Topaz Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Here in Ontario gas is and will be a looney per litre and if its true what I heard, that gas prices will go as high as 1.80 per litre before they come down, that is not going to help the economy. On Friday, a news pwerson was in the African country of Nigeria and there's unrest and the US gas companies get do business. Yeah right they probably started the unrest to up the prices of oil and gas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Our politicals are beholding to their buddies in the oil buisness - it's about time they stopped doing them favours - how much damned money do these jerks need? There is more to life that some old out of date executive that habitually collects billions with out a real purpose to generating such corporate and personal wealth - These men that toy with us and our addiction to the auto - are not untouchable - legislate them into a position of being responsible Canadian citizens - and also be firm with those selling oil from abroad - How would the Saudis or the Columbians feel if our whole nation went on strike and stopped working and driving - for a week? Time to hit back...why do we let these bastards and their political henchmen torment us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 I don't see them going to $1.80 this year. They might, but I highly doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 I don't see them going to $1.80 this year. They might, but I highly doubt it. It will be an insult if they do. You can fool the people once but not twice- such a price is unwarranted. You will find that oil merchants will stop underestimating the resolve and intelligence of the people - If car companies can go belly up - Oil companies are not immune - They may think they are all powerful...people can adjust to poverty - and as they do there will be a trickle up effect...The vacilation of gas prices is psychological war fare - to break the resolve and spirt of the people - It's like a lover that assualts the partner then kisses them - then strikes then kisses - the lover will stay under control via confusion - but eventually will walk out the door - and not play the game - Oil merchants are assholes - cruel - rude and abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafless Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Our politicals are beholding to their buddies in the oil buisness - it's about time they stopped doing them favours - how much damned money do these jerks need? The more money for their buddies in the oil buisness means more tax money in federal and provincial coffers. Looks like the recession is ending and it is back to fun and games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 With an increase of that size my guess is that the Alberta deficit will disappear very quickly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 With an increase of that size my guess is that the Alberta deficit will disappear very quickly! What deficit? Maybe if the Americans bring up the price to 50 dollars a gallon, they can get rid of their deficit.like the trillions they supposedly owe to China - they will never catch up - or clear the debt - nor will any other nation on earth - if you have not noticed money is useless...and has no real value - the illusion is over - we may as well admit that we are full of shit in these regards and forgive every last debt globally and start fresh ---- what are we to do - chase this artifical spector of finacial gloom around and let the illusion control us? To hell with it - repeat after me - we are rich - all of us..and those that like to pretend they are rich can start working as brick layers...or maybe grow some corn...and get out of their ivory towers build from glass and steel...It's a damned joke- why do we take ourselves and our system seriously? It is beyound me - those parasites that expect nations to pay interest for eternity can change to sucking poop and give up this cannibal vampirism.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 What deficit? Maybe if the Americans bring up the price to 50 dollars a gallon, they can get rid of their deficit.like the trillions they supposedly owe to China - they will never catch up - or clear the debt - nor will any other nation on earth - if you have not noticed money is useless...and has no real value - the illusion is over - we may as well admit that we are full of shit in these regards and forgive every last debt globally and start fresh ---- what are we to do - chase this artifical spector of finacial gloom around and let the illusion control us? To hell with it - repeat after me - we are rich - all of us..and those that like to pretend they are rich can start working as brick layers...or maybe grow some corn...and get out of their ivory towers build from glass and steel...It's a damned joke- why do we take ourselves and our system seriously? It is beyound me - those parasites that expect nations to pay interest for eternity can change to sucking poop and give up this cannibal vampirism.. Alberta came out on the wrong side of the balance sheet last budget. So we are spending more than we were taking in. The Americans are in serious trouble right now. More trouble than most people know. Their debt was being financed with the purchase of U.S. T-Bills purchased by and large by the Chinese. Interesting that they were the true cause of their trade deficit and the major source of the outflow of cash leaving their nation. The USA has been departing the manufacturing sector in terms of consumer goods for some time. The reason for this is simply an economic one, costs of production are lower outside of the country than in. Of course this was not a government decision but instead a corporate one. This translates into less jobs which also impacts the revenue stream for the fed with a shortfall of humans to tax. At the same time the feds get to pay for unemployment and welfare which also hits the health care corner with increased expenses as well. So while they are expanding their expenditures they are reducing their income, a sure ticket to massive fiscal problems. Add to that the baby boomer's are just now starting to collect their social security or government pension checks, just wait till the full slate of these citizens kicks in. Now here is where the waters get a little muddy because none of these things have anything to do with the current financial crisis which originated with the financial system, and the feds know this. Yet you certainly don't hear them talking about this problem. The financial problems of this world could be resolved with a general amnesty on debt, the Romans did this on occasion when things were getting out of hand but there is a large difference between a city state and the entire independent