Liberal MP Introduces Bill to Decriminalize Marijuana

[benny]

a new BC poll shows that 65% of British Columbians favour decriminalization of marijuana:

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C...ishColumbiaHome

Sixty-five per cent of respondents to be exact.

[normanchateau]

Correction. Sixty-five percent of BC respondents want marijuana legalized, and not merely decriminalized:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/cent+want...6487/story.html

In this issue, the public is way ahead of the politicians.

[benny]

Correction. Sixty-five percent of BC respondents want marijuana legalized, and not merely decriminalized:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/cent+want...6487/story.html

In this issue, the public is way ahead of the politicians.

The public includes those who refuse to answer surveys, those unable to answer them and those who want to appear cool to interviewers.

[Sir Bandelot]

The public includes those who refuse to answer surveys, those unable to answer them and those who want to appear cool to interviewers.

Well thats the best data they have. Thats how a democracy works. You get to have your say, and its the majority of respondents who decide. The ones who choose not to respond, either for or against, are not counted.

You're not against democracy, are you?

[bush_cheney2004]

...Would you leave the US and move to another country because you disagreed with one piece of American legislation?

Nope...and I wouldn't whine about it either. Getting the legislation changed is more practical, something that dopers seem to be unable to do.

Edited May 3, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Smallc]

Getting the legislation changed is more practical

And how would yo go about that?

Edited May 3, 2009 by Smallc

[normanchateau]

And how would yo go about that?

Mexico did it very quickly and efficiently. A few weeks ago, their President proposed decriminalization legislation. Last week that legislation was passed by both Mexico's Senate and Congress:

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN01336313

And the reaction in Washington? No response from Obama but the Mexican Ambassador to Washington is suggesting that the US seriously consider legalizing marijuana:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Mexican_amba...juana_0412.html

Meanwhile in Canada, Stephen Harper has introduced legislation which would impose mandatory six month sentences for selling one marijuana plant. Canada is the only country in the world which in 2009 is proposing greater criminalization of marijuana.

Like Stephen Harper, President Calderon of Mexico is a social conservative. Calderón opposes issues gay marriage, abortion (including the “morning-after” pill), euthanasia and contraception education:

http://latinamericanhistory.about.com/od/p...p/fcalderon.htm

Calderon believes that decriminalization will help fight gang violence. Harper believes that increased criminalization will help fight gang violence.

Perhaps Harper's backwards beliefs are the result of messages from God. Harper's Evangelical Christian & Missionary Alliance Church leaders are absolutely opposed to the use of marijuana:

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/s...b32808e&p=2

Most Canadians favour either decriminalization or legalization.

[benny]

Well thats the best data they have. Thats how a democracy works. You get to have your say, and its the majority of respondents who decide. The ones who choose not to respond, either for or against, are not counted.

You're not against democracy, are you?

A democracy that is not deliberative is a worst political regime than despotism.

[Oleg Bach]

Look at the pot protestors --- 10 thousand of them at a recent rally - You would think these fools would have something useful to say and do - instead they get oblivious and putter about stoned as the world rots around them..pot as a life style is a disgrace - It reminds me of people with no spirit who seek it artifically - just like coke heads...it's the easy route to bliss - but it is not real - take away their pot and they are miserable. They are dependent on a substance to survive...it's not good...they should find a natural way to thrive spiritually - all they do is make crimminals rich and themselves weak...Nothing wrong with recreational use - but things have changed - It is now a daily medication for thousands.. May as well have big pharma drug them...I don't see the difference.

[Sir Bandelot]

Look at the pot protestors --- 10 thousand of them at a recent rally - You would think these fools would have something useful to say and do - instead they get oblivious and putter about stoned as the world rots around them..pot as a life style is a disgrace - It reminds me of people with no spirit who seek it artifically - just like coke heads...it's the easy route to bliss - but it is not real - take away their pot and they are miserable. They are dependent on a substance to survive...it's not good...they should find a natural way to thrive spiritually - all they do is make crimminals rich and themselves weak...Nothing wrong with recreational use - but things have changed - It is now a daily medication for thousands..

This only shows your personal disdain for others who make different choices than you. It has nothing to do with the argument for changes to law.

But think about what else this story says- that 10 thousand gathered together to march and protest, and smoked their cannabis, yet no problems occurred. From the news reports not a single charge was laid, no one arrested. The benevolence of the drug and its users speaks for itself. Meanwhile, on any given Friday and Saturday night cops are very busy dealing with the boozers at bar fights, and the ones who beat their wives nd children under the influence of alcohol. There are people who have no soul. But that is seen as just a necessary evil that we accept, or we look to the individuals as who to blame, not questioning the substance.

