capricorn Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Judging by my experience with psychotic people and their doctors I doubt if Li has any recollection whatsoever. I think the only thing that could torture him more than finding out what happened would be the absolute isolation and hatred he knows is out there. Recall he wanted to be killed afterwards. I can understand he feels isolated being locked up and having no family to visit him. But how would he know about hatred against him on the outside while he is in isolation and incarcerated? Maybe he wanted to be killed afterward because he remembers, partially or wholly, what he did. Unless he says so one way or another, I don't think we'll ever know. The fact there aren't enough counselors or enough treatment or doctors to treat mental illness and the effects mental illnes can have on society simply reflects the dismal pubic attitudes I mentioned. The stigma around mental illness is huge even among family members. I know a lady who has bipolar disorder and her husband told her for years that it's all in her head. She started living a productive life after they finally divorced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGreenthumb Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Of course they would but the reason for doing so would be to protect that person, not kill LiIf you want to kill criminals, reinstate capital punishment and be serious about it, don't expect some police officer to be your proxy executioner. Take some responsibility for it yourself. I actually agree with you there, I think that some people like this guy should either be executed or locked up with no chance of parole or ANY chance at ever getting out where they can go "crazy" again, or have another episode. Paul Bernardo same thing. I would support the death penalty in murder cases where guilt is proven beyond ANY doubt. As far as I'm concerned once someone has proven themselves capable of murder , they are too big a risk to be EVER allowed to walk amongst the citizens again. I would not accept death penalty as a mandatory sentence. There has to be some discretion and each case would have to be considered individually. I wouldn't really want the cops to go around executing suspects, but damn this guy was like Jason friggin Vorhees. So while i wouldn't want cops to routinely kill people without a trial, I seriously don't think anyone would have blamed or critisized the police if they had shot the psychopath. I feel bad for thinking that he should have been shot, but I can't help feeling that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I actually agree with you there, I think that some people like this guy should either be executed or locked up with no chance of parole or ANY chance at ever getting out where they can go "crazy" again, or have another episode. Paul Bernardo same thing. I would support the death penalty in murder cases where guilt is proven beyond ANY doubt. As far as I'm concerned once someone has proven themselves capable of murder , they are too big a risk to be EVER allowed to walk amongst the citizens again. I would not accept death penalty as a mandatory sentence. There has to be some discretion and each case would have to be considered individually.I wouldn't really want the cops to go around executing suspects, but damn this guy was like Jason friggin Vorhees. So while i wouldn't want cops to routinely kill people without a trial, I seriously don't think anyone would have blamed or critisized the police if they had shot the psychopath. I feel bad for thinking that he should have been shot, but I can't help feeling that way. As guyser said, had Li been more of a threat, there is a chance lethal force would have been authorized. Li was "contained and seperated" by him being alone on the bus. However he was seperated from them and everyone else and was only armed with a knife. Had he made a move with said knife, he would have been shot or tazed. I don't support the death penalty as it doesn't allow for appeals, and the whole slippery slope issue as to who gets it and who doesn't. That's a can of worms that should stay shut. However, Paul Bernardo has the deal called dangerous offender legislation. Chances are this guy gets sent to the nuthouse indefinetely. Karla Homolka got released based on plea bargaining and cooperation after 10 years, which in this case could also happen to Li. However, when someone commits 1st degree murder, I think pleading insanity should be tossed out the window. Only a certified nut would commit murder 1 anyway. As far as I'm concerned all murder 1 convicts are insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) I feel bad for thinking that he should have been shot, but I can't help feeling that way. Bullshit, you're not trying hard enough. Get a better grip on your feelings. I'd suggest you explore, deeply, the bad feeling you got when you thought about how he should have been shot. Its trying to tell you something. Edited March 5, 2009 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 However, when someone commits 1st degree murder, I think pleading insanity should be tossed out the window. Only a certified nut would commit murder 1 anyway. As far as I'm concerned all murder 1 convicts are insane. Only a sane person could premeditate on something to the extent you seem to be suggesting. People in a psychosis are just not caplable of the planning, arranging, plotting, reflecting, pondering, or deliberating that's usually assoicated with a person charged with 1st degree murder. Vincent Li is not some sort of criminally insane genius like Hannibal Lector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 In fact Vincent Li is not a criminal. Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsibleSource Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 "In Canada, the question here becomes treatment or punishment," she told a crowd of about 150 people. "Why not both? I believe that treatment and punishment should go hand-in-hand."Source I hope this poor woman regains her peace of mind in her world, she might find it down the road she's heading but I suspect it will be a far longer and harder journey. Perhaps the day will come when she'll be able to sit with Vincent Li. I think peace will only come with forgiveness and reconciliation probably for both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyStone Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 The trial of the guy who infamously decapitated a young man on a Greyhound bus last summer is currently taking place in Winnipeg. His defence, not surprisingly, is not guilty by reason of insanity. I find myself torn on this one. On the one hand, it would seem insane to ever again allow a person who committed such a crime to be free. But on the other hand, it appears that he was in the midst of a psychotic episode and, because of a purely medical condition, had completely lost touch with reality. It seems that he too might be considered a victim of these circumstances. So perhaps, with careful drug treatment and vigilant oversight, he could be somewhat cured. But I sympathize with the dead buy's mother and totally understand why she would never want to see him on the streets again. It's a tough problem that would have been nicely solved, I suppose, if, as many have suggested, the RCMP would have just shot him while he was defiling the body. Well, given that he decapitated another person for no reason, ate the eyeballs, and begged police to kill him - I think it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he would be found not guilty by reason of insanity. The real question is whether or not Li will be released into the public. 'Guilty' or not, given what he has done, he is clearly a danger to the public given his actions. I see no reason why this individual should be given his freedom anytime soon, not because he is a criminal, but simply because he is a danger to society, much like a bear that has become accustomed to eating from urban garbages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well, given that he decapitated another person for no reason, ate the eyeballs, and begged police to kill him - I think it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he would be found not guilty by reason of insanity. The real question is whether or not Li will be released into the public. 'Guilty' or not, given what he has done, he is clearly a danger to the public given his actions. I see no reason why this individual should be given his freedom anytime soon, not because he is a criminal, but simply because he is a danger to society, much like a bear that has become accustomed to eating from urban garbages. Its unlikely he'll ever be released into society. The only danger to society now are the sentiments to include punishment with his treatment. I really don't know what people expect, regular Tasering's, a beating now and then, waterboarding, who knows? In any case, Canada's mental institutions have not exactly been shining examples of societies humanity in the past and if the case of Ashley Smith is anything to go by the states approach towards the mentally ill is still largely rooted in the dark ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I think he should be released in Canada as soon as possible to demonstrate compassion and human rights for all the world to see. Let Canada lead by example and provide him with all the eyeballs he needs, government paid, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I think he should be released in Canada as soon as possible to demonstrate compassion and human rights for all the world to see. Let Canada lead by example and provide him with all the eyeballs he needs, government paid, of course. First send us Khdar who saved his own ass by blowing up a medic--- and have it called a war crime. Then we will do you a favour and send our private Grey Hound executioner down to help with the bail outs - may as well down size and start at the top.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Its unlikely he'll ever be released into society. Actually, the last person in Manitoba to be found not criminally responsible for a murder was a woman who put a broomstick through her four-year-old's head because she thought he was the reincarnation of Hitler. They determined that with appropriate medication she posed no threat, so she was never incarcerated. She was put in the care of her parents and today lives in a group home. I think the committee who will review Li would have no choice but to release him if there were evidence that administering a treatment program would cure his psychotic episodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 No way should they be re-leased. A very fine young woman that I know was repeatedly stabbed at a bus stop minding her own buisness..The assualter had done exaxctly this three years prior...he stabbed another young woman - he was some crazed Arab - that was confined to a metal health facility - and now he is back - they should NOT LET HIM OUT TO ATTEMPT TO DIS-EMBOWEL A THIRD TIME...all the medcation in the world will not stop this type of person from carrying out what he believes his mission to be - to kill woman that he percieves will bear children that he percieves will be a threat...From what I heard there was a letter written by this lunitic - something about Iran and their secret service....who the hell lets these people in? OR OUT for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I think the committee who will review Li would have no choice but to release him if there were evidence that administering a treatment program would cure his psychotic episodes. I doubt that. He will be held for many years, his actions so harmful they will be forefront when decisions are made. He will be able to be evaluated once a year, so if he is having a bad day....