Gun Crime and Violent Crime

[Moonbox]

Uh huh. It's all so simple, except that if you meet all their needs why should they work?

You want to increase everyone's wages? That will just increase inflation, so you'll have more money but everything will cost more.

but in this you're making the erroneous assumption that the people with increased minimum wage would be no better off because prices would increase. This is simply not the case. Yes, prices might increase slightly on goods and services pretty much throughout the entire country, but the vast majority of the increased cost would be passed on to those with high disposable incomes. Why? Because they're the ones spending most of the money.

If you doubled minimum wage (which I know is impossible), you wouldn't double the price of any goods.

This, as far as I have thought it through, would solve a great number of problems in our country all at once. First, it would even up the country's ENORMOUS income disparity. Second, it would reduce the need of various social services because people would not need to seek as much assistance on higher wages. Third, it provides a strong incentive to the people who should NOT be on welfare to get off their butts and work for a decent wage.

[blueblood]

but in this you're making the erroneous assumption that the people with increased minimum wage would be no better off because prices would increase. This is simply not the case. Yes, prices might increase slightly on goods and services pretty much throughout the entire country, but the vast majority of the increased cost would be passed on to those with high disposable incomes. Why? Because they're the ones spending most of the money.

If you doubled minimum wage (which I know is impossible), you wouldn't double the price of any goods.

This, as far as I have thought it through, would solve a great number of problems in our country all at once. First, it would even up the country's ENORMOUS income disparity. Second, it would reduce the need of various social services because people would not need to seek as much assistance on higher wages. Third, it provides a strong incentive to the people who should NOT be on welfare to get off their butts and work for a decent wage.

Umm have you checked out how expensive Alberta is to live in? Very few people there make minimum wage. Roll out to rural Manitoba and your dollar goes a lot further because the wages and costs are down. That's another reason why things are so much cheaper in the states.

The more money has, the more that person will spend, the more a person spends, the more demand for a product, more demand means prices increase.

Then there is the costs to businesses, that could potentially bust some or force others to relocate.

[Army Guy]

Kengs333

Or for that matter, should taxpayer money be used to support people who make a living by using gun violence posting disparaging remarks on Internet message boards--about gun violence, ironically enough--about their fellow citizens who are less fortunate?

Ya it is kind of Ironic that the topic of welfare and drug abuse is some how mixed into a topic on gun crime and violent crime. But now, because i make my living serving our nation and do so with many tools, one of which happens to be a rifle, that i'm not allowed to make a comment, on what effects our tax dollars and how they are spent...does everyone have these restrictions, or just the ones that might carry a gun to work.... As for the disparaging remarks, piont out which ones, and i will apologize to those people.

I have already stated that i agree that there are people who really need this assistance, and that is what the program is for...to assist until that situation improves...

What i won't apologize for is remarks about those that have abused the welfare system, or those that live off our dime because they won't or refuse to get a job for what ever reason....that sir, your going to have to live with....

[PoliticalCitizen]

I don't walk down dark alleys in poorer neighborhoods. So that really isn't a problem.

I prefer to live in a city where I, my wife and my kids can walk anywhere at any time of the day or night without fear.

Right now with the huge income disparity and growing segregation of the poor Toronto is becoming more and more like most big american cities where some areas you'd rather not be in EVER.

Even better, light the alleys or brick them up.

Light them up would only work until lightbulbs are busted (again).

Brick them up is the scenario portrayed in "Banlieue 13" (I think the English name of the movie is District B13).

Not a pretty world...

[Moonbox]

Umm have you checked out how expensive Alberta is to live in? Very few people there make minimum wage. Roll out to rural Manitoba and your dollar goes a lot further because the wages and costs are down. That's another reason why things are so much cheaper in the states.

I know that Alberta typically has the lowest poverty rates in the country.

The more money has, the more that person will spend, the more a person spends, the more demand for a product, more demand means prices increase.

No you need to take your basic economic theory one step further. More spending does indeed equal more demand, but more demand generally also means more production to meet this demand and therefore higher supply. Higher supply = lower prices so it heavily balances things out to some extent.

