Conservative attack ads

[Shady]

These particular ads are about as lame and as tame as political ads can get. Are people seriously getting a case of the vapours over them? Good God, grow some balls.

[Evening Star]

If only McGill was actually that good. In every international ranking for the past 5 years U of T has outranked McGill. Usually in or just out of the top 20 universities in the world. McGill has been in the 30s or 40s.

Actually, McGill outranked U of T in the 2007, 2008, and 2009 Times Higher Education rankings, placing in the top 20 each time (#12 in 2007):

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/Rankings2009-Top200.html

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=243&pubCode=1&navcode=137 (2007 rankings given next to the 2008 rankings)

U of T did outrank McGill in 2010.

[PIK]

Yeah I guess I forgot all about it. Tool. They're not factual, you're just so partisan you can't see straight.

What are they attacking, the ones I have seen just state the facts and canadians have the right to know that iggy has ripped canada many times, he never missed canada except for the park ,made fun of our flag calls himself an american. Those are facts, not attacks. Face it you blew it by bringing him up here, you thought canadians are stupid enough to fall for it, well those stupid canadians are going to make him pay at the next election. And then you will just give bob rae the riens are we are in for along time, Life is good.

[nicky10013]

What are they attacking, the ones I have seen just state the facts and canadians have the right to know that iggy has ripped canada many times, he never missed canada except for the park ,made fun of our flag calls himself an american. Those are facts, not attacks. Face it you blew it by bringing him up here, you thought canadians are stupid enough to fall for it, well those stupid canadians are going to make him pay at the next election. And then you will just give bob rae the riens are we are in for along time, Life is good.

Stupid enough to fall for what? Considering the history of the CPC you better watch about what claims you throw around. Ignatieff isn't the one who has 30% tied up in his palm thinking he's, you know, fiscally Conservative.

I still remember him having to release a hurried platform 5 days before the last election because he had the hubris to believe Canadians would vote for him anyway. Now THAT is treating Canadians like they're stupid. These ads treat them like they're stupid. These ads basically say to Canadians we don't think you can understand a true policy debate so we're going to throw vile accusations at the other guy and hope they stick in your fragile and undeveloped minds.

Edited January 20, 2011 by nicky10013

[PIK]

Stupid enough to fall for what? Considering the history of the CPC you better watch about what claims you throw around. Ignatieff isn't the one who has 30% tied up in his palm thinking he's, you know, fiscally Conservative.

I still remember him having to release a hurried platform 5 days before the last election because he had the hubris to believe Canadians would vote for him anyway. Now THAT is treating Canadians like they're stupid. These ads treat them like they're stupid. These ads basically say to Canadians we don't think you can understand a true policy debate so we're going to throw vile accusations at the other guy and hope they stick in your fragile and undeveloped minds.

It shows he is not the man to lead this country and it shows the libs have not learned thier lesson by bring this guy up. That best thing for the libs is a harper majority so for once the libs will have four years to gut the party of all the old back room boys and the old chreteinites and martinites and rebuild that party with new young canadians with fresh ideas, yes I am a con, but I believe in 2 strong parties that respect canadian law and culture for canadians to pick to who can lead the country. Edited January 20, 2011 by PIK

[nicky10013]

It shows he is not the man to lead this country and it shows the libs have not learned thier lesson by bring this guy up. That best thing for the libs is a harper majority so for once the libs will have four years to gut the party of all the old back room boys and the old chreteinites and martinites and rebuild that party with new young canadians with fresh ideas, yes I am a con, but I believe in 2 strong parties that respect canadian law and culture for canadians to pick to who can lead the country.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you said earlier. Furthermore, yes YOU ARE A CON. Let's face it, NO MATTER WHO WAS leader...even if it was the most inspiring man in the world, the best thing to do would let the Cons get their majority and come back with fresh ideas. And the leader after that. And the leader after that as well.

See, now you're treating ME like I'm stupid. Maybe you should retract your previous statement.

[Saipan]

you said.... yes YOU ARE....you're.... you should.... your....

[nicky10013]

The point of this is?

[Saipan]

The point of this is?

Focus on the issue.

[nicky10013]

Focus on the issue.

I wasn't the one who pulled this discussion off topic to begin with. I believe this had something to do with it.

you said.... yes YOU ARE....you're.... you should.... your....

Would you like to start making sense or are you just not sure how to in the first place?

[Saipan]

I wasn't the one who pulled this discussion off topic to begin with. I believe this had something to do with it.

