Afghanistan

[Oleg Bach]

We have the right to question those laws...I don't think we have the moral right to use our troops as blackmail for them o undemocratically change their laws.

Democratic nations often vote for stupid laws.

If old Christian doctrine is what made our nation originally - what brought us prospertity and what brought us democracey - then those in far reaches of the world that convert to Christianity must be protected by us..The execution of Christians is not exceptable. For us stand by and say that democratically elected governments are good - and can do what ever they please - even if they commit evil is absurd. Under true democracy the rights of the individual is paramount. If the rights of one individual is denyed then the rights of the collective is denied..Under God all are dirt and all are equal in worth. To quote from the movie "The Gladiator" - - - "Is the life of one good man worth the whole empire of Rome?" Most certainly it is! - also to quote the great rabboni and King of Judea - Jesus the Christ..."I have not come to save the whole flock but to find and save the one singular lost sheep" - to para phrase. Any nation that destroys one indivual under the guise of doing it for the common good of the many is not a nation worth protecting - and those that are in peril must be saved by us even by force.

[weaponeer]

Dion travels to Afghanistan.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/01/12/a...istan-dion.html

The position differs from the NDP who simply want to pull out. I have no idea what the BQ position.

Dion, the stupidity of that man is really something. The whole place is a combat zone. Everyone is in a combat role, leaving your base is a combat role.

The ONLY thing we should be doing is combat!!! Nation building is BS, it is not a military role.

The reality of the CF will soon catch up here. I believe the army ground troops will be out in Feb 2009. All three army regiments have rotated through several times, they are tired and burned out. I think you will see a CF18 squadron go to Khandahar in Feb 2009. The role will most likely change to air combat, close air support to NATO forces and a small army airfield security unit.

[normanchateau]

The execution of Christians is not exceptable. For us stand by and say that democratically elected governments are good - and can do what ever they please - even if they commit evil is absurd. Under true democracy the rights of the individual is paramount.

Afghanistan is no more a "true democracy" than Iran. Both have a democratically elected government yet both have constitutions where human rights legislation MUST not be be contrary to the laws of Islam.

If you are born Christian in such countries, then you may practice your religion. However, if you convert from Islam to Christianity, then you can legally be executed.

[Muddy]

Dion`s mission to Afganistan is demoralizing to not only the troops in the field but the country as a whole. He is the opposition leader and should confine HIS personal comments and proposed policys to within our borders.

He was part of a previous government that got us into this mission. Where was he and his big mouth then?

[normanchateau]

Dion`s mission to Afganistan is demoralizing ... the country as a whole. He was part of a previous government that got us into this mission. Where was he and his big mouth then?

How is his mission demoralizing the country as a whole? Only 16% of Canadians want the Canadian mission in Afghanistan extended and only 19% think that Harper's government has effectively explained why we're in Afghanistan:

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/16524

The mission was scheduled to end in February, 2007. In May, 2006, the Harper government narrowly passed a motion to extend Canada's mission in Afghanistan by two years in a 149-145 vote in the House of Commons.

Where was Dion's "big mouth" in May, 2006? He was among the 145 MPs who voted not to extend the mission.

Do you seriously believe that a majority of Canadian MPs would support extending the combat mission beyond February, 2009, if a vote were held this month?

I wonder if even 16% of Canadians would support extending the mission if they actually knew that the constitution of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (Afghanistan's official name) barbarically permits the legal execution of citizens who convert to Christianity.

[Muddy]

Norman , how would you feel about this Guy if you were a soldier serving ,have served or going to serve in that mission. As for Islamic law against conversion to Christianity ,of course all we civilized people find that reprehensible,as do we find the previos Taliban governments treatment of women. But thats not why we got into this fight. It was to destroy the Taliban government that was giving binny and his gang a headquarters to train his gang of mad Islamic killers to attack the free world. Lest you forget thay did, 9/11,Bali, The tube in England,the train in Spain etc etc but most worrysome of ,the threat by Bin Ladin of terrorists attacks on Canadians. Thats what Canadians should be thinking about. It was a real threat, Binny Baby does keep his promises, we just may have prevented him from carrying out his promise by destroying his ability to train and prosecute his sick plans.

[normanchateau]

Norman , how would you feel about this Guy if you were a soldier serving ,have served or going to serve in that mission.

Although I've never served, I actually belong to the Legion and frequently chat and drink with those who have served (admittedly in previous wars). Believe it or not, there are members of the Legion here in Vancouver who don't support CPC. Probably most do but I've met many who strongly support other parties, i.e., Liberals, NDP and even Green.

