No Wonder the Israeli's attack the Palestinians!

[DogOnPorch]

Your attempts at wit in English are falling flat. Perhaps if you use your native Slovak or Turk or what-ever-the-heck-you-are and then I'll send it through the bablefish.

[benny]

Not as much as SubSaharan Africans...but there is no Jew baiting fun in that...huh?

Yes, Israel is a distraction all too convenient for the wealthy.

[KrustyKidd]

oh? they agreed to the partition border? that's a lie.

Here is their declaration of independence.

ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

If you bother to compare the border of Israel with the UN resolution borders you will find them the same. Hence, the agreed.

The Arabs did not. Not even to this day.

your comments does not change the fact that around 20% of israel's military comes from the U.S. without it, they wouldn't have their F16 and the apache.

Heck, they invented much of the stuff so sure, makes sense to me. And, like many counties they are allowed to purchase arms from the US. I take it you prefer them to buy from the Russians? That would be a pretty unlikely scenario as they supply virtually all the captured Soviet and Russian equipment to the US for examination so the Russians would be less than amiable to have their purchased equipment torn apart and sold for intelligence.

really? what about their military presence every else in the middle east?

Like where Dub? Where are you going to place a multi billion dollar port facility to dock your carrier group for resupply while being close to Saudi Arbia, Syria, Iraq but not actually being there? And, have all the spare parts you need for your aircraft, missiles, and not have to worry about quality of same. Even have strategic aircraft resupply without having to put up with hate America parades. Heck, the troops can even get off and go have a beer without having to put up with being accused of soiling holy land.

israel gives no advantage to the U.S.

they already have major presence around the mediterranean like in turkey. they also have many other bases throughout the middle east. also, it's not like israel gives the U.S. a resource advantage like countries like saudi and kuwait do.

They do. Besides the 1981 Memorandum of Understanding

and the fact that Saudi Arabia is now taboo ground to launch actions against other Arab nations, from, none of them are equipped with state of the art facilities to work on equipment that they themselves helped develop like Israel has done.

israel is a disadvantage both economically and in security.

Aside from ensuring that the Russians will never gain a foothold in their territory, defeating Russian equipped hostile neighbors, providing port facilities complete with US stored equipment, joint Special Forces training, shared intelligence against common enemies, joint sharing of technoligical defense industries, taking out threats to regional and world security such as Iraq's, Syria's and soon, Iran's nuclear facilities - none I suppose. Egypt could do that right? Soon as you actually get them to build the infrastructure to equip themselves with US weapons, get the technology to buid same, cease all alliances with any non US friendly country so that technology won't be shared, build a world wide and worl class intelligence service that you can tap inot then all will be just great.

Until then, Israel is the only country that can do it. Cut them off, now they move towards the Russians or the Chinese, offering them maintenance facilities and shared technologies. You're now stuck resupplying yourself a thousand miles away in Naples while the Russkis get a new port of call in Haifa.

Edited June 17, 2009 by KrustyKidd

[KrustyKidd]

israeli citizens receive more of the US tax money than american citizens do. that's kind of weird, no?

Care to back this one up Dub? Considering that even you agree the three billion is in the form of defense, it hardly goes towards social programs, iunterstate maintenance, Amtrak, US postal services and such that an American citizen benifits from directly from their own tax dollars.

not to mention all the destruction they continue to create. just look at what they did in gaza recently. not to mention paralyzing the economy by their many actions.

If I recall the government of Palestine was firing rockets into Israel from positions within the area where Israel attacked in order to stop it.

wrong again, mr. wrong man. they increased the settlements in the west bank even faster. where do you think the extremist gaza settlers went after they were taken out of gaza?

When Palestinians are ready to talk peace with good faith then they should have their land. Until then, somebody may as well make use of it.

wtf? lol.

palestinian population density = 645 persons/km2

israeli population density = 324/km2

do you have any shame?

It was 150 something per square km in 1980. So much for the illusion of genocide. Israel with all their superiority and military power cannot possibly be deliberately attempting to exterminate Palestinians by your own figures as they have increased four fold.

lol.

did you miss the one about the increasing settlements and the internationally recognized annexation of palestinian land?

who is this clown?

Have the Palestinians as one voice ever accepted the UN Resolution 181? If not, since they attacked Israel who did accept it, are still in a state of war with Israel who has every right as a defender against a hostile force to use whatever ground necessary to support and defend themselves with.

you're just a big fuckup. how is it that you were able to post so much misinformation in one post?

wow.

you've made DoP and dancer look good.

