Liberal MP Introduces Bill to Decriminalize Marijuana

[Smallc]

Mexico did it very quickly and efficiently.

I know, I was simply asking him how he would get things changed without 'whining'.

[bush_cheney2004]

I know, I was simply asking him how he would get things changed without 'whining'.

Well...let's see...in the 40 or so years that I have heard dopers whine and accomplish very little, Canada has seen fit to "legalize" abortions, same gender marriage, and orgies. So why has this seemingly large oppressed group of ganja devotees been so utterly incompetent in the workings of legislation, jurisprudence, and law enforcement?

Wait...I know...they are dopers!

Up In Smoke was better organized....

[normanchateau]

Well...let's see...in the 40 or so years that I have heard dopers whine and accomplish very little, Canada has seen fit to "legalize" abortions, same gender marriage, and orgies. So why has this seemingly large oppressed group of ganja devotees been so utterly incompetent in the workings of legislation, jurisprudence, and law enforcement?

As you know, Chretien introduced decriminalization legislation. Unfortunately he was deposed by the more conservative Paul Martin before the legislation was approved.

Ignatieff indicated in 2005 that he favoured decriminalization but he's not about to push it now when the economy is of higher priority to most Canadians, even those who want it legalized or decriminalized.

Harper of course is ideologically opposed as are the puritanical leaders of his Evangelical church so there's no chance of it happening under his watch.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Harper of course is ideologically opposed as are the puritanical leaders of his Evangelical church so there's no chance of it happening under his watch.

History lesson for pathetic progress noted, but PM Harper's stance would just be added to the tall pile of excuses.

Canada banned cannabis...Canada can legalize cannabis....but it has chosen not too.

[normanchateau]

Canada banned cannabis...Canada can legalize cannabis....but it has chosen not too.

I acknowledge your point. The political will does not appear to exist among many Canadian politicians with the exception of Jean Chretien and Keith Martin.

Joe Clark, when he was leader of the Progressive Conservatives in 2001, also indicating that he favoured decriminalization.

Of course he and Harper aren't on speaking terms these days. Add Brian Mulroney to the mix and Stephen Harper isn't on speaking terms with any former Conservative leader.

Contrast that with Ignatieff who had all the former living Liberal leaders and Prime Ministers speaking at the convention this weekend.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Contrast that with Ignatieff who had all the former living Liberal leaders and Prime Ministers speaking at the convention this weekend.

Right...if ever there were a planetary alignment to get it done it would be after the presumed coronation of Michael Ignatieff. But wait, some other political dynamic will rear its ugly head to dash smokey hopes to the ground...again.

So called "decriminalization" is just a half-assed measure that bespeaks the lack of political will, even by ardent supporters.

[benny]

And of course the politicians of the 1970's had a crystal ball telling them that this would happen when they ignored the LeDain Report.

THC concentration has doubled since the 1970's. Despite that, marijuana use has declined in countries where marijuana possession is not a crime, e.g., Portugal.

In Portugal, personal consumption limit is 2.5 gram per day of marijuana. One may possess not more than 10 daily doses, otherwise it may be categorized as trafficking. Consumption still has a penalty that may be a fine or other penalty. Cultivation, even if for personal use, is still totally illegal and cultivation of even one plant is assumed to indicate involvement with trafficking. Possession of seeds is also illegal and despite there being several "head shops" or "grow shops" in Portugal, they are not allowed to sell seeds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis

[eyeball]

What comes out of cannabis since 1972 though is higher concentrations of THC.

So what? We also seen greater concentrations of power, wealth, obesity, and a greedy need for even more of these since 1972.

[benny]

So what? We also seen greater concentrations of power, wealth, obesity, and a greedy need for even more of these since 1972.

So much so.

[Sir Bandelot]

The new facilities being built are more and more clinic-like, less and less prison-like.

Even shiny and new they're still a prison. And lets not forget the stigma of a criminal conviction for possession, which socially amounts to a life sentence. Most employers won't hire you, even years later. Thats why I say the punishment is disproportionate to the crime.

[Sir Bandelot]

What comes out of cannabis since 1972 though is higher concentrations of THC.

Much like there is also hard liquor, what it amounts to is that people generally smoke a smaller amount of it.

And that is still beside the point. At yesterdays march in Toronto, as posted on the Toronto Star article shows that between 10-30 thousand people attended, smoked their modernized weed, and did not do any damage, get violent, or need police intervention. Try that with an equally huge crowd of rip roaring drunks.

No need to try- ask cops about the average Saturday night.

Police know this full well that pot smokers are generally non combative. Potheads are commonly used as "practice" by rookie cops to learn how to make arrests, for this very reason.

[benny]

Much like there is also hard liquor, what it amounts to is that people generally smoke a smaller amount of it.

And that is still beside the point. At yesterdays march in Toronto, as posted on the Toronto Star article shows that between 10-30 thousand people attended, smoked their modernized weed, and did not do any damage, get violent, or need police intervention. Try that with an equally huge crowd of rip roaring drunks.

No need to try- ask cops about the average Saturday night.

Police know this full well that pot smokers are generally non combative. Potheads are commonly used as "practice" by rookie cops to learn how to make arrests, for this very reason.

If I feel important to play for now devil's advocate with pro-marijuana activists, it is precisely because they don't seem ready enough to start a revolution over what they believe in.

[Sir Bandelot]

Fact is, I support the decriminalization of all drugs, not only pot. Because drug use should be a health issue. I do not personally condone the use of drugs, which I see as detrimental to the person and those around them. However criminalization is even more harmful and devastating to the user and often to the family as well.

If I feel important to play for now devil's advocate with pro-marijuana activists, it is precisely because they don't seem ready enough to start a revolution over what they believe in.