How would I feel? I'd listen with an open mind before dismissing or accepting anything he had to say. Just because he's Leader of the Opposition does not mean that he's unreasonable and irrational.

[M.Dancer]

Dion`s mission to Afganistan is demoralizing to not only the troops in the field ....

This is the first I have read or heard that the troops are demoralized. When I went to hear Graeme Smith speak just before Xmas, he said the opposite. Where do you arrive at this conclusion?

[Moxie]

If a majority of Canadians want the mission scrapped then the PM is obliged to listen to we the people.

Personally I want them out when their mandated date comes up, it's time to let the rest of NATO play ball.

[Army Guy]

Afghanistan is no more a "true democracy" than Iran. Both have a democratically elected government yet both have constitutions where human rights legislation MUST not be be contrary to the laws of Islam.

The same could be said about most of the democracies in the world, is there such a place where true democracy exists ....where?

And it was not so long ago that we also had laws and moral values based on religion, yes here in Canada. In fact i'm sure if one look you could find a few...

But it is a step in the right direction, and 1000% better than life under Taliban rule....but that does not score any pionts, lets not forget this is what they want, they are not doing it to make us happy, it is thier interputation of democractic society that counts....

The mission was scheduled to end in February, 2007. In May, 2006, the Harper government narrowly passed a motion to extend Canada's mission in Afghanistan by two years in a 149-145 vote in the House of Commons.

Where was Dion's "big mouth" in May, 2006? He was among the 145 MPs who voted not to extend the mission.

What is the liberal agenda here, Mr Dion has explained to the Afganis government that we will stay, but not in a combat role....we have done enough, our soldiers are tired and want a rest ( BS)....and now we want to hide in the north with the other NATO countries, it's time for them to fight...and ours to hide....But the only ones that are stepping up to the plate is the US and Britian...big surprise there....and just how long do they have to carry the fight...

But thats not all he's been saying he figures with a reduced afgan mission, our military could take on other roles like dafur, and others... So much for the rest....same problem in Dafur, only thier is none of the big boys there to help out...Shit that sounds like fun....can't call in no air strikes, very limited arty strikes...no helo support, no helo evac...but hey...it does not start with AF and end with GAN thats a plus....won't Canadians be happy with that...tickled pink i'm sure....until they start getting the bill, then they will change thier tune once more....

And who pays for all this flip flopping....We the soldiers do....DND pays the whole shot...ya i know what your saying ....DND spends my fu**ing tax dollars and thats where i want them to go....so pack yer bags...

And all of it true, DND is funded by this nations tax dollars....but while we are spending those limited amount of dollars you so generously provided on mistakes because you keep changing your minds....those monies could be spent on equipment that saves lives....our lives....you know the guys that you actually say you support...

It would be nice to support all the lost causes in the world, do some good and all that give me a hug stuff....but the Canadian people have long ago decided on the size they wanted our military....so pick a mission and stick with it....Besides by the time the Canadians have finshed debating the Dafur problem it will be over....another reason to stick with what we have in AFGAN...

And to say this is a Canadian mission is not entirly true....it may be a Canadian military mission , but as far as the Canadian public interest is concerned it was gone long ago....It's the men and women of our nations military that has been carring this burden.....A burden placed there by those that abandoned it long ago....go figure....

Even the liberals have come to the conclusion that we are winning in AFGAN....so why not stay with a winner...and finish off the job we started....

[jdobbin]

It looks like a Taliban offensive has started early.

A day or so after Canadian soldiers were hurt in an IED and a day after an attack on foreigners in Kabul (did Ignatieff and Dion stay at that hotel? I still have not heard), a Canadian soldier was killed by an IED today.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/afghan_cda_death

Afghanistan - A Canadian soldier has died and a second soldier has been injured after an armoured vehicle they were travelling in hit a suspected improvised explosive device early this morning in southern Afghanistan.

Military officials say the blast occurred around 7:15 a.m., local time, in the Arghandab district, about 10 kilometres north of Kandahar city.

The soldiers were on patrol riding in an armoured vehicle at the time of the incident.

I think the Tories have to be careful when other politicians travel to Afghanistan. They have taken the opportunity to criticize Dion while he was in country and the CBC reported on the weekend that Helen Guergis actually indicated where Dion would be next.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...4/BNStory/Front

"She effectively told the Taliban that they would be leaving base to visit the Provincial Reconstruction Team," Mr. del Torchio said.