Ever have a drink yourself? I know you have...

"May as well have big pharma drug them...I don't see the difference."

Pharmaceuticals are made in a laboratory, and many of them are lethal, dangerous. Many have been killed by chemically synthesized drugs. And there is big, big money involved in the creation and distribution of pharmaceuticals. And wherever there's big money, theres greedy people who seek to exploit the pubic by profiteering. Rich ones who have many things to do, all primarily to serve themselves. People who have no soul...

Edited May 3, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[benny]

This only shows your personal disdain for others who make different choices than you. It has nothing to do with the argument for changes to law.

No one obeys the law is certainly not an argument for changing it.

Edited May 3, 2009 by benny

[normanchateau]

Rio de Janeiro — Cesar Gavaria, Columbia's former president called upon leaders in Latin America to condemn the U.S. War on Drugs because it threatens the stability of many countries in the hemisphere.

Colombia was the first casualty in the drug wars. It's economy collapsed, unemployment reached 20%, 200 municipalities in the rural areas were "destroyed" and four million residents fled, along with jobs.

His passionate plea mentioned the fact that drug usage is a health issue, not a police matter. He said the Americans must recant, and abandon, their drug Prohibition policies and adopt European-style health care to deal with the problem.

"The U.S. has half a million people in jail for drug trafficking," said the former president. "Another 100,000 people who are in jail are there for offenses related to drugs. This is more people in American prisons than are in all the prisons in Europe."

The U.S. is spending US$40-billion a year on this plus its drug interdiction system and courts -- all to "keep drug consumption where it has been for years," he said.

"The U.S. should have a debate about this," said Gavaria. "The policy is a failure and the results are unbelievable."

Fortunately, President Barack Obama understands that past efforts have simply not worked. In 2004 at Northwestern University, before he was nominated, he told an audience that the War on Drugs was an "utter failure."

"We hope the U.S. understands that it has to change," said Gavaria.

Source: Diane Francis in The National Post

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f.../17/263933.aspx

[Oleg Bach]

I smoked put for 30 years - I saw the substance change and the attitude change...all chemicals are derived from nature - and the new cloned hybrid pot is a plant made so strong and toxic by crimminal growers who do not have your best interests at heart - I call it greed weed...as for today - I have no interest in that "feeling" I am all ready high because I developed as a human being...I guess I do show some distain for the slow poke pot heads...but - If I buffer my self with some gin...I am not above taking a draw or two --- The kids now - like to be stoned all day long - and they are not functioning at optimal level - when getting high interferes with you mission and dulls your talents you remove valuable human resourses from society....For instance when I get up and play with young musicians..who get stoned before they go on - I surpass them with inovative natural energy...I never take a drink before I perform - nor do I dull my performance with pot --------------------My point is - if you can do it without - IT'S BETTER. YOU ARE AT FULL CAPACITY WHEN YOU ARE WELL LOVED HYDRATED AND SOBER...THAT'S A FACT.

[Oleg Bach]

I smoked put for 30 years - I saw the substance change and the attitude change...all chemicals are derived from nature - and the new cloned hybrid pot is a plant made so strong and toxic by crimminal growers who do not have your best interests at heart - I call it greed weed...as for today - I have no interest in that "feeling" I am all ready high because I developed as a human being...I guess I do show some distain for the slow poke pot heads...but - If I buffer my self with some gin...I am not above taking a draw or two --- The kids now - like to be stoned all day long - and they are not functioning at optimal level - when getting high interferes with you mission and dulls your talents you remove valuable human resourses from society....For instance when I get up and play with young musicians..who get stoned before they go on - I surpass them with inovative natural energy...I never take a drink before I perform - nor do I dull my performance with pot --------------------My point is - if you can do it without - IT'S BETTER. YOU ARE AT FULL CAPACITY WHEN YOU ARE WELL LOVED HYDRATED AND SOBER...THAT'S A FACT.

[benny]

Rio de Janeiro — Cesar Gavaria, Columbia's former president called upon leaders in Latin America to condemn the U.S. War on Drugs because it threatens the stability of many countries in the hemisphere.

After marijuana, cocaine, what's next!?

[normanchateau]

Legalization lowered drug use in Portugal. Why would it have the opposite effect in Canada?