Would you like to start making sense or are you just not sure how to in the first place?

Are you still debating other posters?

[Molly]

Pig wrasslin', Nicky?

Feeding the trolls?

[August1991]

There are quite a few previous threads related to this topic. I am sifting through them to figure out which ones to merge. You all can give me recommendations if you wish.

I should have dated this particular Attack in the thread title. Attack Ads in 2011 are not the same as Attack Ads in 2009.

Anyway.

The scientific method is usually never found anywhere in attack ads.

On the contrary, the scientific method is entirely based on finding holes/errors in a particular argument. When Galileo said the Earth moved, he was attacking Aristotle, and the Catholic Church.

(And please. I'm not saying Harper is Galileo so please don't say that I am.)

What bullshit. God forbid we have a PM with a modicum of international experience and perish the thought of someone who may be a little smarter than the average mail room boy.

Ignatieff is as Canadian as you or I, and the childish attempts to define him as not by the CPC show their true colours, power at any and all costs.

Sorry Shakey, Ignatieff does not sound like an English-Canadian. And he's certainly not a French-Canadian. So, what is he?

When Lévesque accused Trudeau of not being a Québécois, Trudeau made short shrift of Lévesque:

On me disait que monsieur Lévesque, pas plus tard qu'il y a deux (2) jours disait que dans mon nom il y a Elliott et puis Elliott, c'est le côté anglais et ça s'explique que je suis pour le NON, parce que, au fond, voyez-vous, je ne suis pas un Québécois comme ceux qui vont voter OUI.

Eh bien, c'est ça, le mépris, mes chers amis, c'est de dire qu'il y a différentes sortes de Québécois, c'est dire que les Québécois du NON ne sont pas d'aussi bons Québécois et puis ont peut-être un petit peu de sang étranger, alors que les gens du OUI ont du sang pur dans les veines. C'est ça le mépris et c'est ça la division qui se crée chez un peuple et c'est ça à quoi nous disons NON…

National Archives

These particular ads are about as lame and as tame as political ads can get. Are people seriously getting a case of the vapours over them? Good God, grow some balls.

The ads are effective and I can only wonder why Harper has chosen to roll them out now.

I reckon that Harper doesn't want an election.

Edited January 21, 2011 by August1991

[Molly]

You reckon he doesn't want an election? Well, the preemptive strikes suggest that he intends to cause one.

I certainly find them stirring. They remind me of every reason that I view the PCs with contempt. They are, to begin, mendacious to the core, and as Nicky says, insult the intelligence of very many of us. Not all of us , obviously, because the bobblehead chorus chirps along on cue...

This, August:

Sorry Shakey, Ignatieff does not sound like an English-Canadian. And he's certainly not a French-Canadian. So, what is he?

is about as offensive as it gets.

He sounds like me, August. He sounds Canadian. Crawl out of your hillbilly hole long enough to learn that the only dichotomy to 'Canadian' is 'yes' or 'no'.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Molly

[Wilber]

I hate this kind of add but unfortunately both parties seem to use as many as they can afford. Small wonder the public's opinion of politicians is steadily declining when they themselves are continualy assasinating each others character.

[M.Dancer]

Sorry Shakey, Ignatieff does not sound like an English-Canadian. And he's certainly not a French-Canadian. So, what is he?

franchement, ils est un allophone, n'est ce pas?

[nicky10013]

I hate this kind of add but unfortunately both parties seem to use as many as they can afford. Small wonder the public's opinion of politicians is steadily declining when they themselves are continualy assasinating each others character.

I couldn't agree more. The funny thing is, that despite claims to the contrary, these ads simply do not work. For either side. They have a greater potential to hurt yourself instead of the other guy, but they still do it.

[Moonbox]

I couldn't agree more. The funny thing is, that despite claims to the contrary, these ads simply do not work. For either side. They have a greater potential to hurt yourself instead of the other guy, but they still do it.

They work. They work very well. Harper succesfully branded Dion as a wimp and an out of touch leader before Dion even had a chance. Paul Martin did the same thing to Harper in his first election, although to a lesser extent.

They work because the electorate is largely stupid and ignorant about politics. It's a lot easier to lie to a moron or to someone who knows nothing about what they're talking about. Think about how many times you've been fleeced by some scumbag on commission at a bank, car dealership, electronics store, insurance brokerage etc...It's the same with politics.

[nicky10013]

They work. They work very well. Harper succesfully branded Dion as a wimp and an out of touch leader before Dion even had a chance. Paul Martin did the same thing to Harper in his first election, although to a lesser extent.