A spokesman for Ms. Guergis denied she did anything wrong and that the Liberal characterizations of the matter amounted to "much ado about nothing."

It all began on Saturday, when the Liberal Party of Canada put out a statement announcing Mr. Dion had just concluded a successful visit with Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Almost immediately that same evening, Ms. Guergis shot back in a message circulated to reporters. "The irony of Dion and Ignatieff being in a war zone and being protected by the same troops who protect Afghan women and children is palpable," she said. "I think he should apologize to our troops while he is touring the PRT in safety."

There was a problem with that statement: At that point, Mr. Dion and Mr. Ignatieff had not yet been to the Provincial Reconstruction Team base, or PRT, as it is known. At the time the statement was circulated, they weren't due to be there until the following morning.

The remarks appeared on news sites, even as journalists embedded with Canadian Forces in Kandahar were barred from making any mention of the fact that the VIPs were in town. This is standard for what the military describes as reasons of "operational security." It is customary for news of such visits to be embargoed until after dignitaries have boarded an outbound plane.

Jeffrey Kroeker, Ms. Guergis's spokesman, said that his boss was only making an educated guess as to where the Liberals might visit. While there is one PRT in Kandahar where the Canadians are based, there are many throughout Afghanistan.

Over the weekend, two Dutch soldiers were killed in hostile fire and in the U.S., an Army colonel died from wounds sustained in the first week of January.

Over the weekend, the British Defence Secretary said that the Brits could be engaged in Afghanistan for decades.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUK...13?rpc=401&

Defence Secretary Des Browne has warned that Britain could be engaged in Afghanistan for decades.

Asked when British soldiers would be withdrawn from Afghanistan, he told Sunday's The People: "We cannot risk it again becoming an ungoverned training haven for terrorists who threaten the UK."

He said: "It is a commitment which could last decades, although it will reduce over time."

"But there is only so much our forces can achieve. The job can only be completed by the international community working with the Afghan government and its army," he added.

Britain, which has about 7,800 troops operating in Afghanistan in a 40,000-strong NATO stabilisation force, is expected to increase that number as it draws down in Iraq.

The British, American and Australians have indicated they will be sending more troops. That is good because 2009 is still a very long time for Canadians to be sitting down in Kandahar given an increase in violence.

Edited January 15, 2008 by jdobbin

[M.Dancer]

A little perspective...an ied attack here and there, a terrorist bombing here and there doesn't make a spring offensive.

If it were so we could send back half of all the troops there.......instead an addition marine battle group will be there in weeks to give the Taliban a warm hello.

[jdobbin]

A little perspective...an ied attack here and there, a terrorist bombing here and there doesn't make a spring offensive.

If it were so we could send back half of all the troops there.......instead an addition marine battle group will be there in weeks to give the Taliban a warm hello.

The BBC was reporting that this is the second year in a row where that has been no real let up over winter so you are probably right that it doesn't amount to a spring offensive. However, if the trend continues through the year, it would put it on par as one of the mots violent years of the war like 2007 was.

[M.Dancer]

The BBC was reporting that this is the second year in a row where that has been no real let up over winter so you are probably right that it doesn't amount to a spring offensive. However, if the trend continues through the year, it would put it on par as one of the mots violent years of the war like 2007 was.

You're missing the point. Laying booby traps isn't an offensive. Advancing and siezing real estate is an offensive. In the past that;s what the Taleban did, they reclaimed terrirtory that they had been ejected from. The failure has been to leave adequate security behind. With additional troops flowing in well before March, the taliban will advance into the valley of death.....allah willing

[jdobbin]

You're missing the point. Laying booby traps isn't an offensive. Advancing and siezing real estate is an offensive. In the past that;s what the Taleban did, they reclaimed terrirtory that they had been ejected from. The failure has been to leave adequate security behind. With additional troops flowing in well before March, the taliban will advance into the valley of death.....allah willing

It might not be an offensive but is effective as the last year demonstrates.

I agree that more troops from other nations to hold land once taken would be a huge improvement. It is what Canada has been asking for in every year since 2005. It would also help to have countries who do more than toil in safety and leave nations like Canada face the hostility directly.

One last point: None of this new surge of troops will do anything if the Afghan government remains incompetent and corrupt. If they can never take over, it will indeed be decades of occupation as the British Defence Secretary says.

[jbg]

One last point: None of this new surge of troops will do anything if the Afghan government remains incompetent and corrupt. If they can never take over, it will indeed be decades of occupation as the British Defence Secretary says.

