Afghanistan

[eyeball]

So let me get this straight, we're stuck in a quagmire over there so we can avoid one here? Okay. And you folks are quite certain this is only costing us 2 cents out of every tax dollar?

By the way, I still haven't seen any Islamofacists coming up the driveway. I get a couple of JW's from time to time but no sword-wielding maniacs to report yet.

[jbg]

So let me get this straight, we're stuck in a quagmire over there so we can avoid one here? Okay. And you folks are quite certain this is only costing us 2 cents out of every tax dollar? By the way, I still haven't seen any Islamofacists coming up the driveway. I get a couple of JW's from time to time but no sword-wielding maniacs to report yet.

The reason for the worry about medieval Islamofascist thugs is that they are willing to engage in virtually unlimited levels of savagery against the West and each other. The answer is I'd much rather fight them there than here. If it's us or them, I choose us.

[eyeball]

The reason for the worry about medieval Islamofascist thugs is that they are willing to engage in virtually unlimited levels of savagery against the West and each other. The answer is I'd much rather fight them there than here. If it's us or them, I choose us.

You just can't connect these dots can you? The military quagmire we're in over there is backing up and bubbling up through the sewers under Parliament Hill over here and we're becoming a more divided country as a result. I'd rather we get on with the business of fixing our plumbing and modernizing our own democracy than trying to build one for a society that wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

If we weren't presenting another target for them they'd just go back to fighting amongst themselves. Its not us or them. That's just plain nonsense from the mouth of a frightened little chimp.

[bush_cheney2004]

...If we weren't presenting another target for them they'd just go back to fighting amongst themselves. Its not us or them. That's just plain nonsense from the mouth of a frightened little chimp.

Of course it is...how the hell do you think you got a Parliament Hill to stink up in the first place...and there wasn't a chimp to be found anywhere in sight.

Edited January 27, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[jbg]

If we weren't presenting another target for them they'd just go back to fighting amongst themselves. Its not us or them.

What Northern Alliance type were they aiming at on September 11, 2001?

That's just plain nonsense from the mouth of a frightened little chimp.

Do you think you're amusing or profound in your sophomoric attack on our President?

[eyeball]

So now our having a Parliament in the first place had something to do with our ancestors relationship with Afghanistan, exactly how does that scan? And here I thought it had something to do with confederation. I just can't imagine what Manley thinks Harper could possibly say or do that might clear up any confusion about our reasons for interfering in Afghanistan's affairs.

"Them or us" is sophomoric nonsense and I know I probably shouldn't disparage chimps the way I did, I'm sorry.

"They" were retaliating against America's ongoing policy of economic and military imperialism and support of dictators in the ME. There wasn't a single report of any Afghanis amongst them when we decided to wade into this swamp. We owe Afghanistan an apology.

[bush_cheney2004]

So now our having a Parliament in the first place had something to do with our ancestors relationship with Afghanistan, exactly how does that scan? And here I thought it had something to do with confederation. I just can't imagine what Manley thinks Harper could possibly say or do that might clear up any confusion about our reasons for interfering in Afghanistan's affairs.

Don't shine me on...you know exactly what I'm talking about in complete historical context. Afghanistan isn't the first time that Parliament Hill went shopping on this and other continents. Tell your Queen that payback is a bitch!

[eyeball]

Is this supposed to be a riddle? I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about.

[bush_cheney2004]

Is this supposed to be a riddle? I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about.

Of course you don't....the Us vs. Them game only starts when convenient for what you choose to remember or understand. Your "Empire" was complicit in baking this turd pie....stick around and help finish eating it!

[Guest American Woman]

"Them or us" is sophomoric nonsense [...]

To me "them or us" is a horrible line of thought. It implies that it's a good thing that other innocent people are getting killed by the thousands and thousands so we are less likely to lose people in another attack. How anyone can think that way is beyond me. After all, these people are as innocent as the people who were killed on 9-11, et al., and of course we expect the whole world to mourn those losses. That's one of the most troubling things about all this to me-- that so many people are putting so little value on those lives, those deaths. It's really upsetting.