They work because the electorate is largely stupid and ignorant about politics. It's a lot easier to lie to a moron or to someone who knows nothing about what they're talking about. Think about how many times you've been fleeced by some scumbag on commission at a bank, car dealership, electronics store, insurance brokerage etc...It's the same with politics.

So show me the stats where Harper airs these ads and then Liberal numbers plummet. The only time that's happened is when Ignatieff said he was pulling the plug and he's been through multiple rounds of these ads.

We Get the Politics We Pay For

Andrew Coyne

Watching the latest batch of Tory attack ads, the overwhelming feeling is not of revulsion, but fatigue. They’re disgusting enough, in places; the slurs on Michael Ignatieff’s loyalty, the misleading quotations, the half-truths. But my God, are they familiar.

Is there a school somewhere where they churn out these announcers with the perpetual sneer in their voices? Do they get extra credit for mastering the derisory half-chuckle? The grainy surveillance-camera footage, the unflattering images, the sense of mortal danger if this criminal/madman were ever let near the levers of power: how many thousands of times have we seen exactly the same tone, the same approach, the same ads?

That’s not to say there aren’t grains of truth in the ads. It’s true that Ignatieff went along with the last attempt to form a coalition government, and won’t rule out another; that he once proposed a carbon tax; and yes, that he used to live in America. On some of these, criticism is legitimate. But criticism, not vilification. The literal truth of a charge is not sufficient. Tone is also important, as is proportion, and context. That’s if you want to be, you know, persuasive.

Well, of course, they must be persuasive: otherwise they wouldn’t keep running them, would they? Isn’t that what we’re always told, as if by way of justification, that attack ads “work”? Actually, there’s very little evidence that they do. Some may, I don’t doubt. But as a generalization? It’s supposition, mostly, attractive to would-be sophisticates and repeated at every opportunity by the people who make these things for a living.

It wasn’t Tory attack ads that persuaded people Stéphane Dion was “not a leader”—he did that all on his own. Neither did it require an expensive media campaign to convince the public that Ignatieff lacked the common touch, or was ill suited to politics. Indeed, if these ads are so effective, why is it that all the parties remain stuck in the polls, more or less where they have been for years?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/01/21/we-get-the-politics-we-pay-for/

Edited January 21, 2011 by nicky10013

[Shady]

Watching the latest batch of Tory attack ads, the overwhelming feeling is not of revulsion, but fatigue. They’re disgusting enough

Never heard of Andrew Coyne before. But he must be a political novice. As political ads go, these ones are pretty tame.

But if you're premise is that they don't work. The Tories wouldn't be spending money on them. And people in the opposition wouldn't be complaining about them.

[Scotty]

Don't the Conservatives understand that if they are doing these attack ads they are basically asking the voting public for an election that no one wants.

No.The attack ads are fairly basic, and designed to keep the opposition popularity down. One thing you can be certain, if the Liberals popularity ever rose to the point where they thought they had a chance at forming the next government, there would be an election.

besides, its a use it or lose it thing with the Tories. They have way too much money to spend during an election campaign, so they might as well use it now.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Scotty

[Scotty]

Don't be silly. Of course it will be. It's up to the Conservatives whether or not they want to play nice and make a deal to keep parliament alive.

All parties have to agree to play nice or it doesn't work, much like this forum. If one side starts hurling insults, the other side is certain o eventually respond in kind.

The Reform party did try to play nice years ago, but the other parties heaped scorn, insults and abuse on them and they eventually gave it up.

[Scotty]

The demands of the opposition aren't abhorrent. It hasn't been the opposition that has been continually scolded for not playing well with others.

That's as may be, but the truth is that when you phrase your questions along the lines of "Have you stopped eating your wife yet you scum?" you are unlikely to get a civil response.

[Scotty]

As for the attack ads, on all sides they don't work.

They work. Everyone says they hate them and pay no attention, but they do, that's been proven repeatedly in the US. If they didn't work, these spin masters wouldn't recommend spending millions on them.

[nicky10013]

Never heard of Andrew Coyne before. But he must be a political novice. As political ads go, these ones are pretty tame.

But if you're premise is that they don't work. The Tories wouldn't be spending money on them. And people in the opposition wouldn't be complaining about them.

You're assuming that the people in within the CPC aren't as stupid as you. I've seen little evidence to prove that's true.

Furthermore, no one that has said these ads work have proved that they do. I'd like to see some. I doubt I will but I'd like to see it.