Smallc Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Make choices for yourself.....not me. No one is making any choices for you. On the other hand, I don't want peoples choices influenced by false information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politicslvr Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Even if we were all able to access the flu shot, it is still unclear as to its effectiveness. I think the best thing to do for now is to sit back, wait a month until more conclusive (aka unbiased) information comes out on the shot, and decide from there. Until then, wash your hands a bit more often and be a bit more cautious. I think that is the best course of action for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 ahh there it is...the conspiracy theory...the drug companies are colluding with the government and the Harper government is going to get kick backs/donations.... Nah, there's no conspiracy, there's just opportunity with a bunch of like-minded pirahnas swarming around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 So we should become suspicious of all medicine After Vioxx, Fen-phen, Baycol, etc, etc, we certainly should be at least a little skeptical when a pharmaceutical company tells us one of their products has been tested and found safe/effective. After Avian Flu, West Nile, SARS, etc, etc, we certainly should be at least a little skeptical when a public agency tells us we are all in danger. There is far too much scare-mongering, and far too many declarations of absolute certainty for any discerning person to just take what they are being told at face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Correct focus...it's all about keeping those lungs clear. We can't get vaccinated even if we wanted to, because other groups have priority. They giot back an hour ago. He has a touch of pneumonia. So we went from mondaywith clear lungs to wednesday with who knew moan ya.... My wife says the ER was a well behaved zoo....with every second child throwing up. Imagine, being relieved your son has pneumonia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 No one is making any choices for you. On the other hand, I don't want peoples choices influenced by false information. In that case we might as well all give it up... false information abounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 No one is making any choices for you. On the other hand, I don't want peoples choices influenced by false information. ...and I don't want "true" information influenced by false choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I haven't spread anything I'm responding to a thread that has people like yourself claiming there is no danger, it's all hype the vaccine is a plot by the drug companies... I did not say there was no danger, nor did I claim that the vaccine was a government plot. Lying and spreading misinformation really is a way of life for you isn't it? Please quote me exactly where I said it was a government plot and where I stated there was no danger. It’s clear that you're not actually reading my posts. Let me spell it out for you again. I specifically stated that the H1N1 is no more dangerous than the regular flu. You maintain that it is in spite of evidence and statistics that show it is not. then go read about the dangers of bird flu? are you afraid to be wrong? if you're the knowledge seeking person you claim to be go look into it... Again this only proves you have no reliable sources as I suspected. your posts say different...unless the government does nothing and all breaks lose it was all hype...you want death and destruction before you believe anything then you'll blame the government and the media for not warning you... I don't suppose you care to quote where I state, implied, inferred or otherwise alluded to the notions you are attributing to me? Because I don't blindly swallow the hype you seem so willing to doesn't mean I wish anyone harm. Critical thinking means you approach each and every situation with forethought, you base your decisions on facts and figures, not simply do as the media tells you or go as the masses go. hype is in the perception of info...and the perception is your alone... No hype is making the mundane into something sensational. There are thousands of seasonal flu deaths every single year all over the globe and they don't get the level of media attention that the deaths from H1N1 have had. Why all the attention to H1N1, if it has proven heretofore to be no more virulent than the seasonal flu that is indeed hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) well, confirmed H1N1 for my daughter, the first day was pretty bad but our Dr. started her and us on a course of Tamiflu and it's not that bad.... well for us. I still feel for her, she was pretty sick. All seems well now, I'd encourage you to get the vaccination though, I'm sure none of you want to be that sick. Thanks all for your wishes of luck. Edited October 29, 2009 by Shakeyhands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 And that has anything to do with this, even remotely, how? I can't believe people are so skeptical of modern medicine. This is just crazy. It's not scepticism against modern medicine it's cynicism towards media coverage of an otherwise regular occurrence around the world. Panic and hysteria are never healthy, and do far more harm than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 No hype is making the mundane into something sensational. There are thousands of seasonal flu deaths every single year all over the globe and they don't get the level of media attention that the deaths from H1N1 have had. Why all the attention to H1N1, if it has proven heretofore to be no more virulent than the seasonal flu that is indeed hype. The alternative is to provide little or no warning unless, and until all Hell has broken loose. The potential of this one is truly awful, far beyond that of seasonal flu. The risk is not at all mundane, though the eventual effect of of this flu might well prove to be. If that awful, worst-case potential isn't reached, if the mutations to make it truly deadly don't occur, that's a GOOD thing... but in the mean time, I'd rather be alerted to the prospect, and respond to it, than get the mushroom treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