Alberta is unique to Canada and perhaps even the world as well in that the DEMAND for workers has increased so sharply over the last 15 years that pretty much nothing in the market could keep up. It had nothing to do with minimum wage laws and everything to do with the fact that people were moving to the province so fast that property demand and demand for everything else skyrocketed beyond what the province had previously been designed to sustain.

Then there is the costs to businesses, that could potentially bust some or force others to relocate.

Possibly but businesses paying $8-10 an hour that can't make profits in Canada don't exactly propel the economy forward anyways. We're witnessing right now a reversal of the Chinese outsourcing phenomenon too. Oil prices will bring jobs back to North America in droves.

Edited September 24, 2008 by Moonbox

[PoliticalCitizen]

I don't walk down dark alleys in poorer neighborhoods. So that really isn't a problem.

I prefer to live in a city where I, my wife and my kids can walk anywhere at any time of the day or night without fear.

Right now with the huge income disparity and growing segregation of the poor Toronto is becoming more and more like most big american cities where some areas you'd rather not be in EVER.

Even better, light the alleys or brick them up.

Light them up would only work until lightbulbs are busted (again).

Brick them up is the scenario portrayed in "Banlieue 13" (I think the English name of the movie is District B13).

Not a pretty world...

[capricorn]

I prefer to live in a city where I, my wife and my kids can walk anywhere at any time of the day or night without fear.

Me too. In many cities, citizens, including children are at risk of disease from coming into contact with drug paraphernalia discarded by drug addicts on our streets and in our parks.

In Nanaimo BC:

Weeks of worry continue for two Nanaimo parents who fear their toddler son may have been poked by a dirty needle.

Despite a six-foot-high fence that surrounds their Kennedy Street backyard, Hunter Vokins, 3, may have accidentally pricked himself with a dirty drug needle while playing outside.

Kevin and Candus Vokins don't know if their son actually picked up the needle, but they're not taking any chances after finding it earlier this year among Hunter's toys.

"Never in a million years (did I think) I'd have to be checking my yard for a dirty needle," said Kevin, who was shocked by the discovery.

---

The incident is a sobering reminder of the community's ongoing battle with drugs that has worsened in recent years.

Residents fed up with drug activity, nuisance properties and prostitution are battling back through a Block Watch program launched by longtime Haliburton Street residents Doug and Tanya Hiltz after the public drug death of Angel Campbell, 27, found on the street in July.

http://www.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/sto...60-9fad3a561086

In Ottawa:

A huge number of dirty drug needles and other paraphernalia are found daily on streets and in parks. Here's a site with actual pictures of what is found.

http://www.saferottawa.ca/html/photo_gallery.html

Two eight-year-old Ottawa girls must take drugs used to fight HIV after being pricked with a dirty needle.

Elizabeth Karabegovic and Jasmine Welsh were playing on the sidewalk in the city's west end two weeks ago when they found a syringe, said Elizabeth's mother, Eldina Bojo.

The children have since been tested for HIV but will have to wait a long time and take further tests to get reliable results, Bojo added.

The tests detect antibodies to HIV, but it can take up to six months for the antibodies to develop.

The children are also at risk of being infected with Hepatitis C.

"Because of that we need to go through a year of prayer and hoping that this is going to turn out right, that the kids won't turn out sick," Bojo said.

In the meantime, they must take antiretroviral drugs, which are believed to reduce the chance of being infected with HIV after exposure.

The girls found the syringe across the street from the Ottawa Community Housing building, where Bojo lives.

They thought it was a pen, so they picked it up and tried to write their names on their hands in order to test it out, pricking themselves in the process.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007...rls-071129.html

And what does the medical officer of health suggest?

But David Salisbury, the city's chief medical officer of health, said it's also up to parents to warn their kids not to play with shiny objects.

Shiny objects my ass. Is it any wonder the public is fed up with governments at all levels enabling and encouraging addicts with their "hug an addict" mentality and programs?

Edited September 24, 2008 by capricorn

[guyser]

I prefer to live in a city where I, my wife and my kids can walk anywhere at any time of the day or night without fear.

