Obama Keeps Gates as SecDef

[bush_cheney2004]

The parade of names for President Elect Obama's cabinet hardly seem like "change" at all, and in the case of Gates, the song remains exactly the same. As posted in a comment, maybe Obama meant he would change from his pre-election rhetoric!

Such a move, if confirmed, could also incite the Democratic left, which had based much of its support on Obama's slowly melting pledge to withdraw American combat troops within 16 months and start immediately.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington...ma-gates-1.html

[BC_chick]

I didn't realise by 'change' Obama was talking about defense secretaries.

[Sir Bandelot]

Strategically this is a very smart move to maintain continuity and troop support as the new administration settles in. This shows real wisdom is in the decision and non-partisanship. Gates seems to handle the role well. The larger question of troop withdrawl, tied to redeployment elsewhere can still be addressed.

[Shady]

Let's not forget about all the other "change!"

Hillary Clinton <-- Clinton Administration

Rahm Emanuel <-- Clinton Adminstration

Bill Richardson <-- Clinton Administration

Paul Volcker <-- Carter Administration

Eric Holder <-- Clinton Administration

Larry Summers <-- Clinton Administration

Tom Daschle <-- Clinton Administration

Robert Gates <-- Bush Administration

Yep. That's quite alot of change.

[BC_chick]

I'd prefer to see how he governs first before I actually decide if he has changed anything or not. The reactions on this thread are premature to say the least.

In any case, I'm still left wondering - if he didn't really change anything, and the last guy wasn't that bad according to you... shouldn't you be warming up to him right about now instead of continuing to resent him?

[bush_cheney2004]

Strategically this is a very smart move to maintain continuity and troop support as the new administration settles in. This shows real wisdom is in the decision and non-partisanship. Gates seems to handle the role well. The larger question of troop withdrawl, tied to redeployment elsewhere can still be addressed.

Oh sure, it is a brilliant decision to keep Gates on....after all he was the man who supported and executed the troop "surge" in Iraq, a policy that Obama strongly opposed.

As for Sec'y Gates' appointment, thank you for giving President Bush kudos.

[Sir Bandelot]

Oh sure, it is a brilliant decision to keep Gates on....after all he was the man who supported and executed the troop "surge" in Iraq, a policy that Obama strongly opposed.

As for Sec'y Gates' appointment, thank you for giving President Bush kudos.

You're quite welcome. And I'm glad that my kudos in this case, do amount to more than a piece of koon shit...

Did Mr. Gates have much of a political life before he was offered this position? Not sure but I think he was in the Auto industry from what I recall, some kind of business executive.

Well if someone does their job right, let them continue. There's plenty of time to change out Gates later anyway if that should become necessary.

I guess you could say, they will do whatever they want, regardless of whether you agree, or not... right?

[bush_cheney2004]

...In any case, I'm still left wondering - if he didn't really change anything, and the last guy wasn't that bad according to you... shouldn't you be warming up to him right about now instead of continuing to resent him?

Not sure what that means in the context of Canadians....Obama will have very little impact no matter what he does. In the US, the progressives are just scratching their heads over the lack of "real change", and as Shady points out, another dose of Clinton bit players.

More to the point, in just a few weeks, those "Bush bombs" become "Obama bombs". Looks like some folks in India already know this.

[Oleg Bach]

What did they expect? For Obama to alter the status quo or tune it up and improve it. Before his installment Obama fully relised that nothing is to change - that all must remain as is - and it will. BIG MISTAKE> You have to understand the simplicity of politicals - a Politic is a person highly trained in deception. The are by definition shrewd and crafty. Seeing all governments are run by lawyers - especially our governments - and lawyers by profession are highly skilled and accomplished liars - THAT IS THEIR JOB DESCRIPTION>.. So why is it anyone is surprised when they lie? Try saving a snake from a grass fire - You save it - it injects you with venom. You ask the sake why - and it replys "I am a snake - this is what I am born to do." You asked for a great mouth piece to represent you and you got it! What comes out of that mouth will be a lie...To you the citizen of America and the world....but of course tacit agreements will take place that will not be any of your buisness.

