Liberal MP Introduces Bill to Decriminalize Marijuana

[bush_cheney2004]

You poor uninformed ignoramace.....

Oh.....the irony!

[Oleg Bach]

Oh.....the irony!

What's going on? Just got a belated pm - from a "deleted member" - it consisted of "Please Help"...what do you make of it my friend ?- do not reply if it makes you uncomfortable.

[normanchateau]

Change is in the wind for the decriminalization of marijuana possession:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Change+wi...2251/story.html

[BubberMiley]

Point being, people smoking pot (sans alcohol) are not aggressive, violent.

And there's no damn good reason for it not to be as legal as alcohol.

But not for kids.

I would have reported the guy selling it to minors.

So there!

That's why we have to get it off the street.

I agree. I think one of the worst things about criminalization (second only to the rise of organized crime) is how these laws create a black market that makes these drugs unregulated and easily available to kids. Because of their wide social circles, it is much easier for a kid in Grade 6 to buy weed than your average 40 year old man. Most don't even have to leave their school.

It just shows how the people who advocate criminalization are more interested in being holier-than-thou and abusing the legal system to persecute people they just don't like than they are interested in protecting children.

[bush_cheney2004]

What's going on? Just got a belated pm - from a "deleted member" - it consisted of "Please Help"...what do you make of it my friend ?- do not reply if it makes you uncomfortable.

Sorry dude...I do not have PM enabled for this very reason. This is like poker...show your cards here to be in the game.

[DrGreenthumb]

I agree. I think one of the worst things about criminalization (second only to the rise of organized crime) is how these laws create a black market that makes these drugs unregulated and easily available to kids. Because of their wide social circles, it is much easier for a kid in Grade 6 to buy weed than your average 40 year old man. Most don't even have to leave their school.

It just shows how the people who advocate criminalization are more interested in being holier-than-thou and abusing the legal system to persecute people they just don't like than they are interested in protecting children.

I think the violence in the drug trade is THE worst thing about criminalization. People resort to violence because they have no legal avenue for dispute resolution.

Check out this story.

Prohibition creates violence because it drives the drug market underground. This means buyers and sellers cannot resolve their disputes with lawsuits, arbitration or advertising, so they resort to violence instead.

Violence was common in the alcohol industry when it was banned during Prohibition, but not before or after.

Violence is the norm in illicit gambling markets but not in legal ones. Violence is routine when prostitution is banned but not when it's permitted. Violence results from policies that create black markets, not from the characteristics of the good or activity in question.

The only way to reduce violence, therefore, is to legalize drugs. Fortuitously, legalization is the right policy for a slew of other reasons...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/mir...rugs/index.html

[maple_leafs182]

decriminalization isn't good enough, it should be completely legal, there is no good reason for it to be illegal. Keeping it illegal does more harm then good. It's not addictive, doesn't kill brain cells, doesn't cause lung cancer.

Its just funding gangs, wastes police resources, ties up the court system with non violent drug offenses....the Canadian government spends 150 million dollars a year on courts for marijuana related charges, only a quarter are for dealers, the rest are for simple possession.

The only reason it's illegal is because of the states, why the hell do they have a DEA office in Ottawa, its not their country, get the fuck out.

I don't want to have to pay a fine for just having pot on me.

[bush_cheney2004]

The only reason it's illegal is because of the states, why the hell do they have a DEA office in Ottawa, its not their country, get the fuck out.

Canada criminalized cannabis before the United States.

I don't want to have to pay a fine for just having pot on me.

...then don't have pot "on you".

[BubberMiley]

...then don't have pot "on you".

Then never "whine" about gun control when Obama takes away your guns. Just don't have guns.

[normanchateau]

Excerpts from Dr. Keith Martin in today's Globe and Mail:

"Should the 1.5 million Canadians who smoke marijuana every year be considered criminals, prosecuted and receive a criminal record? Should teenagers convicted for possessing a small amount of pot acquire a criminal record that sticks to them for life, hindering their future employment, travel, and educational opportunities? Should the possession of a small amount of pot remain illegal - a position that has been utterly ineffective at reducing its use? Yet, 15,000 Canadians are charged with possession of pot every single year.

The only beneficiaries of the status quo are the organized crime gangs that reap massive profits from the prohibition of this weed. In fact, 70 per cent of their revenues come from the trafficking in illegal drugs. In British Columbia alone, the marijuana crop is valued at a staggering $6-billion a year.

Milton Friedman, the Nobel Prize winning economist, had it right when he said that the best way to go after organized crime gangs is to go after their money, which is their lifeblood. One way to do this is to decriminalize the possession of less than 30 grams of marijuana and two plants. This would ultimately destroy the domestic pot market for illegal crime gangs and severely weaken their financial underpinnings.

However, this initiative to decriminalize marijuana possession must do much more. It must lead to the burial of the ideology and lies that have clouded the facts around substance abuse and deprived our citizens of initiatives that will reduce use, crime and harm. The money saved from not prosecuting people caught with a small amount of pot could be used to fund prevention programs that work — like the Head Start program for children, which has been proven to reduce youth crime 60 percent, decrease drug use, and keep kids in school.

The illegal drug trade and substance abuse must be taken out from the shadows, stripped of their myths and put front and centre on the political agenda. We need to treat substance abuse as a medical problem and use the full force of the law against the organized crime gangs that are eating away at the fabric of our society. Only by doing this will we reduce criminality, reduce use and save people's lives. "

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/politics/home

[tango]

Decrim is a red herring - still maintains the 'criminal' production and distribution. Only legalization will work.

