Oleg Bach Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 It was a military decision, and given our equipment situation the correct one. Had past governments (Tory & Lib) as well as piss poor military leadership in days gone by, been better, we would not be in this situation. Nice to hear from you jdobb. "piss poor military leadership" - what do you expect when the only people who enlist and become generals are the sons labourers. Was different under the old British system where military leaders were of the upper and more intelligent class - much like you fine gentlemen. Seems the Americans had the same leadership void in the military - as did that Stalin - most don't want intelligent military leaders - by regretably settle for the less intelligent and more compliant types - in the states from the Clintons to Cheney.. they resent the military because they are the sons and daughters of plumber - my dear god - how could we possibly trust the children of the help to wage war" ....You have to respect your military and make it attractive to those of good and noble breeding - it's not supposed to be a bums job where you can go for "a free education and see the world" - was a time when being a soldier was a respectable profession. Seems the smart people don't enlist and the smart people don't want to run for public office - mabye the back room boys should go public - but that would be like getting a real job and provide real service and be a real person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponeer Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) "piss poor military leadership" - what do you expect when the only people who enlist and become generals are the sons labourers. Was different under the old British system where military leaders were of the upper and more intelligent class - much like you fine gentlemen. Seems the Americans had the same leadership void in the military - as did that Stalin - most don't want intelligent military leaders - by regretably settle for the less intelligent and more compliant types - in the states from the Clintons to Cheney.. they resent the military because they are the sons and daughters of plumber - my dear god - how could we possibly trust the children of the help to wage war" ....You have to respect your military and make it attractive to those of good and noble breeding - it's not supposed to be a bums job where you can go for "a free education and see the world" - was a time when being a soldier was a respectable profession. Seems the smart people don't enlist and the smart people don't want to run for public office - mabye the back room boys should go public - but that would be like getting a real job and provide real service and be a real person. Maybe you should get at least half a clue before you comment!! Edited January 10, 2008 by weaponeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Maybe you should get at least half a clue before you comment!! I really thought I could get by on a quarter of a clue - half a clue would mean I would have to do some reading - which means you would have to be a real interesting writer in order that I commit my fleeting attention....even if I hit the mark partially - and there is one percent of something useful and someone grabs that thought and utiltizies it - then I have been helpful - cool the ego - and get some humor - say something to amuse me...we may even develope a dialogue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Oleg Bach: You really have an axe to grind with our nations military, always with a sly remark or comment. So tell us Oleg what is it that bothers you so much about the military... Is it that you've grown up with a silver spoon stuck in your month and daddy would'nt let you play with the commoners, or is it you did not have what it took to be a soldier, and was forced to work with daddy in his corporation, while secretively playing with your tin soldiers with the corner office door closed.... Or maybe your just one of us, a son of a labourer, a uneducated commoner, who for what ever reason was not excepted into our elite club now you hate the very instution that you so wanted to be a part of. Do we need to call for a group hug, or maybe we can move onto to slamming another one of your carear choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Ironically AG, he has been on here and stated that he is on welfare, evaded taxes and got caught and is mad because his welfare is so low. He is a leach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Oleg Bach:You really have an axe to grind with our nations military, always with a sly remark or comment. So tell us Oleg what is it that bothers you so much about the military... Is it that you've grown up with a silver spoon stuck in your month and daddy would'nt let you play with the commoners, or is it you did not have what it took to be a soldier, and was forced to work with daddy in his corporation, while secretively playing with your tin soldiers with the corner office door closed.... Or maybe your just one of us, a son of a labourer, a uneducated commoner, who for what ever reason was not excepted into our elite club now you hate the very instution that you so wanted to be a part of. Do we need to call for a group hug, or maybe we can move onto to slamming another one of your carear choices. Let me explain. My father was an honour guard for Stalin. He dispised the man - half of his family were jailed and his father was shot for non-compliance. He also was a propogandist that against his true will indoctrinated young Red Army soldiers - also during the occupation of Paris - He wore a Nazi uniform and was in charge of about 300 sons of Russian aristocrats that wore the Nazi