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I think the committee who will review Li would have no choice but to release him if there were evidence that administering a treatment program would cure his psychotic episodes. Let's hope not, it would take a very brave (and stupid) committee to take responsibility for that. Or am I just being stupid myself, thinking that anyone might actually take responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I'd rather have the RCMP act in regards to their safety and that of others. They seem to have shown some skill in apprehending the suspect without further loss of life. The RCMP did a very good job. It must have been horrendous for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 The horror the poor Mom lives everyday and now she has to sit through this trial is beyond what a parent should have to bare. It would have been so much kinder for all concerned if the RCMP had dispatched the killer at the scene. Then they would have been put on trial and hostile public opinion possibly turned to the police officers. They have a clear code of conduct and can't simply shoot anyone without just cause, even a criminal caught in the act, unless they are in immediate danger. It's how a democratic system works. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 If this monster who stuck his head out of the bus holding a head had been in China - or Russia or America etc.. law enforcement would have killed him immediately..that's what you do with someone licking up human blood with a hand full of wet hair and a head attatched. We watch movies like Silence of the Lambs and believe that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are brilliant and cunning psychotics, like Hannibal Lecter. Sometimes they are just psychotics, like the Toronto man who pushed the woman into an oncoming subway train. They need to be isolated, but I'm not sure they can really be cured. Mr. Li needs to spend the remainder of his life in hospital, not prison; and he didn't deserve to be shot just becaue he's metally ill. Would a sane person really commit such an act? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) We watch movies like Silence of the Lambs and believe that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are brilliant and cunning psychotics, like Hannibal Lecter. Sometimes they are just psychotics, like the Toronto man who pushed the woman into an oncoming subway train.They need to be isolated, but I'm not sure they can really be cured. Mr. Li needs to spend the remainder of his life in hospital, not prison; and he didn't deserve to be shot just becaue he's metally ill. Would a sane person really commit such an act? Who know's, seemingly sane people have proven capable of gassing, shooting and burying etc, insane people in the same chambers, ovens, mass graves etc as anyone else they loathed. Edited March 7, 2009 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Would a sane person really commit such an act? Of course.....it has been done by "sane persons" many times over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Of course.....it has been done by "sane persons" many times over. He could have been very clever and extremely deviate. He stabs the guy dozens of times. That give room for thought and contemplation - and perhaps a sic thrill or the satifying of lustful hate for his victim and what he belived he stood for. Who know what the guy was thinking - maybe after he stabbed the young man - he had some forthought...."If I cut of the f**** head - and put some blood on my mouth and display myself - I will get to go to the nut house...with a nice nurse and the soft rocking action of sedatives...He may have worked it out in his mind on how he could commit murder and be out in 5 years - all rested and ready to go - all is possible - "insantiy" should not be an out even if it was so - It's like saying - we find him innocent because he was evil and could not help being evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck U. Farlie Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 It is too bad that this gruesome act wasn't attempted somewhere in the USA. Then maybe this Tim fella would still be alive, and the world would be short one psychopath - no police (much too late) needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Of course.....it has been done by "sane persons" many times over. I agree. Extreme hatred towards self, others and society can make people do unimaginable things in a fit of rage. This guy apparently has said God told him to do this, but at the scene he admitted he was guilty and asked for the police to kill him. To me, the two stories don't match. If I'm truly insane and doing God's bidding, I wouldn't consider myself guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Then they would have been put on trial and hostile public opinion possibly turned to the police officers. They have a clear code of conduct and can't simply shoot anyone without just cause, even a criminal caught in the act, unless they are in immediate danger. It's how a democratic system works. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. I agree that the RCMP have clear direction in which to act, But he did not get his day in court, or his fair trail....and neither did the Mom, who's son is now dead.... If we do not have the facilities to treat these people for life, i mean locked up solid so there is no chance of sitting across from one on a bus.....then they should face the criminal system...if all we are going to do is give them a few meds and let them out , like suggested earlier with the women and the broom stick....it's not thier rights or protection i'm worried about, it's mine, my family, freinds, everyone else that uses public transit, this could have easily happened at 30,000 feet in an airplane.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 if all we are going to do is give them a few meds and let them out That most certainly won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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