[bush_cheney2004]

You're quite welcome. And I'm glad that my kudos in this case, do amount to more than a piece of koon shit...

Coon shit notwithstanding, I think it just demonstrates reality meeting the fantasy of campaign rhetoric. Comparing McCain to Bush just doesn't have the same sting after this "appointment".

Did Mr. Gates have much of a political life before he was offered this position? Not sure but I think he was in the Auto industry from what I recall, some kind of business executive.

I think his tenure at the CIA, NSC, and Air Force may be more relevant to his current position.

Well if someone does their job right, let them continue. There's plenty of time to change out Gates later anyway if that should become necessary.

So Obama didn't think this through long before, as it was a wedge issue during the primary and general campaign? Now he is sleeping with (gasp) warmongers!

I guess you could say, they will do whatever they want, regardless of whether you agree, or not... right?

Correct....I am delighted at such a cynical outcome.

[Oleg Bach]

Coon shit notwithstanding, I think it just demonstrates reality meeting the fantasy of campaign rhetoric. Comparing McCain to Bush just doesn't have the same sting after this "appointment".

I think his tenure at the CIA, NSC, and Air Force may be more relevant to his current position.

So Obama didn't think this through long before, as it was a wedge issue during the primary and general campaign? Now he is sleeping with (gasp) warmongers!

Correct....I am delighted at such a cynical outcome.

I am delighted also with the outcome. It gives credibility to the laymens vision. It only took one statement from Obama during a debate to show exactly where he was going..eg..."we must be better perpared for the NEXT conflict" - buisness as per usual. If he was such an angelic boy messiah type he would have said..there will be no next conflict - but then he would never have been supported by the money boys if he was counter buisness. America is a nation born of war and will perish because of this crude and back ward way of attempting to maintain an economy for less than one tenth of a percent of the people...You can fool the people most of the time but not for every - and forever is here my dear friend...should I put in a good word for you up here..You may need some council?

[August1991]

The parade of names for President Elect Obama's cabinet hardly seem like "change" at all, and in the case of Gates, the song remains exactly the same.

Obama himself is change enough.

Wilfrid Laurier, Canada's first French-speaking, Catholic PM, was the sole French-speaking, Catholic around the cabinet table in 1896 - all the others were anglo WASPs.

As Laurier said at the time, I represent French Canada.

----

In practical political terms, Obama knows that he can go as far to the right as he wants and he won't lose his base. As Laurier also said (and I suspect Obama also knows - mutatis mutandis), "For us, sons of France, political sentiment is a passion; while, for the Englishmen, politics are a question of business."

[WIP]

Remember how all of these conservatives were crapping about how "radical" Barack HUSSEIN Obama was during the Campaign -- his preacher is a black radical -- "he's palling around with terrorists" according to pinhead Sarah Palin......so now they're complaining because he is careful and cautious, appointing a number of former Clinton advisers and even asking Bob Gates to stay on, and sparing traitor Joe Lieberman a date with the guillotine! He's certainly showing more bi-partisan leadership than Dubya ever did.......and that's why the conservatives are squawking so loud now!

[GostHacked]

Let's not forget about all the other "change!"

Hillary Clinton <-- Clinton Administration

Rahm Emanuel <-- Clinton Adminstration

Bill Richardson <-- Clinton Administration

Paul Volcker <-- Carter Administration

Eric Holder <-- Clinton Administration

Larry Summers <-- Clinton Administration

Tom Daschle <-- Clinton Administration

Robert Gates <-- Bush Administration

Yep. That's quite alot of change.

If you take into consideration when the Democrats held office before Clinton ....

[Shady]

In practical political terms, Obama knows that he can go as far to the right as he wants and he won't lose his base.