uniform with a promise if the Nazis over took the soviets that they would get their lands back. Needless to say .... he knew they were lieing..He instructed a young Russian soldier who wore the Nazi uniform to kill a German soldier that repeatedly insulted him by smacking his face - the Russian was slapped and as suggested kill the Nazi officer - Dad was held up in the Grand Hotel in Paris and the Germans sent a group to pick him up for questioning - My father new they were coming and prepared himself - they took him to command head quarters - from what I gathered from his old friends after my fathers death - was that he killed every officer in the room and managed to shed the uniform and left - also it was said by a 90 year old friend of the family that he was also involved in an un-documented assassination attempt on Hitler. He did time in prison camps - he also managed to hide in Berlin during the last bombing and came to England with my mother - she was 15 when they met - he was 33....the point I am making is from what my father explained to me was that there are no good guys in war - all sides including the very rude and drunken Americans were poorly behaved - I have great respect for a soldiers - my dad was the top of the line - During the Red Army games - my dad place second in a number of events - he was the poster boy during the early May Day parades - He dispised communism and socialism. I grew up on the poor side of the tracks in a rural neighbourhood near Aurora Ontario - my mother was a buisness woman and my father was a carpenter - there was great culture in our family -all my dads friends were artists - priests and musicians - and SOLDIERS - Boris and Simon acted as secretaries and interpreters for American generals . His other friends were very smart people - we had dinner parties and there were stern Christians - atheists - jews - and a variety of others - no one mention the differences - they all had class. What gives you the impression that I am of the silver spoon set is probably that I am fixated with the past to some degree - as a young man I was to marry the daughter of a conservative senator - both or our fathers died at around the same time - Her father was the man that spawned people like Conrad Black - having observed this class for a few years and being rejected by them - caused a scar or two - I am an artist and musician - I spent 18 years in the film buisness assisting the American producers with my energy - never paid taxes - because I never really made enough - I raised my four childern with the meager and sporatic wages granted to me by the Americans producing movies in Canada during the 70s and 80s - and early 90s - now I am broke - but not bitter.... Lets make it clear - I love the military - but do not appreciate those of privledge abusing our men or wasting even one life. At present I am unemployable - I have no formal credentials - when I aloped with the heiress - my path deviated - I did not attend art school and university as planned - I am self taught and am not institutionalized as some - because of my past - I know the gutter and have seen those that inhabit the board room - the top and the bottom - I am not impressed with your classic CEO any more than I am with a welfare receipent. Don't get my wrong - I want to contribute to the nation - but am still an outsider and rejected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Really Oleg - who cares? This is a political posting site, not a biography site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Really Oleg - who cares?This is a political posting site, not a biography site. Perhaps you lack care - there are others here that do care. What I posted is the core of politics, maybe you want to marginalize my contribution but there are others that will gain from what I have written - why are you an edcuated my so intense about creating contention...maybe you need to post your biography so we will know who you are and why and how you developed to be the person you are - Your retort is haughty and smacks of arrognace - as if you are my superiour and as if politics is a competative sport - you are not a contributor to the common good - maybe your type is what is wrong with the nation. Sorry - I attempt to be sincere and you spit on me - why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 ....the point I am making is from what my father explained to me was that there are no good guys in war - all sides including the very rude and drunken Americans were poorly behaved - I have great respect for a soldiers - my dad was the top of the line - During the Red Army games - my dad place second in a number of events - he was the poster boy during the early May Day parades - He dispised communism and socialism. So your basing your opinions on what happen 50 plus years ago, and mostly on 2 armies that commited some of histories worst crimes again'st humanity. To say that there was no good guys in war is a blanket statement...and not fair to those that did or have conducted themselfs in an honorable fashion...One has to remember what it is we ask our soldiers to do on our nations behalf...we ask them to step into hell, to live there until one nation gives up...and while we expect them to conduct themselfs as professionally as possiable... which means abiding by the conventions, moral values of our own nation at the time. If being rude and drunken and behaving poorly are considered in your oinion to be bad then perhaps your right thier is no good guys...Canadians had a well know reputation during both wars for these very facts...OK perhaps not rude...but drunken and behaving poorly was diffinently a Canadian trait and yet on the field of battle they are second to