"They" were retaliating against America's ongoing policy of economic and military imperialism and support of dictators in the ME. There wasn't a single report of any Afghanis amongst them when we decided to wade into this swamp. We owe Afghanistan an apology.

I agree with you here, but it's more than America's policy. There have been other terrorist targets, so it's the 'western world' that's being rallied against. While the U.S. may have been the one with the most economic and military imperialism, other countries were benefitting by our benefitting from it-- and doing so willingly, with eyes wide open, because they wanted those benefits.

[eyeball]

Of course you don't....the Us vs. Them game only starts when convenient for what you choose to remember or understand. Your "Empire" was complicit in baking this turd pie....stick around and help finish eating it!

I see what you're getting at. You're right, there is no doubt we have been complicit in crimes against humanity and we should stop doing that. We probably owe more than just Afghanistan an apology. Perhaps we could also make amends by writing off any debts these country's may owe us.

We could also get between them and the US and tell the US enough is enough. Its time you changed your ways.

[bush_cheney2004]

I see what you're getting at. You're right, there is no doubt we have been complicit in crimes against humanity and we should stop doing that. We probably owe more than just Afghanistan an apology. Perhaps we could also make amends by writing off any debts these country's may owe us.

We could also get between them and the US and tell the US enough is enough. Its time you changed your ways.

But you won't, because even though your Empire started it, the US may sure as hell finish it. God Save the Queen.

[eyeball]

To me "them or us" is a horrible line of thought. It implies that it's a good thing that other innocent people are getting killed by the thousands and thousands so we are less likely to lose people in another attack. How anyone can think that way is beyond me. After all, these people are as innocent as the people who were killed on 9-11, et al., and of course we expect the whole world to mourn those losses. That's one of the most troubling things about all this to me-- that so many people are putting so little value on those lives, those deaths. It's really upsetting.

I agree with you here, but it's more than America's policy. There have been other terrorist targets, so it's the 'western world' that's being rallied against. While the U.S. may have been the one with the most economic and military imperialism, other countries were benefitting by our benefitting from it-- and doing so willingly, with eyes wide open, because they wanted those benefits.

There is definitely a lot that needs to be accounted for. This is why I've been suggesting we institute some sort of truth and reconciliation process to deal with the greivances stemming from this imperialism. Reparations can and should follow but...at some point all of humanity has to come to terms with the reality that not everything can be undone or mitigated so easily. Perhaps other amends that are not so obvious right now will be found.

Recall in the story how the invaders in the War of the Worlds succumbed to the lowly microbes and viruses of Earth's biosphere and how the toll of human death attributed to these over millions of years was the price our species has had to pay for its place in the world. In other words these individual deaths were not in vain. I'm trying to convey the idea that the evolution of human rights and dignity has similarily been caused by the experience of human suffering from abuse and degradation. Perhaps these deaths need not be in vain if their sacrifice is aknowledged as having caused a more enlightened human awareness. Its up to us and future generations to ensure this happens.

Perhaps one day on the future there will be a monument to the memory of the human holocaust that is still underway.

[eyeball]

But you won't, because even though your Empire started it, the US may sure as hell finish it. God Save the Queen.

All you will accomplish is to dash yourselves to pieces like every other empire that came before you however you also sound like you are on the road to acknowledging what I just said to AW. There's hope.

I'd like to see a US President get up in front of a reconciliation panel and say what you just said because that's who the world needs to hear that from. There is little doubt that empires establish the basis for their existance in fear, others and their own.

What is it that you think the US is so intent on finishing anyway? The domination of the planet?

[bush_cheney2004]

All you will accomplish is to dash yourselves to pieces like every other empire that came before you however you also sound like you are on the road to acknowledging what I just said to AW. There's hope.

Doesn't matter...'tis better to have done so and lost than never at all. Truth and Justice sip from the fountain of Power.

I'd like to see a US President get up in front of a reconciliation panel and say what you just said because that's who the world needs to hear that from. There is little doubt that empires establish the basis for their existance in fear, others and their own.

I'd like to the US president stand up and tell America's enemies to kiss his ass. Confession is for sinners, not empires.