I disagree. He may not lose the entire base, but he could risk losing the energy and enthusiasm at the grass roots level, which helped his ground game in many battleground states.

Remember how all of these conservatives were crapping about how "radical" Barack HUSSEIN Obama was during the campaign

Well, he hasn't actually governed as President yet, so the jury's still out.

-- his preacher is a black radical -- "he's palling around with terrorists" according to pinhead Sarah Palin

One can't be a "pinhead" for telling the truth. His preacher is a anti-semitic, race-baiting, black liberation theologist. And he did pal around with terrorists, Bill Ayers and Rashid Khalidi to name a few.

He's certainly showing more bi-partisan leadership than Dubya ever did

Not true. Bush's "new tone in Washington" led to liberals influencing huge pieces of legislation. We'll see how much influence Republicans get at Obama's legislative table. So far, I admit, he's done a fairly good job with his appointments, other than two very questionable picks in John Podesta and Eric Holder.

[BC_chick]

Not sure what that means in the context of Canadians....Obama will have very little impact no matter what he does. In the US, the progressives are just scratching their heads over the lack of "real change", and as Shady points out, another dose of Clinton bit players.

More to the point, in just a few weeks, those "Bush bombs" become "Obama bombs". Looks like some folks in India already know this.

You may have interpreted Obama's 'change' as bringing in non-Clinton cabinet, but I interpreted 'change' as a shift in world views.... where America doesn't torture as policy, where America doesn't drop bombs first, ask questions last, where diplomacy matters as well as allies.

As for the context of Canadians, it means nothing.... this is the "United States Politics" section where we discuss US politics. Just like we discuss the rest of the world in you guessed it... 'The Rest of the World"

I do find it ironic though that you never ask people like Shady why they're so concerned about American politics, instead of just asking me and others who disagree with you.

Shady's interest in Obama is almost obsessive and definitely beyond healthy. You might wanna ask what the relevance of 'the Canadian context' is to him/her when s/he relentlessly bashes Obama...

[WIP]

One can't be a "pinhead" for telling the truth. His preacher is a anti-semitic, race-baiting, black liberation theologist. And he did pal around with terrorists, Bill Ayers and Rashid Khalidi to name a few.

Maybe in the sense that Sarah Palin would need a brain first, to qualify as a pinhead. How can she tell the "truth" when she couldn't even pronounce Rashid Khalidi's name in her attack rants? She was just reading what someone put in front of her, that likely originated with paranoid rightwing bloggers looking for Obama's Swiftboat.

Speaking of the black helicopter crowd, they offered nothing to show that Khalidi could be tied with terrorists; just accusations from people like Daniel Pipes, that he was palling around with terrorists, which are questionable when given scrutiny:Addressing an accusation that he had endorsed the killing of Israeli soldiers as legitimate “resistance” to occupation, he said: “Under international law, resistance to occupation is legitimate. I didn’t endorse killing Israeli soldiers. These people will take anything out of context. Anyone who knows me knows the last thing I am is extreme. I’ve called suicide bombings a war crime. I’m a ferocious critic of Arafat.”Rabbi J. Rolando Matalon of Congregation B’nai Jeshurun, a liberal synagogue on the Upper West Side, said he has known Mr. Khalidi for years and called the allegations “completely absurd and uncalled for and malicious.”

. So even at best, they could only accuse Obama of palling around with someone who's palling around with terrorists! Using that yardstick, how many terrorists is John McCain palling around with? He is still associated with crackpot Watergate burgler G. Gordon Liddy, a man with absolutely no respect for democratic principles and who was making plans to firebomb a Washington think tank, and assassinate a prominent journalist during the period that Bill Ayers was a member of the Weather Underground.

Even calling Bill Ayers a terrorist, is a misuse of the term, which we did not hear used 40 years ago to describe campus radicals and antiwar protesters. Today, terrorism connotes death and devastation as typified by the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, which will likely total 200 casualties -- and of course, every American links the word with 9/11, which is why deceitful Republican strategists chose it in the first place.