politicslvr Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 There's no doubt the media has drastically overplayed this whole issue. I'm not convinced that I should get the vaccine, and I think it would be best to wait a little while so the proper medical testing can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_ON Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 You can only have drug resistant diseases if you have drugs. What does it matter whether a flu or other virus is drug resistant if it kills you anyway? A big reason drugs like penicillin have become less effective is because of over prescribing by doctors and patients who stop taking them as soon as they start to feel better before they have taken the whole prescription. That is how these viruses mutate. If the body doesn't kill them completely, they become resistant. You say we are not above the balance of nature then you say we have screwed up the balance by living too long. Which is it? I would say we are not above the laws of nature but we have become quite good at using many of them to our advantage. I don't believe that stating we are not above the balance of nature and that humans often screw them up are mutually exclusive. That's however a different discussion. I agree with your statement that over use of a drug is a primary cause of drug resistant strains but you are incorrect to assert that vaccines do not prevent the spread. You personally may be immune but that doesn't mean you can't spread it to others. I suppose my basic premise is we’re not nearly as clever as we often think ourselves to be. How often have we inadvertently or intentionally introduced a species into an eco system that isn't prepared to handle it? Purple loosestrife is an excellent example of this, sure it's pretty but it's also devastating many of our wetlands. Kudzu is another plant example, zebra mussels, Russian wheat aphids are some other examples. Some are harmless; others thrive due to lack of natural predators and begin to overrun the native populations. Again this is vastly off topic but essentially what I was alluding to. Diseases like polio still kill and maim in third world countries because there are no universal vaccination programs. Not my idea of paradise. Before the development of a vaccine for yellow fever, West Africa and what are now vacation paradises in the West Indies were grave yards for Europeans. The disease single handedly prevented the building of the Panama Canal until its cause was identified and a vaccine developed. If you think the world would be a better place if most people didn't make it out of their thirties, then you go first. I don't debate the benefit of vaccines for these illnesses, but we're not talking about polio, yellow fever or small pox. We're talking about the flu, nobody wants it, it's not fun to have it and those that are especially vulnerable or have other health concerns should definitely get vaccinated. However, I think that comparing the flu to particularly deadly diseases is unrealistic and all this media hype has the danger of inciting hysteria. I'll end with the obvious, the more people who are infected by a disease the greater the chance it will mutate. Flu and other viruses were mutating for millenia before there were vaccines or antibiotics. I am getting my annual flu shot on Saturday and will get the H1N1 shot when all those who are designated high risk have had their turn. Why? Not entirely true, vaccination only protects the person it is given to. It's not possible to vaccinate every person in the world, and that's not to say that the disease won't jump species and come back again. You want the flu shot; by all means go for it. Our species survived for hundreds of thousands of years before the invention of vaccines, sure we didn't live as long but we still survived and each generation was stronger and more adapted than the last. To protect me from folks like you. Odd you perceive me as a threat to you. If you can't stand to have your perceptions or ideas challenged than why post them on a public forum where that is inevitable? Sadly there's no known vaccine against mass panic, media hype or hysteria, or is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 There's no doubt the media has drastically overplayed this whole issue. I'm not convinced that I should get the vaccine, and I think it would be best to wait a little while so the proper medical testing can be done. You might like this.... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1343060/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I don't believe that stating we are not above the balance of nature and that humans often screw them up are mutually exclusive. That's however a different discussion. I agree with your statement that over use of a drug is a primary cause of drug resistant strains but you are incorrect to assert that vaccines do not prevent the spread. You personally may be immune but that doesn't mean you can't spread it to others. I suppose my basic premise is we’re not nearly as clever as we often think ourselves to be. How often have we inadvertently or intentionally introduced a species into an eco system that isn't prepared to handle it? Purple loosestrife is an excellent example of this, sure it's pretty but it's also devastating many of our wetlands. Kudzu is another plant example, zebra mussels, Russian wheat aphids are some other examples. Some are harmless; others thrive due to lack of natural predators and begin to overrun the native populations. Again this is vastly off topic but essentially what I was alluding to. I don't debate the benefit of vaccines for these illnesses, but we're not talking about polio, yellow fever or small pox. We're talking about the flu, nobody wants it, it's not fun to have it and those that are especially vulnerable or have other health concerns should definitely get vaccinated. However, I think that comparing the flu to particularly deadly diseases is unrealistic and all this media hype has the danger of inciting hysteria. Not entirely true, vaccination only protects the person it is given to. It's not possible to vaccinate every person in the world, and that's not to say that the disease won't jump species and come back again. You want the flu shot; by all means go for it. Our species survived for hundreds of thousands of years before the invention of vaccines, sure we didn't live as long but we still survived and each generation was stronger and more adapted than the last. Odd you perceive me as a threat to you. If you can't stand to have your perceptions or ideas challenged than why post them on a public forum where that is inevitable? Sadly there's no known vaccine against mass panic, media hype or hysteria, or is there? In 1918 a strain of the flu killed four times as many people in one year as were killed during the four years of WWI. There were no flu vaccines then, or antibiotics. It is very difficult to pass on an infection you don't have. You may be able to transfer the bugs from one infected person to another by physical contact but if your body is not producing the virus itself, I don't see how it could otherwise happen. Perhaps someone could enlighten me. I do see you as a threat to me and I am saying so on this forum. If you don't like it, tough. I don't know how