I do too, except there isnt a place anywhere on this continent....make that world where we can.

Right now with the huge income disparity and growing segregation of the poor Toronto is becoming more and more like most big american cities where some areas you'd rather not be in EVER.

Why look south? I would compare them to say oh Winnipeg, Regina, Vancouver Edmonton, Ottawa......

Cuz...you know where you are safer dont you?

[PoliticalCitizen]

I do too, except there isnt a place anywhere on this continent....make that world where we can.

Socialist / Communist / Police State countries are safe... but we probably don't want to become either one...

Cuba, for example, is extremely safe.

Why look south? I would compare them to say oh Winnipeg, Regina, Vancouver Edmonton, Ottawa......

Cuz...you know where you are safer dont you?

I lived in Montreal and Ottawa before I moved to GTA.

No city in Canada that I've seen has the desolate ugly violent districts where you're scared to even stop at the red light while driving... I've seen them in Chicago, LA, New Haven, Nigara Falls (USA)...

[blueblood]

I do too, except there isnt a place anywhere on this continent....make that world where we can.

Why look south? I would compare them to say oh Winnipeg, Regina, Vancouver Edmonton, Ottawa......

Cuz...you know where you are safer dont you?

Guyser, may I suggest you take a trip to small town Canada or the USA, you can walk around town at 3 in the morning and you have a better chance of being hit by lightning than getting mugged or stabbed.

[eyeball]

Guyser, may I suggest you take a trip to small town Canada or the USA, you can walk around town at 3 in the morning and you have a better chance of being hit by lightning than getting mugged or stabbed.

I'll never forget the time my brother from Toronto was walking with my wife and I down our dark rural road one night. He'd seen a bear earlier in the day and was quite nervous. He didn't feel much better better after I commented we have the highest incidence of cougar attacks anywhere in North America. My wife said she'd feel the same way if she was walking around at night in Toronto and my brother said he usually doesn't give it a seconds thought.

Fear really is the mind-killer.

[guyser]

Guyser, may I suggest you take a trip to small town Canada or the USA, you can walk around town at 3 in the morning and you have a better chance of being hit by lightning than getting mugged or stabbed.

I know that. But he said city....

I walk around my cottage town without fear, and Huntsville too...but they are not cities in any respect.

[guyser]

He didn't feel much better better after I commented we have the highest incidence of cougar attacks anywhere in North America.

Ive been attacked by a cougar. Left me spent and drained , but happy.

Your bro was worried his wife would meet the cougar he was goofing around with.

[blueblood]

I'll never forget the time my brother from Toronto was walking with my wife and I down our dark rural road one night. He'd seen a bear earlier in the day and was quite nervous. He didn't feel much better better after I commented we have the highest incidence of cougar attacks anywhere in North America. My wife said she'd feel the same way if she was walking around at night in Toronto and my brother said he usually doesn't give it a seconds thought.

Fear really is the mind-killer.

I had a bear take a run at me, and a good thing for me was that he was bluffing, i don't know if the old axe would have done much. Needless to say, those things get shot on sight when on my land.

We don't have any cougars in the sticks, but there is the odd sighting of some extremely large and mean cats. Still would have to worry about getting eaten alive though...

[Argus]

I prefer to live in a city where I, my wife and my kids can walk anywhere at any time of the day or night without fear.

Right now with the huge income disparity and growing segregation of the poor Toronto is becoming more and more like most big american cities where some areas you'd rather not be in EVER.

Lots of income disparity in Japan, but teenage girls can wander around downtown in the early morning hours with little fear as there's very little crime in their capitalist cities.

Poor Canadians have more money and better houses than middle class Russians.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Lots of income disparity in Japan, but teenage girls can wander around downtown in the early morning hours with little fear as there's very little crime in their capitalist cities.

Poor Canadians have more money and better houses than middle class Russians.

USSR was a good example of low crime - people had no guns, no money to be robbed of and not too much freedom. Drug abuse and prostitution where almost non-existent. Welfare was unnecessary as everyone was guaranteed a job and went to prison if not working for more than 3 months.