Going back through the record of events when the Weather Underground was active, I can't find any indication that anyone died at the hands of William Ayers - he did blow up a statue and participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972, as he noted in his 2001 book, Fugitive Days. Ayers writes: Although the bomb that rocked the Pentagon was itsy-bitsy - weighing close to two pounds - it caused 'tens of thousands of dollars' of damage. The operation cost under $500, and no one was killed or even hurt.[15] ...........even calling Bill Ayers a terrorist by today's standard is a ridiculous stretch! The F.L.Q. was a more dangerous terrorist group than Ayers and the other Weather Underground members were.

[bush_cheney2004]

You may have interpreted Obama's 'change' as bringing in non-Clinton cabinet, but I interpreted 'change' as a shift in world views.... where America doesn't torture as policy, where America doesn't drop bombs first, ask questions last, where diplomacy matters as well as allies.

No, it is far more pragmatic than that. Sec'y Gates, as an example, is clearly a link to the Bush Administration while Obama disparaged such an association in McCain's candidacy. Only a fool would think that American foreign policy will shift much, with or without the very un-original idea of diplomacy first. No change there.....

As for the context of Canadians, it means nothing.... this is the "United States Politics" section where we discuss US politics. Just like we discuss the rest of the world in you guessed it... 'The Rest of the World"

Then let's stick to that...instead of your judgements from the Land of Oz.

I do find it ironic though that you never ask people like Shady why they're so concerned about American politics, instead of just asking me and others who disagree with you.

We've already answered that question....boredom with domestic offerings in Canada.

Shady's interest in Obama is almost obsessive and definitely beyond healthy. You might wanna ask what the relevance of 'the Canadian context' is to him/her when s/he relentlessly bashes Obama...

I think it means he doesn't like Obama's potential for damage given his track record and associations, but he is open to being surprised. Members can post as they please, regardless of my partisan assaults. I'm not sure what your angle is....

[Moonlight Graham]

Gates will make a great scapegoat.

Dumb decision on this one, though he's certainly no Rumsfeld. I would have liked Colin Powell.

[Oleg Bach]

Gates will make a great scapegoat.

Dumb decision on this one, though he's certainly no Rumsfeld. I would have liked Colin Powell.

To bad they let Powell languish till he aged...America wasted a good man that would have been a great President and BLACK to with nice ears and a bigger head.

[bush_cheney2004]

To bad they let Powell languish till he aged...America wasted a good man that would have been a great President and BLACK to with nice ears and a bigger head.

No big deal...we can afford to do that while you guys put on a poor imitation of an Italian coalition government, with dubious talent all around.

[BubberMiley]

No big deal...we can afford to do that while you guys put on a poor imitation of an Italian coalition government, with dubious talent all around.

Better talent than the party you erroneously claim in your signature "won" the election. I guess the parliamentary system of government is a little too complicated for some to understand.

[bush_cheney2004]

Better talent than the party you erroneously claim in your signature "won" the election. I guess the parliamentary system of government is a little too complicated for some to understand.

.....or care about. But it is funny to watch all the flopping about.

Please tell us the odds for the GG calling another election instead....you know....from your crystal ball over at Intrade.com.

[Oleg Bach]

.....or care about. But it is funny to watch all the flopping about.

Please tell us the odds for the GG calling another election instead....you know....from your crystal ball over at Intrade.com.

Be gentle...and don't be cracking the crystal ball - some are dependant on spectrism///and the guessing game that is speculation Call another election and dump millions of bucks that are not worth the ink..and in the end the government will become what it was truely designed to be - ungrateful servants scratching their heads and wondering why they are not god....we don't need government - we just need ourselves the people...we are government.

[Moonlight Graham]

To bad they let Powell languish till he aged...America wasted a good man that would have been a great President and BLACK to with nice ears and a bigger head.

Powell never wanted to be President anyways. I believe his wife didn't approve of it (ie: his high chance of being assassinated).