What is it that you think the US is so intent on finishing anyway? The domination of the planet?

The US is intent on finishing your turd pie.

[eyeball]

Britain's Empire is different in that they gave up on their empire and out of that was born the Commonwealth.

I think the elements that really stand out now however is the effect huge multi-national corporations have on empire building in the present and in particular their role in the US military-industrial-complex.

[eyeball]

Economics trumps virtue = dishonour trumps death.

[bush_cheney2004]

Britain's Empire is different in that they gave up on their empire and out of that was born the Commonwealth.

And the world cheered because Britain decided to open franchises instead of corporate stores?

I think the elements that really stand out now however is the effect huge multi-national corporations have on empire building in the present and in particular their role in the US military-industrial-complex.

Bingo! Check out which harmless "Commonwealth" now dominates the world's mining sector and many heavy metal goodies. It's competing with another "Commonwealth" down under.

[WestViking]

You just can't connect these dots can you? The military quagmire we're in over there is backing up and bubbling up through the sewers under Parliament Hill over here and we're becoming a more divided country as a result. I'd rather we get on with the business of fixing our plumbing and modernizing our own democracy than trying to build one for a society that wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

If we weren't presenting another target for them they'd just go back to fighting amongst themselves. Its not us or them. That's just plain nonsense from the mouth of a frightened little chimp.

How quickly you forget that PM Chretien asked the US for help to get our initial forces over the Afghanistan back in early 2002. Just because Taliban Jack Layton and clueless Stephan Dion are dithering over what they would do if they had any power (one wanst to negotiate with al Qaeda while the other wants to invade Pakistan) there is no real spit on support for our military in Afghanistan beyond the usual crowd of ragged peaceniks and limousine liberals.

Modern terrorism has change the world. Considering the amount of drugs smuggled into North America every month, smuggling in the makings of bombs that could seriously maim and kill hundreds in our civilian population is not all that challenging. Getting a major bomb into a container sent to Canada is not a great challenge. We are not safe from terrorist attack

Edited January 28, 2008 by WestViking

[jbg]

Getting a major bomb into a container sent to Canada is not a great challenge. We are not safe from terrorist attack

WV, you don't think that making people stand in long lines at airports and turning in their liquid gel products before flying, and making people snake through metal detectors when going into buildings will ensure the West's safety?

[WestViking]

WV, you don't think that making people stand in long lines at airports and turning in their liquid gel products before flying, and making people snake through metal detectors when going into buildings will ensure the West's safety?

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but metal detectors are useless in detecting explosives. One can easily pass with a brief-case full of high intensity explosives. Detonators are a little more difficult - you sent then to yourself by courier. Assemble on site and go create a little mayhem.

[Wilber]

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but metal detectors are useless in detecting explosives. One can easily pass with a brief-case full of high intensity explosives. Detonators are a little more difficult - you sent then to yourself by courier. Assemble on site and go create a little mayhem.

Your brief case or luggage won't go through a metal detector it will be X rayed. The idea of screening airline passengers or people entering building is to keep the aircraft or building safe not safeguard the country in general and separating the explosive from the detonator will go a long way toward that.

[jbg]

Your brief case or luggage won't go through a metal detector it will be X rayed. The idea of screening airline passengers or people entering building is to keep the aircraft or building safe not safeguard the country in general and separating the explosive from the detonator will go a long way toward that.

I somehow doubt that Mohamed is going to peacefully and serenely allow his weapons to be seized by airport security. He'll find some other way to accomplish his objective. Making people snake through nonsensical "security" precautions to avoid profiling would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

[Peter F]

I somehow doubt that Mohamed is going to peacefully and serenely allow his weapons to be seized by airport security. He'll find some other way to accomplish his objective. Making people snake through nonsensical "security" precautions to avoid profiling would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

Whats tragic about waiting in line?

[jbg]

Whats tragic about waiting in line?

The fact that useless "precautions" take the place of effective ones, such as profiling. Worse, they dilute the public appetite for security since any intelligent person knows these precautions are largely bogus.