What do you expect in Afghanistan? A competent and uncorruptible leader like Chretien?

[M.Dancer]

. If they can never take over, it will indeed be decades of occupation as the British Defence Secretary says.

You phrase that like it's a big surprise. I believe there have been a succesion of experts, Canadian and foreign who have send as late as last year, a decade minimum. Because the task his hard or long is not a reason to fret but rather to apply ourselves more robustly.

[jdobbin]

You phrase that like it's a big surprise. I believe there have been a succesion of experts, Canadian and foreign who have send as late as last year, a decade minimum. Because the task his hard or long is not a reason to fret but rather to apply ourselves more robustly.

I don't think it is a big surprise. I think that is a drain on Canadian resources that might be needed elsewhere. I'd like to see a bigger indication that the Afghans will take over their own affairs rather than hear Canada is building permanent bases there.

[jdobbin]

Dion says that Guergis should be fired.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/01/16/...fghanistan.html

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion has called for the resignation of a Tory cabinet minister, claiming she endangered his life by announcing his plan to visit a provincial reconstruction team in Kandahar.

Speaking to reporters in Quebec, Dion said Helena Guergis, secretary of state of foreign affairs and international trade, made a serious breach of security in a statement she released to the media about his trip with Deputy Leader Michael Ignatieff.

Dion, who just returned from Afghanistan, also wrote an open letter to Prime Minister Stephen Harper, demanding she be removed from her post.

"In publicly revealing in advance the itinerary of the delegation in Afghanistan, Ms. Guergis violated the news blackout put in place for our protection, jeopardizing the security of the Afghan and Canadian military and civilian officials who welcomed and accompanied us during our trip," Dion wrote.

Guergis' statement Saturday criticized Dion and Ignatieff, suggesting they had waited too long to visit Canadian soldiers.

She added that Dion "should apologize to our troops while he is touring the PRT (provincial reconstruction team).

Given the attack in Kabul a day after came from information that was leaked about Norwegian officials, it is not a stretch to think that Guergis was reckless in her attempt to take a swipe at Dion. Had Dion and Ignatieff been killed, she might be looking at a serious investigation.

It ironic that the Tories used the issue to to take a swipe at Dion since he and people in his party have been prevented from going to Afghanistan because the government said there was security concerns. The moment Dion does get permission to go, he has government cabinet ministers talking about where he will be when he travels there.

[M.Dancer]

Had Dion ...been killed, she might be looking at a serious investigation.

But on the otherhand, think of the bump it would have given his popularity....

[jdobbin]

But on the otherhand, think of the bump it would have given his popularity....

The Conservatives would probably string up Guergis for delivering a Liberal victory.

In any case, it was a stupid remark for her to make to score a political point and could have easily ended up in death and may have seen her charged with a crime.

[M.Dancer]

The Conservatives would probably string up Guergis for delivering a Liberal victory.

In any case, it was a stupid remark for her to make to score a political point and could have easily ended up in death and may have seen her charged with a crime.

I agree. If it is true she should be removed from her post and placed far away from sharp objects.

[capricorn]

Had Dion and Ignatieff been killed, she might be looking at a serious investigation.

Had there not been a Canadian soldier killed on January 15th just as Dion returned to Canada, I wonder if Dion would have raised this Guergis issue.

[jdobbin]

Had there not been a Canadian soldier killed on January 15th just as Dion returned to Canada, I wonder if Dion would have raised this Guergis issue.

I think after the hotel was attacked in Kabul targeting foreigners, the issue of leaked information became paramount. Guergis brushed that all aside to make a political point. The Globe and Mail and CBC reported that there was some irritation on the part of the military about the itinerary being talked about in advance of Dion's visit.

You think Guergis should have been talking about Dion's itinerary in Afghanistan?

[jdobbin]

Seems Robert Gates doesn't think much of NATO efforts in southern Afghanistan.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Defence Minister Peter MacKay is downplaying a report saying his U.S. counterpart doesn't believe NATO troops are effectively fighting the Taliban in southern Afghanistan.

An L.A. Times article quotes U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates expressing doubts about NATO countries that have sent large numbers of combat troops to fight in the south.

"I'm worried we have some military forces that don't know how to do counterinsurgency operations,'' the article quoted Gates as saying. "Most of the European forces, NATO forces, are not trained in counterinsurgency."

The report sparked an angry reaction from some British, Dutch and Canadian politicians. The three countries are spearheading the fight in the southern regions.