international community. Such a move would expose the real power holders on this planet, not a likely scenario at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 ....So while they are expanding their expenditures they are reducing their income, a sure ticket to massive fiscal problems. Add to that the baby boomer's are just now starting to collect their social security or government pension checks, just wait till the full slate of these citizens kicks in. Now here is where the waters get a little muddy because none of these things have anything to do with the current financial crisis which originated with the financial system, and the feds know this. Yet you certainly don't hear them talking about this problem. The looming American Social Security "problem" doesn't happen until 2039; the far larger problem is Medicare. Both are political problems, not economic. The US feds (and states) talk plenty about this and have done so for the past 30 years. The financial problems of this world could be resolved with a general amnesty on debt, the Romans did this on occasion when things were getting out of hand but there is a large difference between a city state and the entire independent international community. Such a move would expose the real power holders on this planet, not a likely scenario at all. If this were true, then sub-Saharan Africa wouldn't be such an economic basketcase. A general amnesty would just reset the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 The looming American Social Security "problem" doesn't happen until 2039; the far larger problem is Medicare. Both are political problems, not economic. The US feds (and states) talk plenty about this and have done so for the past 30 years. That is simply not true. The funding is already an issue, and the that they have failed to address the issue even though they have known about it for the last three decades doesn't exactly speak toward an honest public disclosure. I already stated that the health care issue is looming. These problems are not in reality political ones since the funding and policies are already in place, they have since begun to be economic problems instead. Talking about it hasn't served them very well. If this were true, then sub-Saharan Africa wouldn't be such an economic basketcase. A general amnesty would just reset the game. Reseting the game it likely less harmful than continuing the present course of action don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Canada has a petro-dollar. Oil prices are increasing, the US dollar is dropping again, the Canadian dollar is on it's way back up, more people are investing in Canada, Canadian markets are on their way up. This is a very, very good sign. When gas prices were at their highest, we also had the strongest economy we'd ever had. As much as we loathe to pay higher gas prices, we should most definitely be hoping for them, as they are a sure-fire sign of our economic recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Rider Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Canada has a petro-dollar. Oil prices are increasing, the US dollar is dropping again, the Canadian dollar is on it's way back up, more people are investing in Canada, Canadian markets are on their way up. This is a very, very good sign.When gas prices were at their highest, we also had the strongest economy we'd ever had. As much as we loathe to pay higher gas prices, we should most definitely be hoping for them, as they are a sure-fire sign of our economic recovery. Down side to a strong dollar is our exports of other goods and materials suffer. And while high crude prices are good news for those few Provinces that produce oil, they are bad news for the rest of the Provinces. I'm a freight broker by trade, and when the C$ topped out around US1.2 awhile back, I saw a huge decrease in Canadian exports south and watched more then a few long established trucking firms go out of business. Also, high crude prices directly translate in to even higher diesel prices at the pump, which means everything you eat, wear, or use will cost you more, a lot more in some cases. So be careful about what you wish for, you may just get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Canada has a petro-dollar. Oil prices are increasing, the US dollar is dropping again, the Canadian dollar is on it's way back up, more people are investing in Canada, Canadian markets are on their way up. This is a very, very good sign. Canada certainly has a resource based dollar. Higher royalties will probably help Alberta's bottom line and keep Saskatchewan in continued good shape. It won't help other areas of Canada as much or the U.S. which in turn will keep runaway demand in check. The stock market has recovered a bit but make no mistake, there are plenty of bumps coming. Too many companies are tottering still. When gas prices were at their highest, we also had the strongest economy we'd ever had. As much as we loathe to pay higher gas prices, we should most definitely be hoping for them, as they are a sure-fire sign of our economic recovery. It could also be stagflation. A stagnant economy mixed with higher energy prices. We've seen that before too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 That is simply not true. The funding is already an issue, and the that they have failed to address the issue even though they have known about it for the last three decades doesn't exactly speak toward an honest public disclosure. I already stated that the health care issue is looming. These problems are not in reality political ones since the funding and policies are already in place, they have since begun to be economic problems instead. Talking about it hasn't served them very well. I don't think I was clear enough...it is a political problem because the systemic shortfalls can easily be restored by reducing benefits, means testing, and/or extending the retirement age. Congress created the current payroll funding mechanisms and can change them if the political will existed. As for public disclosure, one need only review the presidential campaign of Ross Perot in 1992 and 1996. He lost. Reseting the game it likely less harmful than continuing the present course of action don't you think? Doesn't matter....as the pain of forgiven debt (less capital) may be greater than the existing burden of servicing debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Here in Ontario gas is and will be a looney per litre and if its true what I heard, that gas prices will go as high as 1.80 per litre before they come down...Retail prices in Canada of Cdn $1.80 per litre would require world oil prices of crude oil around at least US $140. I just don`t see this happening unless OPEC became much better organized or some political event occurred.What should