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Conservative attack ads


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No, don't buy it. We vote as often or more (certainly more) than the US. Frequency of elections is not relevant.

The turn out in the 2008 election was 56%+

The turn out in the 2004 election was 53%+

In Canada however....the 2008 election was 58+% and the 2006 was 64%+

Not a striking difference but this in no way proves your point.

Not so much of a difference that it would have any bearing on the effectiveness of political advertizing.

According to you...with absolutely no proof.

Elizabeth May knows they work...so well in fact should would pass a low to curb the freedom of expression and ban them.

http://www.elizabethmay.ca/in-the-news/island-tides/a-prescription-for-a-healthier-democracy-ban-political-tv-advertising-2/

She's just as much an idiot as the morons who run these things.

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Considering you haven't posted any of your own, trying to throw the research onus onto me is hilarous and desperate.

Actually I have. I linked to an NPR study asserting that political attack ads do have an effect. However, you've done nothing to back up your premise.

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k, so I watched both ads. They seem to be attacking policy not Harper personally. I don't think that either are what anyone would deem an attack ad, am I incorrect?

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That best thing for the libs is a harper majority so for once the libs will have four years to gut the party of all the old back room boys and the old chreteinites and martinites and rebuild that party with new young canadians with fresh ideas, yes I am a con, but I believe in 2 strong parties that respect canadian law and culture for canadians to pick to who can lead the country.

I don't think Canada has really had a two-party system since before the Borden coalition.
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Sorry Shakey, Ignatieff does not sound like an English-Canadian. And he's certainly not a French-Canadian. So, what is he?
Either a political tourist or denizen of Hahvahd.
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While that writer doesn't seem to understand what an attack ad is, this one gets it:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/jeffrey-simpson/attack-the-policies-not-the-person/article1879272/

There’s not a word in the attack ad against Mr. Ignatieff or the one directed at NDP leader Jack Layton concerning their policies or ideas. Politics, if you follow the twisted logic behind the ads, is all about personalities; and political argumentation is apparently all about tearing down the motivations and personalities of opponents.

This twisted logic makes the ads so thoroughly appalling. To say that a politician is ambitious, and should be scorned as such, is like mocking an athlete because he or she wants to win the game, or a business person because he or she wishes to make a profit

Is Mr. Harper himself without political ambition? After all, apart from a few short years out of politics in Calgary, he’s been around or in politics all his adult life. It would be demeaning toward Mr. Harper to say, as he now alleges about Mr. Ignatieff, that everything he does is driven by personal ambition.

When a politician so lowers the tone of discourse to impugn his opponents’ motivations and backgrounds, how does that politician expect the broad public to have any respect for the accuser, the political process and all those who work there. If anything, the attack ads reveal much more about the attacker than the attacked.

No wonder all parties struggle to attract people of great quality to politics, since who would want to be depicted as the Conservative attack machine does about two highly intelligent, committed men such as Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Layton?

You can disagree with both of them on issues or ideology; you can criticize their sense of the public interest; you can dislike their parties; but they are both honourable men who, as a matter of public record, accomplished more outside politics (Mr. Ignatieff as a writer, broadcaster and public intellectual of international renown; Mr. Layton as an academic and head of the Canadian Federation of Municipalities) than Mr. Harper did.

What attack ads do, therefore, is degrade discourse and turn all but the sharpest partisan into someone revolted by the entire world of politics. The Liberals began running hard-hitting television ads Friday, but at least they stuck to issues, not personalities.

We, as citizens, might hope for political leaders who inspire, or at the very least act as we would wish to act ourselves, with some measure of civility and mutual respect.

(Emphasis is mine.)

Edited by Molly
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When a politician so lowers the tone of discourse to impugn his opponents’ motivations and backgrounds, how does that politician expect the broad public to have any respect for the accuser, the political process and all those who work there. If anything, the attack ads reveal much more about the attacker than the attacked.

No wonder all parties struggle to attract people of great quality to politics, since who would want to be depicted as the Conservative attack machine does about two highly intelligent, committed men such as Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Layton?

What attack ads do, therefore, is degrade discourse and turn all but the sharpest partisan into someone revolted by the entire world of politics. The Liberals began running hard-hitting television ads Friday, but at least they stuck to issues, not personalities.

We, as citizens, might hope for political leaders who inspire, or at the very least act as we would wish to act ourselves, with some measure of civility and mutual respect. [/i]

(Emphasis is mine.)