You are a foul mouthed bigot. Every thread you possibly can, you interject your hatred of Jews into it. Your opinion is tainted and your proof is nonexistent. While Bonam's fact's may not be 100%, they are far superior to the ones that you make up out of thin air mixed with hatred.

[dub]

Here is their declaration of independence.

huh? that's the declaration of independence.

where does it say that israel accepted the borders drawn in the partition plan? seriously buddy, get real.

If you bother to compare the border of Israel with the UN resolution borders you will find them the same. Hence, the agreed.

The Arabs did not. Not even to this day.

huh? hence, they agreed? you're lying again. israel never agreed to the partition plan borders. in fact, they haven't agreed to any borders drawn up, including the 1967 border.

the PLO recognized israel and the internationally recognized 1967 borders. look it up.

israel doesn't. look it up.

Heck, they invented much of the stuff so sure, makes sense to me. And, like many counties they are allowed to purchase arms from the US. I take it you prefer them to buy from the Russians? That would be a pretty unlikely scenario as they supply virtually all the captured Soviet and Russian equipment to the US for examination so the Russians would be less than amiable to have their purchased equipment torn apart and sold for intelligence.

they invented the f16 and apache? oookay.

israel gets $3billion a year, which is mostly used towards the military and they don't have to pay back.

i don't think russia would give israel $3billion a year. so israel is going to continue to get handouts from the U.S.

Like where Dub? Where are you going to place a multi billion dollar port facility to dock your carrier group for resupply while being close to Saudi Arbia, Syria, Iraq but not actually being there?

ahh.. persian gulf maybe? they have other bases around the mediterranean like in turkey. look it up.

And, have all the spare parts you need for your aircraft, missiles, and not have to worry about quality of same. Even have strategic aircraft resupply without having to put up with hate America parades. Heck, the troops can even get off and go have a beer without having to put up with being accused of soiling holy land.

US has a lot of bases in the middle east. they don't need israel, israel needs the U.S. oh and don't worry about the soldier's drinking. they get their alcohol.

you really should look at all the bases the US has in the middle east. including the biggest in iraq.

strategically, the US does not need to be giving israel $3billion of free handout money. not to mention to fight israel's wars like the iraq war which is costing billions on its own. the only result for supporting israel is that the arab world end up also hating the US and not just israel for their treatment of the palestinians. not to mention it makes US look bad internationally for supporting a country that breaks international law.

[dub]

Care to back this one up Dub? Considering that even you agree the three billion is in the form of defense, it hardly goes towards social programs, iunterstate maintenance, Amtrak, US postal services and such that an American citizen benifits from directly from their own tax dollars.

eh?

back what up? US taxpayer money goes to israel. divide $3billion a year by 6 million and you figure out the rest.

If I recall the government of Palestine was firing rockets into Israel from positions within the area where Israel attacked in order to stop it.

and as you probably don't want to recall, they are under investigation for war crimes. an investigation that is headed by a respected jewish lawyer which they will not cooperate with.

When Palestinians are ready to talk peace with good faith then they should have their land. Until then, somebody may as well make use of it.

lol. are you purposely trying to make a funny? you're basically saying that israel will stop stealing palestinian land and then they will give it back to the palestinians.. blah blah.

why is israel following the law have to have a pre-condition?

plus, as it has been already mentioned, the PLO officially recognized israel and the 1967 border. what did that bring?

It was 150 something per square km in 1980. So much for the illusion of genocide. Israel with all their superiority and military power cannot possibly be deliberately attempting to exterminate Palestinians by your own figures as they have increased four fold.

as if israel would be able to get away with mass extermination. what they're doing is pushing the envelop to the max allowed by the US and they continue to get away with it. they hare systematically annexing palestinian land and are violating international law by continuing to expand the settlements.

Have the Palestinians as one voice ever accepted the UN Resolution 181? If not, since they attacked Israel who did accept it, are still in a state of war with Israel who has every right as a defender against a hostile force to use whatever ground necessary to support and defend themselves with.

defend yourself does not include annexing land. why are the settlements in the west bank increasing? how is that defending yourself? how do you take yourself seriously with comments like that?

You are a foul mouthed bigot. Every thread you possibly can, you interject your hatred of Jews into it. Your opinion is tainted and your proof is nonexistent. While Bonam's fact's may not be 100%, they are far superior to the ones that you make up out of thin air mixed with hatred.

yes. criticism of israel makes me a bigot. are you going to play the tired old anti-semitism card again?

bonam's comments all had either lies or misinformation. if you see me making a mistake, by all means point them out, because just declaring that that i make things up out of thin air is not going to cut it.