serious this bug is going to be and neither do you. At least I take the advice of someone qualified to give it. Doctors. Sadly, there is no known vaccine for mass stupidity either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I did not say there was no danger, nor did I claim that the vaccine was a government plot. Lying and spreading misinformation really is a way of life for you isn't it? Please quote me exactly where I said it was a government plot and where I stated there was no danger. It’s clear that you're not actually reading my posts. Let me spell it out for you again. I specifically stated that the H1N1 is no more dangerous than the regular flu. You maintain that it is in spite of evidence and statistics that show it is not. what stats dave, those you make up? the CDC is saying flu deaths are up over normal numbers. Pediatric deaths where type of flu was confirmed H1N1 deaths are 4 times those of Influenza A...in fact there are three types of "seasonal" flus and numerous subtypes and H1N1 appears to be killing more than all of them combined... CDC seasonal flu Again this only proves you have no reliable sources as I suspected.as demonstrated by your lack of research into stats you make it up as you go along or dig up the info from blogs that are as ill informed as you...the answer was already given in the thread but you weren't able to pick up on it... I don't suppose you care to quote where I state, implied, inferred or otherwise alluded to the notions you are attributing to me? Because I don't blindly swallow the hype you seem so willing to doesn't mean I wish anyone harm. Critical thinking means you approach each and every situation with forethought, you base your decisions on facts and figures, not simply do as the media tells you or go as the masses go. No hype is making the mundane into something sensational. There are thousands of seasonal flu deaths every single year all over the globe and they don't get the level of media attention that the deaths from H1N1 have had. Why all the attention to H1N1, if it has proven heretofore to be no more virulent than the seasonal flu that is indeed hype. you precieve hype where there is none then pretend to be all mature and sophisticated adult keeping calm in the storm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 what stats dave, those you make up? the CDC is saying flu deaths are up over normal numbers. Pediatric deaths where type of flu was confirmed H1N1 deaths are 4 times those of Influenza A...in fact there are three types of "seasonal" flus and numerous subtypes and H1N1 appears to be killing more than all of them combined...CDC seasonal flu CDC is USA....Americans....what do they know? Besides, they are also reporting that 99% of reported influena is H1N1 A....go figure. What does Canada say? Or the UK? Or Belarus? Or Botwanna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
segnosaur Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 There's no doubt the media has drastically overplayed this whole issue. You're right... it has been 'overplayed'. Still, it is a good idea to get the shot. Hopefully, the overhype and the recent problems of shortages/long lineups/etc. won't turn people against the idea of getting innoculated. I'm not convinced that I should get the vaccine, and I think it would be best to wait a little while so the proper medical testing can be done. The vaccine has already undergone significant testing. No significant side effects were found, and it managed to create the proper immune response in over 95% of all individuals. Here's a link to one such study.... (There are, of course, others) http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0907413 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 You're right... it has been 'overplayed'. Still, it is a good idea to get the shot. Hopefully, the overhype and the recent problems of shortages/long lineups/etc. won't turn people against the idea of getting innoculated..... More people will not get vaccinated because the very same government and media hype machine is telling them that high risk groups are first in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 More people will not get vaccinated because the very same government and media hype machine is telling them that high risk groups are first in line. High risk groups should not be first in line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 High risk groups should not be first in line? No, but the implicit message is that there are less risk groups, which will motivate different behaviours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Watching the National last night and there was a doctor on answering questions regarding H1N1. A young woman with a 2 month old baby asked if she should be vaccinated. She was told that as the child was too young to be vaccinated, she should and that she should try and prevent the child from being exposed as much as possible. I'm wondering what other strategy she was considering. Go to the grocery store, get infected by someone else who was maybe too stupid to get immunized when they should have been or doesn't care about infecting others and then take the disease home to her kid? Jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 No, but the implicit message is that there are less risk groups, which will motivate different behaviours. I think the risk factor is in the possible severity of the disease, not the odds of getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 I think the risk factor is in the possible severity of the disease, not the odds of getting it. Agreed, but the resulting behaviours will be the same (i.e. it's just the flu). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 High risk groups should not be first in line? No, if you are not in a high risk group, hold off getting the vaccine and let the ones who need it most, get it. Even if I am a carrier, and the high risk groups get the vaccine that is the most logical course of action to prevent them from gettin infected. My chances of surviving the flu are better than someone who has an already existing medical condition. Wilber I think the risk factor is in the possible severity of the disease, not the odds of getting it. And the risk and death rate from this swine flu h1n1 is extremely low when you look at overall flu statistics and deaths. Canada has had under 100 deatsh related to it. Regular flu takes care of that amount of people almost every hour. So really why are people all in a panic? And the numbers are most likely padded, because you need more in depth analysis to determine if you actually have the N1N1-A, or H1N1-B. For all intents and purposes they act and affect people in very much the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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