none... This is not the case with todays Canadian military, Yes we have a few indiv's that do not conform , but as a whole were are professional soldiers and considered some of the worlds best....It is here i take offensive to some of your remarks , not only defending my reputation but that of alot of good soldiers past and present.... Don't get my wrong - I want to contribute to the nation - but am still an outsider and rejected. Everyones opinion is valued, the trick is to express your opinion without attacking anothers beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 So your basing your opinions on what happen 50 plus years ago, and mostly on 2 armies that commited some of histories worst crimes again'st humanity. To say that there was no good guys in war is a blanket statement...and not fair to those that did or have conducted themselfs in an honorable fashion...One has to remember what it is we ask our soldiers to do on our nations behalf...we ask them to step into hell, to live there until one nation gives up...and while we expect them to conduct themselfs as professionally as possiable... which means abiding by the conventions, moral values of our own nation at the time. If being rude and drunken and behaving poorly are considered in your oinion to be bad then perhaps your right thier is no good guys...Canadians had a well know reputation during both wars for these very facts...OK perhaps not rude...but drunken and behaving poorly was diffinently a Canadian trait and yet on the field of battle they are second to none... This is not the case with todays Canadian military, Yes we have a few indiv's that do not conform , but as a whole were are professional soldiers and considered some of the worlds best....It is here i take offensive to some of your remarks , not only defending my reputation but that of alot of good soldiers past and present.... Everyones opinion is valued, the trick is to express your opinion without attacking anothers beliefs. I think what turned me off was a guy I worked with in the movie buisness.. He was Canadian military and decieded to work in eastern Eurpope as a mercinary..by the time he got back he was twice as nuts as he was prior - describing how much a head he got and how his Serbian buddies to glee in the mayhem - Then there was a sargent that I knew who also worked on occassion in the movie buisness - he was rock solid and a loyal friend....then from my childhood there was Ron - he really advanced to the top in the army - really unlikely to succeed - but the military brought out the best in this man from a very poor background - he is educated and now semi-retired...a very intelligent fellow. The rank and file - that was sometimes use in battle scenes - for instance in the CBC filming of Dieppe - they were a noble bunch also...loyal to each other. There was a very very gay hair person on set - some of the civilians hired for the shoot started to persecute this good natured fellow - I remember how a few soldiers stepped forward in his defence and it was cute....quote "He may be a f*g but he is OUR f*g" - It showed that these young soldiers were not stupifed and were toleratant and honourable....just like to re-interate - I do not have any quams about military - like I said before - I get real preturbed when I see someone like Cheney waste a bunch of good men and woman uselessly and does not really appreciate the "sacrafice" - My communications with American soldiers via computer - has always been supportive and respectful - Even their intelligence guys are trusting once they get to know you...but that is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Mini Surge Coming to Afghanistan as 3000 Marines may deploy. Defense officials aren't calling it a surge, but it sure looks like one. The Pentagon is poised to send more than 3,000 additional troops to Afghanistan -- all of them Marines, ABC News learned Wednesday. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=4114291&page=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Mini Surge Coming to Afghanistan as 3000 Marines may deploy. I heard that this morning on the way to work. There is a real fear that a Taliban offensive this spring has to be countered head on. It hasn't gone unnoticed that NATO has had to retake land that they had driven Taliban out of each spring and summer. If Bush in his last year and a new president can commit to a real plan for this forgotten war, it might actually take some of the load off of Canada's soldiers on the frontline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 If Bush in his last year and a new president can commit to a real plan for this forgotten war, it might actually take some of the load off of Canada's soldiers on the frontline. Doesn't Canada have a plan? How about NATO. There are only 27,000 US troops in A-stan already.....Canada has 2,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Doesn't Canada have a plan? How about NATO. There are only 27,000 US troops in A-stan already.....Canada has 2,500. Aren't most of them north, east and west and not many in the south were the fighting is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Reuters Saturday, January 5, 2008; 5:19 AM KABUL - Afghanistan's Islamic council has told President Hamid Karzai to stop foreign aid groups from converting locals to Christianity and also demanded the reintroduction of public executions. Strict interpretations of Islam as practiced in Afghanistan treat conversions as apostasy, which is punishable by death. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...id=sec-religion What a shame that in 2008, Canadian soldiers continue to risk their lives to protect an apparent theocracy which deems it legal constitutionally to execute those who choose to convert to Christianity. As Article 3 of the current constitution of Afghanistan clearly states: "Article 3 [Law and Religion] In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 ReutersSaturday, January 5, 2008; 5:19 AM KABUL - Afghanistan's Islamic council has told President Hamid Karzai to stop foreign aid groups from converting locals to Christianity and also demanded the reintroduction of public executions. Strict interpretations of Islam as practiced in Afghanistan treat conversions as apostasy, which is punishable by death. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...id=sec-religion What a shame that in 2008, Canadian soldiers continue to risk their lives to protect an apparent theocracy which deems it legal constitutionally to execute those who choose to convert to Christianity. As Article 3 of the current constitution of Afghanistan clearly states: "Article 3 [Law and Religion] In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam." They aren't there fighting for the rights of missionaries, they are fighting for afghan democracy. If the afghans want thos law, that's their business , not ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 If the afghans want thos law, that's their business , not ours. In other words you're saying converts to Christianity should be executed if that's what Afghans want. Do Canadians have the right to question such laws or should we support apparent theocracies as long as they're democratically elected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Aren't most of them north, east and west and not many in the south were the fighting is? Oh sure....the 27,000 US troops are just relaxing while Canada does all the work in the south. Damn lazy 'merkins still managed to be 70% of the KIAs in 'Afganerstan..amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Oh sure....the 27,000 US troops are just relaxing while Canada does all the work in the south. Damn lazy 'merkins still managed to be 70% of the KIAs in 'Afganerstan..amazing. You guys should just buy some tin soldiers and a few Conrad Black "novels". You still don't get it - look at the landscape in Afgahanistan. Could anything that sprouts from this place actually be a threat? The hysterical knee jerk reaction of spoiled corporate white boys - who fear any male that acts like an ancient traditional male....should just shut up - If you want a war - go to the bad part of town and insult an aging biker type in the local beer hall - Then get back to me - if you still can...It's an armchair war. Totally artifical..not to mention that opium production has increased since Canada got in there - which means this is not legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 In other words you're saying converts to Christianity should be executed if that's what Afghans want. Do Canadians have the right to question such laws or should we support apparent theocracies as long as they're democratically elected? We have the right to question those laws...I don't think we have the moral right to use our troops as blackmail for them o undemocratically change their laws. Democratic nations often vote for stupid laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 We have the right to question those laws...I don't think we have the moral right to use our troops as blackmail for them o undemocratically change their laws. Is there some point at which we have the right to decide that their laws are sufficiently morally reprehensible that they no longer justify the sacrifice of Canadian lives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Is there some point at which we have the right to decide that their laws are sufficiently morally reprehensible that they no longer justify the sacrifice of Canadian lives? Sure. Human sacrifice comes to mind. What's more important, worry about someone who wants to become a maartyr for christ or a nation that copuld one day become again a nation that trains terrorist martys for al lah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 On the other hand, we could could put locking doors on airliners. O wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Sure. Human sacrifice comes to mind. Good, at least you agree that there is some point at which sacrificing Canadian lives for a country whose constitution permits murdering its citizens for religious reasons may not be appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) Dion travels to Afghanistan. http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/01/12/a...istan-dion.html Canada should consider non-combat roles for its troops in Afghanistan once their current mandate expires in 13 months, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion said during a visit to Kabul on Saturday.Dion was reiterating a stance he's taken since last summer as he and his deputy leader, Michael Ignatieff, met with Afghan President Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan's capital. A statement issued by the Liberal party quoted Dion and Ignatieff as telling Karzai that the party believes Canada's combat role should end when the mandate in Kandahar province expires in February 2009. "The Liberal Party of Canada is very proud of the contributions our men and women in uniform have made to try to bring peace and stability to this region," Dion said. The party still supports diplomatic and development efforts, as well as a possible continued military presence in the country, he added. The position differs from the NDP who simply want to pull out. I have no idea what the BQ position. Edited January 12, 2008 by jdobbin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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