But this is not what I'm talking about here. There's the Denmark / Holland / Belgium model where the governments have found that giving more money to the poor, enough for them to have a good place to live, good food and a car is actually CHEAPER than maintaining a large police force and many prisons.

That's what I'm talking about.

[blueblood]

USSR was a good example of low crime - people had no guns, no money to be robbed of and not too much freedom. Drug abuse and prostitution where almost non-existent. Welfare was unnecessary as everyone was guaranteed a job and went to prison if not working for more than 3 months.

But this is not what I'm talking about here. There's the Denmark / Holland / Belgium model where the governments have found that giving more money to the poor, enough for them to have a good place to live, good food and a car is actually CHEAPER than maintaining a large police force and many prisons.

That's what I'm talking about.

Small town Canada is cheapest of all, no handouts to the poor and only 4 cops in 50 square kilometres and no crime. Those fancy pants Europeans can learn something from us we have the cheapest crime control of all!!!

[Smallc]

Lots of income disparity in Japan

According to a school text I was just reading the other day, there is less income disparity in Japan than almost any other developed naton.

[bush_cheney2004]

USSR was a good example of low crime - people had no guns, no money to be robbed of and not too much freedom. Drug abuse and prostitution where almost non-existent. Welfare was unnecessary as everyone was guaranteed a job and went to prison if not working for more than 3 months.

I guess you don't consider chronic alcoholism as drug abuse. Please pass the cheap vodka!

[PoliticalCitizen]

I guess you don't consider chronic alcoholism as drug abuse. Please pass the cheap vodka!

Alcoholics were treated forcibly and then labored in rehabilitaiton camps.

Sometimes I feel like that's really needed here

[Bryan]

I do too, except there isnt a place anywhere on this continent....make that world where we can.

Why look south? I would compare them to say oh Winnipeg, Regina, Vancouver Edmonton, Ottawa......

Cuz...you know where you are safer dont you?

Can't speak to what the other places on your list are like at night, but I have a pretty good view of how Winnipeg is.

I work nights. I bicycle to work. My 30 minute ride to work takes me right through the middle of what is our "worst" areas (down north Main St, and right through the residential North End). I've never worried one bit about my safety, and no-one has ever hassled me in any way in over 10 years. The people who get into trouble in these areas (the ones who are inflating our violent crime stats) are doing these things to themselves. Drunken fights, drug deals, gang against gang, etc. They don't care about some guy passing by on a bike.

[Smallc]

Can't speak to what the other places on your list are like at night, but I have a pretty good view of how Winnipeg is.

I work nights. I bicycle to work. My 30 minute ride to work takes me right through the middle of what is our "worst" areas (down north Main St, and right through the residential North End). I've never worried one bit about my safety, and no-one has ever hassled me in any way in over 10 years. The people who get into trouble in these areas (the ones who are inflating our violent crime stats) are doing these things to themselves. Drunken fights, drug deals, gang against gang, etc. They don't care about some guy passing by on a bike.

What CBC did last night in their portrayal of Winnipeg was simply disgusting. They made it look like Goniaves or something. That's one of the first times that I have ever been angry with the CBC.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Can't speak to what the other places on your list are like at night, but I have a pretty good view of how Winnipeg is.

I work nights. I bicycle to work. My 30 minute ride to work takes me right through the middle of what is our "worst" areas (down north Main St, and right through the residential North End). I've never worried one bit about my safety, and no-one has ever hassled me in any way in over 10 years. The people who get into trouble in these areas (the ones who are inflating our violent crime stats) are doing these things to themselves. Drunken fights, drug deals, gang against gang, etc. They don't care about some guy passing by on a bike.

So then your city is a good example of how Canadian semi-socialism works.

What is important that we do not forget how we achieved this state of affairs and keep improving the well-being of the lowest classes.

[eyeball]

delete

Edited September 27, 2008 by eyeball

[Mr.Canada]

Yep, more jails and tougher sentences. I'd also like to see the death penalty returned but that most likely won't happen.

It is obvious that giving convicted murderers grief counseling and sending them home isn't working.