[bush_cheney2004]

Then never "whine" about gun control when Obama takes away your guns. Just don't have guns.

Obama can't take away my "guns"....not even in Canada. Try again......

Edited April 13, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[normanchateau]

Decrim is a red herring - still maintains the 'criminal' production and distribution. Only legalization will work.

I'm being pragmatic. Legalization won't occur without a transition step...decriminalization. Only 55% of Canadians support legalization whereas far more support decriminalization. All three opposition parties will support decriminalization legislation. In a free vote, I suspect even some CPC MPs will support decriminalization even though the extreme anti-libertarians and social conservatives like Harper won't.

[BubberMiley]

Obama can't take away my "guns"....not even in Canada. Try again......

He could amend your constitution and make it illegal for you to have them. But don't start whining yet. I don't think he's proposed it.

[Cuzzin E]

It's not addictive, doesn't kill brain cells, doesn't cause lung cancer.

Those are pretty bold statements

Is bold the right word?

[maple_leafs182]

Only 55% of Canadians support legalization whereas far more support decriminalization.

There u have it, that's a majority right there. So if majority of Canadians support legalization, why isn't it legalized. Who is the government trying to protect by keeping it illegal? kids? education on use and abuse is the answer, not prohibition. Why should the government even have a say in what people should and shouldn't do with there bodies.

Those are pretty bold statements

Is bold the right word?

They're true

Marijuana doesn't form a chemical dependence.

UCLA did a study proving it doesn't cause cancer- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/...60526083353.htm

And there has been no study that successfully proved marijuana kills brain cells.

don't believe me, do the research for yourself.

[benny]

Another vexed questions is raised by UCLA professor Mark Kleiman, one of the more thoughtful experts on drug policy today. Basically, he's a liberal. "Criminal punishment of marijuana use does not appear to be justified," he maintains. But legalization has big problems too. "Full commercial legalization of cannabis, on the model now applied to alcohol, would vastly increase the cannabis-abuse problem by giving the marketing geniuses who have done such a fine job persuading children to smoke tobacco, drink to excess and super-size themselves another vice to foster," he argues.

[eyeball]

The model for any and all recreational drug and alcohol use should be the same prescriptive model used for drugs like antibiotics. If the doc says your unfit to use either then you're out of luck.

Responsibile drug and alcohol users should be willing to forgo this slight civil liberty for the sake of making it easier for the state to differentiate between them and problem users. They also need safer alternatives than resorting to buying their drugs and alcohol from some gang.

[crade]

They need to start putting in in packages and taxing the heck out of it like they do with tobaco.

Only problem is then the companies will put addictive toxic crap in it to make you buy more it will start being harmful and then they will want it criminalized again

[crade]

Another vexed questions is raised by UCLA professor Mark Kleiman, one of the more thoughtful experts on drug policy today. Basically, he's a liberal. "Criminal punishment of marijuana use does not appear to be justified," he maintains. But legalization has big problems too. "Full commercial legalization of cannabis, on the model now applied to alcohol, would vastly increase the cannabis-abuse problem by giving the marketing geniuses who have done such a fine job persuading children to smoke tobacco, drink to excess and super-size themselves another vice to foster," he argues.

Oops, I guess I should read first before posting redundant ideas.. Anyway, smart guy that Mark Kleiman!

[DrGreenthumb]

Another vexed questions is raised by UCLA professor Mark Kleiman, one of the more thoughtful experts on drug policy today. Basically, he's a liberal. "Criminal punishment of marijuana use does not appear to be justified," he maintains. But legalization has big problems too. "Full commercial legalization of cannabis, on the model now applied to alcohol, would vastly increase the cannabis-abuse problem by giving the marketing geniuses who have done such a fine job persuading children to smoke tobacco, drink to excess and super-size themselves another vice to foster," he argues.

I'm not against a law that bans advertising of cannabis products, it already applies to tobacco products and SHOULD apply to alcohol products.

[crade]

I'm not against a law that bans advertising of cannabis products, it already applies to tobacco products

Advertising tobacco isn't banned... it's just restricted: http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/178/4/384-a

It's marketing that worries me, not necessarily advertising.

If the marketing crew that decided cigarettes needed to be more addictive or that decided we need candy flavored cigarettes in order to appeal to "new audiences" got a hold of marihuana, they would certainly change it into something harmful to people and society to make an extra buck off it.

Of course, this doesn't mean it is impossible that it be handled well, but it does help point out some potential pitfalls with straight legalization.

and SHOULD apply to alcohol products.

Ack! Who would sponsor our Hockey! Think ahead man!

[benny]

They need to start putting in in packages and taxing the heck out of it like they do with tobaco.

I almost always propose solving all problems (political, social, economical, etc.) with the same method: taxing all the natural resource rents out of every products and redistributing the proceeds only to those who doesn't use that product.

[maple_leafs182]

What's considered abuse?

In the Netherlands, where marijuana is legal, there is less use their then any of it's neighboring countries.

I wouldn't even buy pot from the store too often. it would be way cheaper to grow...

Edited April 15, 2009 by maple_leafs182

[M.Dancer]

What's considered abuse?

In the Netherlands, where marijuana is legal, there is less use their then any of it's neighboring countries.

I wouldn't even buy pot from the store too often. it would be way cheaper to grow...

That is a misconscption, weed is not legal in Holland....you can still wind up in jail for trafficing, exporting or importing and growing