I'm with you, Molly. I know that there's some evidence that they work but the fact that that they work doesn't mean they SHOULD be used! I also remember how the Liberals used the tactics first against the Reform Party, not always with actual ads but certainly with very effective "whisper campaigns". I mean, there's no way so much negative stereotyping of the typical Reformer could have arisen on its own! The hand of a Warren Kinsella type seems obvious.

Yet to me, it still doesn't matter. Such ads seem mean-spirited, rude and low-brow!

I just don't like them, from any party. Somebody should take the "high road" and I would hope Canadians would reward them for it.

Edited by Wild Bill
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I'm with you, Molly. .... Such ads seem mean-spirited, rude and low-brow!

I just don't like them, from any party. Somebody should take the "high road" and I would hope Canadians would reward them for it.

:)

The words are those of Jeffery Simpson, not mine. It's a fine rant, spot on, deserving of a salute, and a resounding, "Hear, hear!"

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"Well, the Liberals did it too!"

Is this really an excuse?

It's an explanation. The Liberals have been doing it for years against them. Why such indignation that they do the same in response?

Do you feel similarly indignant that the Liberals have no rolled out their own attack ads?

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Can you point out a few examples of Liberal attack ads? I, for the life of me, can't recall any. Thanks appreciate it, I may be seeing this issue in a onesided manner.

I would if there was any way to do so, but so far as I'm aware there is no facility which stores ads from previous election campaigns, particularly campaigns from ten and fifteen years back.

I think most of us of a certain age remember the "scary scary" campaigns the Liberals launched against the Reformers, though.

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k, so I watched both ads. They seem to be attacking policy not Harper personally. I don't think that either are what anyone would deem an attack ad, am I incorrect?

Yes.

An attack ad is just that. Rather than touting your own platform, policies, ideas or candidate, you attack the other guy's platform, policies, ides or candidates.

You don't say your policy will save the country, but that the other guys policy will destroy it. The Liberal campaign and advertising against the PCs 7cent gasoline tax would be an example.

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Liberals have all kinds of attack ads. My favorite is the soldiers in our streets ads.

Another great one is the 2004 ad which starts out with "Stephen Harper would have sent our troops to Iraq," If that disqualifies you from being PM then I guess all the Liberals would be voting for Jack this election. Funny how the Liberals flip flop over only 6 years.

Edited by punked
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It's an explanation. The Liberals have been doing it for years against them. Why such indignation that they do the same in response?

Do you feel similarly indignant that the Liberals have no rolled out their own attack ads?

No, it's not an explanation. Especially considering the fact that the CPC came to power promising a newer and more open style of politics. Instead, every time they've acted like previous Liberal governments, all we get is "oh, well the Liberals did it first." Considering they ran on NOT BEING LIBERALS, can't you see what pile of horse shit non-explanation for what it is?

I don't disagree that the Liberals have been doing it for years and I've never liked it. I'd say the new ads are negative but to call them attack ads is a little much. They're not drive by smears of Harper's personality as has been done in the past. They focus on his policy agenda. I don't think they should do it period but then again they don't listen to me.

Edited by nicky10013
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Liberals have all kinds of attack ads. My favorite is the soldiers in our streets ads.

Another great one is the 2004 ad which starts out with "Stephen Harper would have sent our troops to Iraq,"

:lol::lol:

If that one is an 'attack ad', then so are all the ads in which the Conservatives describe their own policy. Let's see... it says the Conservatives would have sent troops to Iraq, want to spend billions of dollars on tanks and aircraft carriers; weaken gun laws; scrap the Kyoto accord, sacrifice Canadian healthcare for US style tax cuts; not protect a woman's right to choose. and that Stepehn Harper was prepared to work with he BQ.

Are you sure they weren't just reading verbatim from the Con website?

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:lol::lol:

If that one is an 'attack ad', then so are all the ads in which the Conservatives describe their own policy. Let's see... it says the Conservatives would have sent troops to Iraq, want to spend billions of dollars on tanks and aircraft carriers; weaken gun laws; scrap the Kyoto accord, sacrifice Canadian healthcare for US style tax cuts; not protect a woman's right to choose. and that Stepehn Harper was prepared to work with he BQ.

Are you sure they weren't just reading verbatim from the Con website?

All Iggy's positions by the way!

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Yes.

An attack ad is just that. Rather than touting your own platform, policies, ideas or candidate, you attack the other guy's platform, policies, ides or candidates.

You don't say your policy will save the country, but that the other guys policy will destroy it. The Liberal campaign and advertising against the PCs 7cent gasoline tax would be an example.

There's a difference in attacking policy and attacking someone specific. I find absolutely nothing wrong with attacking policy.

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