[benny]

Legalization lowered drug use in Portugal. Why would it have the opposite effect in Canada?

Because Canada is a relatively new country full of (foreign-born) unsettled persons.

[Sir Bandelot]

No one obeys the law is certainly not an argument for changing it.

The argument is not that no one obeys the law. The argument is that it is disproportionate to the threat that it represents, and that criminal charges should not be used where there is no great danger to society. My view of drug users, and I mean abusers, not users such as those who enjoy an occasional drink, is that this is a medical problem, not a criminal one. I would agree with decriminalization and court ordered treatment, as done sometimes with alcoholics.

Although, its only done if the alcoholic commits some OTHER crime, which is linked to their abuse. NOT, by purely by the excessive consumption of alcohol itself. You can drink yourself to death, no one will stop you.

Your comment about cocaine is ironic- I have read that in the US the courts are generally more lenient with cocaine addicts than they are with crack users or potheads. Cocaine being the far more expensive drug, already seems to be more tolerated in the courts. Ask yourself why that could be.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[benny]

The argument is not that no one obeys the law. The argument is that it is disproportionate to the threat that it represents, and that criminal charges should not be used where there is no great danger to society. My view of drug users, and I mean abusers, not users such as those who enjoy an occasional drink, is that this is a medical problem, not a criminal one. I would agree with decriminalization and court ordered treatment, as done sometimes with alcoholics.

Although, its only done if the alcoholic commits some OTHER crime, which is linked to their abuse. NOT, by purely by the excessive consumption of alcohol itself. You can drink yourself to death, no one will stop you.

Your comment about cocaine is ironic- I have read that in the US the courts are generally more lenient with cocaine addicts than they are with crack users or potheads. Cocaine being the far more expensive drug, already seems to be more tolerated in the courts. Ask yourself why that could be.

The problem is that we live in a society where men don't know how to ask for help until they find themselves before criminal courts.

[Sir Bandelot]

The problem is that we live in a society where men don't know how to ask for help until they find themselves before criminal courts.

The problem is we offer jail far more readily than we offer real meaningful help. Projects like Operation Insight, some of which run entirely without government funding are closed down by the government, while prisons continue to be built. Thats what the argument is really about- changing our priorities, where the money goes, to be able to offer real help.

[normanchateau]

Projects like Operation Insight, some of which run entirely without government funding are closed down by the government, while prisons continue to be built. Thats what the argument is really about- changing our priorities, where the money goes, to be able to offer real help.

Changing our priorities with respect to marijuana requires at a minimum, a change in government. Even then, there's no guarantee of success. Without a change in government, we are doomed to following Bush era drug policies.

Mexico had the courage to change their policies last week. Canada won't do it with the current government.

[benny]

The problem is we offer jail far more readily than we offer real meaningful help. Projects like Operation Insight, some of which run entirely without government funding are closed down by the government, while prisons continue to be built. Thats what the argument is really about- changing our priorities, where the money goes, to be able to offer real help.

The new facilities being built are more and more clinic-like, less and less prison-like.

[normanchateau]

Does anyone remember Gerald LeDain?

He created more stir in this country in his time than most would ever do. He was a Supreme Court of Canada justice and the author of what became known popularly as the LeDain Commission Report on the non-medical use of drugs in Canada. The report was published in 1972. In simple terms, it stated there was no evidence that the moderate use of moderate amounts of marijuana harmed anyone's health, was addictive, led to crime or to the use of more potent drugs. On the other hand, apart from the obvious and significant financial cost, the prohibition of the use of marijuana entailed extraordinary means of enforcement that has the potential of leading to corruption and brutality.

It suggested that enforcement costs might be better spent elsewhere. It urged the feds to repeal possession laws and let people grow their own supply for personal use. And guess what came of the report.... Nothing.

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/opi.../article/654295

[benny]

It suggested that enforcement costs might be better spent elsewhere. It urged the feds to repeal possession laws and let people grow their own supply for personal use. And guess what came of the report.... Nothing.

What comes out of cannabis since 1972 though is higher concentrations of THC.

[normanchateau]

What comes out of cannabis since 1972 though is higher concentrations of THC.

And of course the politicians of the 1970's had a crystal ball telling them that this would happen when they ignored the LeDain Report.

THC concentration has doubled since the 1970's. Despite that, marijuana use has declined in countries where marijuana possession is not a crime, e.g., Portugal.