The drug war is violent enough already, and shown to be grossly ineffective. People are protesting, people are writing to their members of parliament. Research is done to show the benign effects of the drug. Polls show the majority of the public supports decriminalization. Yet the prohibition continues.

It is NOT due to lack of political effort on the part of activists. Or the fact that they're all stoned... the government refuses to listen. Because of treaty obligations, policies of the UN and World Health Organization, and a US drug war economy that runs to the tune of billions of dollars annually. That and the outright callous indifference of our leadership.

[benny]

Fact is, I support the decriminalization of all drugs, not only pot. Because drug use should be a health issue. I do not personally condone the use of drugs, which I see as detrimental to the person and those around them. However criminalization is even more harmful and devastating to the user and often to the family as well.

The drug war is violent enough already, and shown to be grossly ineffective. People are protesting, people are writing to their members of parliament. Research is done to show the benign effects of the drug. Polls show the majority of the public supports decriminalization. Yet the prohibition continues.

It is NOT due to lack of political effort on the part of activists. Or the fact that they're all stoned... the government refuses to listen. Because of treaty obligations, policies of the UN and World Health Organization, and a US drug war economy that runs to the tune of billions of dollars annually. That and the outright callous indifference of our leadership.

I think that your position on drugs is in big part due to you underestimating the conflict there is in between markets (black or legal) and public policies.

[normanchateau]

May 3, 2009 9:12 p.m. Pacific Time

Seattle

"In a few weeks, Marc Emery faces an extradition hearing in Canada that could end up sending him to Seattle. He faces drug charges in U.S. District Court over his former Vancouver business that sold marijuana seeds. The charges could send him to prison for 10 years to life.

Emery is quite willing to fight the extradition through every court in Canada. And if he ends up being sent to Seattle, making a spectacle of his trial.

But he may have an easier way out.

His two codefendants settled with prosecutors on April 24 in a sweet deal for them. They, too, faced at least 10 years in prison, but prosecutors have agreed to recommend no prison time.

"If they gave me the same deal, I'd be hard-pressed not to take it," Emery, 51, said in an interview in Cannabis Culture, an online magazine he edits in Vancouver.

US federal prosecutors aren't commenting on a possible plea deal for Emery. They did have one in place a year ago, but it fell apart after the Canadian government rejected it.

An extradition hearing is scheduled for June 1 through 5 in Canada. If it takes place -- others have been scheduled, then postponed -- Emery plans to fight and take his battle through the Canadian appeals process.

Time is on his side.

The Conservative Party rules Canada as a minority, unpopular government. National elections and a change in government could take place this year."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405766_pot04.html

I wonder how many Canadians know that the US was willing to let Emery plead a deal but the Harper government vetoed it. Odd that Harper would want Emery jailed in the US given that Canada does not prosecute Canadians for selling marijuana seeds even though the US does. Harper seems intent on wanting to punish Emery. I'm no fan of Emery but you'd think Harper would have more important issues on his agenda than vetoing a US prosecution plea deal with a seed seller.

Could it have something to do with the fact that Harper's Evangelical Christian and Missionary Alliance Church leaders are strongly opposed to the use of marijuana?

How are the best interests of Canada served by having Harper veto a plea deal between US prosecutors and a Vancouver seed seller? Hundreds of marijuana seed sellers continue to do business in Vancouver and neither Vancouver police nor the RCMP have any interest in prosecuting them. Why would Harper want the US to do to Emery what Canadian law enforcement is unwilling to do to Emery?

[Oleg Bach]

At the same time they want manditory jail sentences for possession of pot ----- Translated ----YOU EITHER BUY YOUR MEDICATION FROM OUR FRIENDS (BIG PHARMA) OR WE TOSS YOU IN JAIL - IT'S ABOUT GUARDING THE VESTED INTEREST OF DRUG COMPANIES - AND OUR GOVERNMENT ARE MORE INTERESTED IN PLEASING THEIR FRIENDS....THAN MAKING LIFE BETTER FOR US...SOME POT AND YOU JUST MIGHT NOT BUY A PILL///

[normanchateau]

At the same time they want manditory jail sentences for possession of pot ----- Translated ----YOU EITHER BUY YOUR MEDICATION FROM OUR FRIENDS (BIG PHARMA) OR WE TOSS YOU IN JAIL - IT'S ABOUT GUARDING THE VESTED INTEREST OF DRUG COMPANIES - AND OUR GOVERNMENT ARE MORE INTERESTED IN PLEASING THEIR FRIENDS....THAN MAKING LIFE BETTER FOR US...

You raise a very interesting point. THC, the main psychoactive active ingredient in marijuana, acts on a brain cannabinoid receptor known as the CB1 receptor. Pharmaceutical companies have manufactured quite a few different drugs which act on the CB1 receptor. Pharmaceutical companies are permitted to sell those drugs both in Europe and North America. They're perfectly legal.

[eyeball]

Why would Harper want the US to do to Emery what Canadian law enforcement is unwilling to do to Emery?

I don't know, but it sounds like a new albeit no less dispicable form of rendition.

[benny]

You raise a very interesting point. THC, the main psychoactive active ingredient in marijuana, acts on a brain cannabinoid receptor known as the CB1 receptor. Pharmaceutical companies have manufactured quite a few different drugs which act on the CB1 receptor. Pharmaceutical companies are permitted to sell those drugs both in Europe and North America. They're perfectly legal.

When you take into account all the tactics used by pharmaceutical companies to eliminate their competitors (lobbying, dubious patent lawsuits, etc.), you have a clear illustration of the incompatibility in between market (black or legal) and public policies/regulations.