[KrustyKidd]

huh? that's the declaration of independence.

where does it say that israel accepted the borders drawn in the partition plan? seriously buddy, get real.

AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

Any other Resolution they might be talking about?

huh? hence, they agreed? you're lying again. israel never agreed to the partition plan borders. in fact, they haven't agreed to any borders drawn up, including the 1967 border.

They lived it. Adhered to the borders until forced to defend themselves against those who did not adhere to the Resolution.

the PLO recognized israel and the internationally recognized 1967 borders. look it up.

israel doesn't. look it up.

Why would they? They're still at war with people who can't even make peace much less keep it.

Look it up. Intifada, Hamas Charter.

Hamas has no intention but the to destroy Israel which would mean of course, wholesale slaughter of every Israeli. Look it up *** ***.

they invented the f16 and apache? oookay.

Nope. They were intrumental in much of the avionics of them though I'm sure. Just as they make guidence systems for WACS and unmanned aircraft and missiles. Oh, they also make small arms and ammo too.

israel gets $3billion a year, which is mostly used towards the military and they don't have to pay back.

i don't think russia would give israel $3billion a year. so israel is going to continue to get handouts from the U.S.

Holy! Now you are beginning to get it! It's good for the US and, good for Israel. See, like I said, if the US stops, then Israel will get the money from somewhere be it cutting back on border openings, guards and such and rather just wall off Gaza and forget about it.

ahh.. persian gulf maybe? they have other bases around the mediterranean like in turkey. look it up.

Oh, so now you're going to move the sixth fleet from the Med to the Persian Gulf. That'll be a half trillion. And what will you replace the sixth fleet with to counter the Russian presence that now uses Haifa as a port? And how long will it take to build the facility in Port Said in Egypt to take a Carrier Group? Holy. By the time this is over the entire geopolitics of the world will have changed.

US has a lot of bases in the middle east. they don't need israel, israel needs the U.S. oh and don't worry about the soldier's drinking. they get their alcohol.

you really should look at all the bases the US has in the middle east. including the biggest in iraq.

Sixth fleet has never been there. They are the Mediterranean Fleet. They need Israel to support Iraq ops as Israel is closer to Iraq than another facility in Naples is.

strategically, the US does not need to be giving israel $3billion of free handout money. not to mention to fight israel's wars like the iraq war which is costing billions on its own. the only result for supporting israel is that the arab world end up also hating the US and not just israel for their treatment of the palestinians. not to mention it makes US look bad internationally for supporting a country that breaks international law.

You do know what Qutbism is don't you? Really has nothing to do with Israel or the west but rather purity of, Safelism. Jews and the west are only the vehicle with which they wish to promulgate their power. Look up Al Qaeda and the Caliphate, Safelism and Qutbism. And Iraq was of a scant threat to Israel when the US legally invaded in order to place direct pressure on Saudi Arabia to confront their Qutbist infestation.

** Edited to remove strong personal inflection.

Edited June 17, 2009 by KrustyKidd

[KrustyKidd]

eh?

back what up? US taxpayer money goes to israel. divide $3billion a year by 6 million and you figure out the rest.

Ya. It's five hundred dollars per person. Are you going to tell me that per capita, the average tax bill including income tax of the US citizen is less than five hundred dollars?

Golly. You have every American wishing you were running their tax system!

and as you probably don't want to recall, they are under investigation for war crimes. an investigation that is headed by a respected jewish lawyer which they will not cooperate with.

Ooooooooo. And how many Hams leaders are being charged?

lol. are you purposely trying to make a funny? you're basically saying that israel will stop stealing palestinian land and then they will give it back to the palestinians.. blah blah.

Nope. Saying that they have absolutely no reason to do anything as long as they are being attacked. Really quite simple as it is war and has been ever since day one in '48 when they were abiding by Resolution 181 and the Arabs refused it from it's inception. You know ..... immediately.

plus, as it has been already mentioned, the PLO officially recognized israel and the 1967 border. what did that bring?

The intifada, Hamas, more attacks and Israeli deaths.

as if israel would be able to get away with mass extermination. what they're doing is pushing the envelop to the max allowed by the US and they continue to get away with it. they hare systematically annexing palestinian land and are violating international law by continuing to expand the settlements.

Why would they not be able to get away with mass exterminations? Heck, every loon thinks they are doing it anyhow. And, removing US support just might make this a popular thing to do rather than give up security in any way shape or form. I suppose this is what you are after isn't it? To push Israel into taking shortcuts?