Canadians want? I think too many Canadians don't quite understand how higher oil prices benefit them. With higher oil prices, people seek alternatives in electricity, natural gas and uranium. The goods (paper products, alumnium for example) intensive in energy became scarce. Canada has these things, all across the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 OPEC oil prices are only PART of the picture these days. Now we are facing VERY obvious and VERY clear price gouging from our own continental oil companies. We can see what a barrell of crude costs at any given point in time. We can see that ANY bad news excuse will drive the price up instantaneously, but when the prices are a LOT more sticky on the way down. What's also interesting is that when crude prices DO go up, gasoline prices go up proportionally more than the crude markets would suggest they should. There weren't more taxes on the crude, there were no increased costs in refining it. When gasoline prices rise faster than crude prices, and fall slower than crude prices, that's profiteering and nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 It's not just the price of oil but the supply of the commodity as well. Distillate reserves have been growing at a greater rate than gasoline reserves so the price of diesel has remained fairly stable. Diesel is about 13 cents a liter cheaper than regular right now, the exact opposite of this time last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Is it to bold to say - and is it an impossiblity - for government to cap prices and keep them reasonable and stable? If they can not do that - it means that oil companies are more powerful than governments - Then why if this is the case do we even have a government? May as well clear out parliment and have the oil barrons use the office space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 It's not just the price of oil but the supply of the commodity as well. Distillate reserves have been growing at a greater rate than gasoline reserves so the price of diesel has remained fairly stable. Diesel is about 13 cents a liter cheaper than regular right now, the exact opposite of this time last year. Supply and demand is obviously a factor. What I'm talking about, however, is how gasoline prices fluctuate higher and faster when crude prices are rising, but fall slower and are stickier on the way down. When oil was going for $40 a barrel, we weren't paying $40/barrell oil prices. We were paying $50-60 per barrel prices. it's a telling tale when even Harper admits things might need changing like he did last september.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Is it to bold to say - and is it an impossiblity - for government to cap prices and keep them reasonable and stable? If they can not do that - it means that oil companies are more powerful than governments - Then why if this is the case do we even have a government? May as well clear out parliment and have the oil barrons use the office space. They were doing it in China. It costs the government a fortune because oil is ultimately market driven. The only way to do it is subsidize the prices. On the other hand, government COULD regulate the margins the refiners etc are allowed to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Supply and demand is obviously a factor. What I'm talking about, however, is how gasoline prices fluctuate higher and faster when crude prices are rising, but fall slower and are stickier on the way down. Gasoline is traded completely separate from oil on world markets. Though the price of oil does make up a base for the gasoline price, it is not the only component of the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Gasoline is traded completely separate from oil on world markets. Though the price of oil does make up a base for the gasoline price, it is not the only component of the trade. 75-80% of the price of a litre of gasoline is from crude. As crude prices go up, the proportional costs of taxes, refining etc all go down. Gasoline trading seperately from crude doesn't affect what the ulimate cost of bringing a litre to the pump is. The futures exchange is a beast entirely to itself, which is what I assume you're talking about. The problem, as I said before, is that we have oligopolic oil companies controlling a VITAL commodity and through a lack of real incentives to compete, they find ways to earn tremendous profits at our expenses. When gasoline price increases vastly outpace those of crude price and when gasoline price decreases lag behind those of crude, you have to look at the other cost factors. Unless taxes, marketing or distribution/refining costs have risen, profiteering is the only remaining explanation. If the market will bear it the oil companies will swindle us. Our governments, however, do have the power to curb this, ESPECIALLY considering gas taxes are fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Gasoline trading seperately from crude doesn't affect what the ulimate cost of bringing a litre to the pump is. The futures exchange is a beast entirely to itself, which is what I assume you're talking about. Yes, but it is the futures price of gasoline, and not crude, that really sets the price. The futures price of gasoline never fell as far as that of crude. I hate it as much as you do though, and I wadn't really trying to make any type of excure for the oil companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Next Sunday, CBC`s Passionate Eye is going to have a program called`Whatever happen to the Electric Car``Its about who killed the electric car program back in the 70-80`s. I wonder what the oil and gas companies are going to do if this time around if the electric car does take off with consumers? Where will that leave the price of gas? One question I do have on that is in Ontario, we have avery high debt on Hydro and if they bring out these cars that need plugging in, how is that going to help the reduce the need on hydro? Will it increase ones hydro bill and by how much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Yes, but it is the futures price of gasoline, and not crude, that really sets the price. The futures price of gasoline never fell as far as that of crude. I hate it as much as you do though, and I wadn't really trying to make any type of excure for the oil companies. The futures exchange helps set speculative gas prices and is manipulative AT BEST, which I think we are both acknowledging. You could probably make the case that the oil companies themselves may be manipulating them to drive up price/demand artificially. It still doesn't change the cost of producing gasoline, as you know. It just helps them drive margins higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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