters!

[Moonlight Graham]

This is exactly why anyone that prematurely suggests Bush is or wil be remembered as a bad President, is completely wrong. Bush is probably this eras Truman.

Are you kidding me? I'll give it 10 years max in both Iraq and Afghanistan after U.S. troops leave when the "democratic" governments are overthrown and replaced with authoritarian regimes. At the very least they will be a corrupt authoritarian regimes disguised as democracies.

Thanks to Bush and others, many in the middle-east view democracy as a detestful American/Western imperialist tool. Hearts and minds!

[Shady]

Good thing Obama fixed these problems

Fixed problems? You mean the sweetheart deals he cut with big pharma and big insurance?

Obama really is the only U.S. president to have used teleprompters!

I've never said that. Once again, you lie.

Way to focus on the emerging democracy in Iraq guys!

Thanks to Bush and others, many in the middle-east view democracy as a detestful American/Western imperialist tool. Hearts and minds!

Complete nonsense. But it's nice of you to characterize the view of democracy in the Middle East, sitting in your cozy democracy with rights and freedoms here in Canada.

[punked]

I responded to Iraqi election fraud you ignored it.

[waldo]

I responded to Iraqi election fraud you ignored it.

of course Shady ignored it... it really is an interesting flavour of democracy that allows a law to be crafted and a resulting commission struck to deny some 500+ candidates from appearing on the ballots - principally because it's been determined that they may have past ties to the former Baathist party. Iraqi democracy... purging opponents, one former Baathist at a time!

[Shady]

they may have past ties to the former Baathist party. Iraqi democracy... purging opponents, one former Baathist at a time!

Yep, the way Post-WWII Germany purged Nazi opponents, one Nazi at a time. There's little difference between the Baathist party and the Nazi party.

So yes, I don't think former Baathist members should have a seat at the newly developing democratic government of Iraq. And of course there's going to be instances of corruption, etc. It's an infant democracy, and it'll experience the same problems others have gone through. I'm sure in very little time, they'll have their own version of ACORN, registering fraudulent voters for election purposes!

[punked]

Yep, the way Post-WWII Germany purged Nazi opponents, one Nazi at a time. There's little difference between the Baathist party and the Nazi party.

So yes, I don't think former Baathist members should have a seat at the newly developing democratic government of Iraq. And of course there's going to be instances of corruption, etc. It's an infant democracy, and it'll experience the same problems others have gone through. I'm sure in very little time, they'll have their own version of ACORN, registering fraudulent voters for election purposes!

Accept they don't have connections to the Bath they just won enough seats to swing the election. Remember it was won by 2 seats and 6 people who won were thrown out AFTER they won NOT BEFORE. Welcome to Shady's democracy people get rid of anyone you don't like, and if they win by following the rules, lie about them or change the rules.

[Oleg Bach]

Great the war lords fall and the utilitarians rise up in this god forsaken rock pile..and they call it democracy--It is just a matter of one set of bad guys over throwing another set of bad guys and calling it democracy. It seems that the western big dogs are tossing the eastern big dogs out...and now suddenly all is clean. Now some western banking jerk sits in his tower and gloats that he has won against the primatives...and he will propogate the concept of democracy to pacify the common guy...in the mean time it is just another hostile take over of some other now weakened culture...so who do I send the gold staar to?

[waldo]

Yep, the way Post-WWII Germany purged Nazi opponents, one Nazi at a time. There's little difference between the Baathist party and the Nazi party.

So yes, I don't think former Baathist members should have a seat at the newly developing democratic government of Iraq. And of course there's going to be instances of corruption, etc. It's an infant democracy, and it'll experience the same problems others have gone through. I'm sure in very little time, they'll have their own version of ACORN, registering fraudulent voters for election purposes!

try to catch up Shady... how do you negate the intense U.S. and international criticism of that purge of more than 500 people... persons accused of former Baathist ties... criticism based on a lack of due process and the fact the purge was overseen by politicians who were also running in the election. Possibly as significant, U.S. criticism also stemmed from the fact those in charge of the purge are seen to have strong ties to Iran. Shady, are there really voter registration concerns in a theocracy?

(actually, the possible overturning of the election reflects directly on the Baathist issue and whether or not an Iraqi federal court upholds that broad purge of candidates... the purge of anyone suspected of past involvement with the Baath Party... but don't let an active court process limit Shady trumpeting his, as he states, "infant democracy". The relationships between the various factions are tenuous, to say the least. The bickering over the election results presents a great worry that sectarian violence will rise forward once again, culminating in (another) civil war - much worse than previous years.)

[Oleg Bach]

Democracy is one sheep and two wolves voting on what is for supper. The vote is always rigged.. better to have a thoughtful and benevolent gangster in office than a group of selve serving jerks that have figure out how to manipulate the system.