The only shortcut they will accept is to ensure their own security. If settlements helps them then they will. If making peace will do it then that is what they will do. Attacking them, threatening them and cutting off aid won't do anything.

defend yourself does not include annexing land. why are the settlements in the west bank increasing? how is that defending yourself? how do you take yourself seriously with comments like that?

Easy. Since the first time I went to Syria and Israel in 1978 there was a saying that proved itself time and time again and that is 'A Palestinian never passes up a chance to lose an opportunity.' Been there three times since then and followed the progress (and yes there has been progress) but that phrase has held.

yes. criticism of israel makes me a bigot. are you going to play the tired old anti-semitism card again?

bonam's comments all had either lies or misinformation. if you see me making a mistake, by all means point them out, because just declaring that that i make things up out of thin air is not going to cut it.

You always seem to take an anti Israeli side, even when it has nothingn to do with Israel such as the Iranian thread. I have no side to take. I see Israel dong something they should not do but, understand that Palestinians have no history of even agreeing with one another so, why should Israel base their security on a bunch of loose cannons who can't even come together to make a peace offering? Heck, they refused it from day one and continued in one way or another since then so, why shouldn't some faction be allowed to make use of the land while Palestinians fight o=amongst themselves and kill their own women and children in numbers that the UN should be investigating with the vigor or an anti Israeli witch hunt?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The new PM of that nation is a real problem for middle east terrorists. He has been there before, and this time I think he wants to do something big. Watch for the signs before the coming of the storm.

[Bonam]

if you see me making a mistake, by all means point them out, because just declaring that that i make things up out of thin air is not going to cut it.

Haha, how hypocritical. Your refutation of other's posts is "clown, wrong man, fuckup" with no supporting facts.

US taxpayer money goes to israel. divide $3billion a year by 6 million and you figure out the rest.

3,000,000,000/6,000,000 = $500

In comparison, the US budget is ~3 trillion, and it has a population of 300 million.

3,000,000,000,000/300,000,000 = $10,000

10,000 per US citizen, 20 times more than per Israeli citizen.

Who is it that's spreading lies and misinformation?

[bush_cheney2004]

....strategically, the US does not need to be giving israel $3billion of free handout money. not to mention to fight israel's wars like the iraq war which is costing billions on its own. the only result for supporting israel is that the arab world end up also hating the US and not just israel for their treatment of the palestinians. not to mention it makes US look bad internationally for supporting a country that breaks international law.

Yours is a different version of reality (and history)...from the the very expensive peace agreements between Israel, Egypt, and Jordan (all have received billions in US economic, military, and humanitarian aid). The Palestinians squandered their US aid. If looking bad is a top priority, you might want to update Canada's role in support and "wars for Israel".

[Oleg Bach]

Yours is a different version of reality (and history)...from the the very expensive peace agreements between Israel, Egypt, and Jordan (all have received billions in US economic, military, and humanitarian aid). The Palestinians squandered their US aid. If looking bad is a top priority, you might want to update Canada's role in support and "wars for Israel".

Drive though your average enclave in Toronto - for years there have been a mass of posters every quarter mile - Signs that say - support Israel - which means sending billions of dollars in private money to the little nation..combine this with offical aid - and we are talking about a very very rich place - You say that Palistine squandered it's aid - well Israel hords it or sends it back to their friends in Washington to feed the war supplies buisness - If for instance you hand Palistine a million - and Isreal a billion - you are going to have a disparity where one is master who has the cash - and the other is the servant - and an abused one at that...What is there for the Palistinians to squander - It's like giving allowance to two sons- one you give a hundred dollars and to the other you give a dollar - when the dollar son complains - you say - Hey I gave you money and you squandered it - This rationalization does not fly buddy.

[bush_cheney2004]

You say that Palistine squandered it's aid - well Israel hords it or sends it back to their friends in Washington to feed the war supplies buisness - If for instance you hand Palistine a million - and Isreal a billion - you are going to have a disparity where one is master who has the cash - and the other is the servant - and an abused one at that

You of all people should know better.....life ain't fair that way. Israel (and now Iraq) have a much better Sugar Daddy than Palestine or Syria....still...we know that Ararfart pissed away the hundreds of millions given to Palestine for basic things like sewer and water.

...What is there for the Palistinians to squander - It's like giving allowance to two sons- one you give a hundred dollars and to the other you give a dollar - when the dollar son complains - you say - Hey I gave you money and you squandered it - This rationalization does not fly buddy.

Then where is your money....buddy. Some folks like to write big checks with their mouths when other people's money are paying the bills....over $150 billion from America since 1979 for "peace" in the Mideast.

Carter got a Nobel Peace Prize (very expensive).

[Oleg Bach]

Listening to "native radio" - a few years back ---- a small operation ...of INDIANS - Mohawks I believe -- They talked about investments in Palistine...I was astounded when I heard that they established a Casino in Palistine --- that they gave Arafat a big kick back - AND at the same time gave Sharon the same amount - This was not publicly exposed but the dumb INDIANS were never very good at political correctness..The casino was quickly destroyed but this did take place ----a mafia in Palistine - and one operating out of Israel - in mutual co-operation ---- they have a rule of thumb - everybody must get paid ----THIS is the real relationship between the two little squaters - both are crimminal enterpises - America knows - Israel knows and Hamas knows - but the public does not.

[DogOnPorch]

Drive though your average enclave in Toronto - for years there have been a mass of posters every quarter mile - Signs that say - support Israel - which means sending billions of dollars in private money to the little nation..combine this with offical aid - and we are talking about a very very rich place - You say that Palistine squandered it's aid - well Israel hords it or sends it back to their friends in Washington to feed the war supplies buisness - If for instance you hand Palistine a million - and Isreal a billion - you are going to have a disparity where one is master who has the cash - and the other is the servant - and an abused one at that...What is there for the Palistinians to squander - It's like giving allowance to two sons- one you give a hundred dollars and to the other you give a dollar - when the dollar son complains - you say - Hey I gave you money and you squandered it - This rationalization does not fly buddy.

Israel is a modern country with a market economy. Its GDP is about 200 billion US dollars and growing. Trade with the US alone generates some 13-20 billion a year. With this in context, Israel gets 3 billion a year mainly for military items it can't produce itself. Jet fuel, diesel and petrol being some of the main forms this military aid comes in. Seems to work out well for both parties with this arrangement.

Ever since the Arabs lost THEIR sugar daddy, the Soviet Union, they've had to BUY their weapons rather than get them free of charge. That or ask countries like Iran to get involved...which they have.

[benny]

Israel is a modern country with a market economy. Its GDP is about 200 billion US dollars and growing. Trade with the US alone generates some 13-20 billion a year. With this in context, Israel gets 3 billion a year mainly for military items it can't produce itself. Jet fuel, diesel and petrol being some of the main forms this military aid comes in. Seems to work out well for both parties with this arrangement.

Ever since the Arabs lost THEIR sugar daddy, the Soviet Union, they've had to BUY their weapons rather than get them free of charge. That or ask countries like Iran to get involved...which they have.

Just speaking of the GDP is irresponsible. What about the sustainability of this production? For Israel, this sustainability has not only an environmental aspect but an apocalyptic aspect.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just speaking of the GDP is irresponsible. What about the sustainability of this production? For Israel, this sustainability has not only an environmental aspect but an apocalyptic aspect.

This didn't stop Canada or the USA......

[benny]

This didn't stop Canada or the USA......

This will not stop me!

[DogOnPorch]

Just speaking of the GDP is irresponsible. What about the sustainability of this production? For Israel, this sustainability has not only an environmental aspect but an apocalyptic aspect.

I'm sure Israelis will happily cut your uncut diamonds until there are no more uncut diamonds to cut. As for your religious wackiness...pffffffft.

Edited June 17, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[jbg]

why not compare israel to the western countries like US and canada who don't put a restriction based on religion?

The context is entirely different. The U.S., Canada, and Australia have noticeably peaceable borders and internally law abiding popularions. In the U.S. neither Johnson (a Democrat) nor Nixon (a Republican) had any trouble getting pretty edgy with really violent rebels.

[jbg]

since when did US start giving canada $3billion of your tax money every year?

sometimes you get really silly with your comparisons.

Maybe having a 5000 km border that doesn't need to be defended amounts to such a subsidy. Maybe not needing a significant national defense force also amounts to such a subsidy. Israel is a major strategic asset in that it's the only stable, reliable, trustworthy country in that vital area of the world.

[jbg]

I'm proposing that Israel become only the name of a Jewish neighborhood, next to the Lamentation Wall, inside a Palestinian state.

Pretty much Ahemenjad's peace proposal. Good work.

[jbg]

We debate to detect lies.

[jbg]

Bet that Iran will play also the glacier-meltdown card.

Does Iran have glaciers? I don't know.

[jbg]

You are not unemployed.

Are you?