buffycat

Kuzadd, have you been talking to the toaster too??? *snicker*

Eyeball, many thanks for posting this article. It is a rare example of rational thought, positive in its tone and refreshing in its dialogue. Instead of the usual 'us vs them' mentality printed overwhelmingly in right wing rags of the west, this article adopts an inclusive and egalitaran approach to the idea of blending cultures and communties. Wonderful ideas, whose time has long come! Thanks again - I'll be certainly forwarding this one off to others!

Oh come on Morris, we all know it's your microwave that you confer with and not the toaster. Of course, what is less known is that your first stick your head in it and then turn in on - I guess this increases the volume so you can hear its all powerful humming voice! For those who think that the likes of Kissinger, various Rockefellers, leading CEO's of huge monopolies (ie coca-cola, KBR), monarchs and the like have NO influence, well... you might want to check your micro power setting as it's possible that brain liquification has indeed occurred!

Well, now I have some time and will make my response to this certainly one-sided thread! First, I'll state, unequivocably that I condem the massacre as I would any other 'school' shooting. My thoughts go out to all those affected. Secondly, I would however, like to point out the amazing double standard which was applied in the media coverage of this tragedy. While just last week over 100 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces in the Gaza Strip (note there were also over 26 killings in the West Bank), this attack on the Yeshiva (like a seminary) has garnered non-stop attention on ALL the major news outlets. False reports on who was really behind this have led the way! Knee-jerk responses of 'Hamas' did it, were the order of the day - until lo and behold - we find that they DID NOT do it... okay. Rewind, start over: The killer Hated ALL Jews, The killer speaks for ALL Palestinians - over and over adinfinitum! Every pro-Israel talking head was interviewed! "They hate us because we are Jewish", the mantra goes - on and on. No mention that who ever did this - might, just might have been a little ticked off with the way he's been treated for years, or for that matter no mention that this MAY have been a lone nutbar, acting solely on his own accord. (which seems to be the case). No, never mind the context in which these things happen, deplorable as it is. Much easier to simply put the blame on and entire group and begin the next siege and incursion. Oddly, this attack plays into the hands of the aggressors in the Likud/Military controlled Israeli Admin - it gives them yet another excuse to continue to inflict collective punishment on and entire population. IOW - thanks you crazed gunman - you've given the warhawks carte blanche to go murder more innocent civilians. How ironic, that the benefactor of this disgusting crime is Israel herself. Which also brings up the odd fact of how convenient the timing of this tragedy is. With the eyes of the world focused on the events in the Gaza Strip, Israel's image tarnished and blackened by the killings of so many children in such a short time, this attack has now set Israel back into the 'victim' seat. The media cries: Poor Israel! Look at these terrorists - as if ALL Palestinians are just like this sick person. Ahhh well - par for the course. Double standards reign and in the end the real tragedy - the saddest part of all - is that few will see the anguish of people who have lost loved ones as simply that. Instead of these people deaths being used to further a move towards some kind of reconciliation - they will no doubt be used as a reason to intensify violence, increase the death toll and further the state of hate and war. This of course will be done by both sides - but in this disproportionate conflict the greatest losers will be ordinary Palestinians and ordinary peaceloving Israelis - who will see the divide widen and the possibility of some kind of rational settlement become even more slim. Shame of this sick fellow, Shame on the IDF forces targetting civilians, shame on all the government reps on both sides of this tragedy.

This post is against board policy. Not only that it is pretty stupid too. Layton on Dobbs That's the link if anyone is interested... not the soft in the heads who posted above obviously.

Trex, I think all your ideas are really good ones! Do you garden? Can your own produce? Make jam, chutneys, preserves? What fun and a wonderful sense of satisfaction - not to mention great for socialising with friends and family as well. In this consumer driven world I think we miss out on all these 'small' things that not only give us more independence but also foster relationships - between family members and of course friends. Buying everything already made, already processed is not only unhealthy, wrt foods, but also very non personal. Farmers markets nearby, offering locally grown and raised produce helps to support our local economies. Shopping (when one MUST) at vendor owned smaller stores also improves community and again local economies. I think all your ideas are wonderful, and strictly speaking for myself I do all these things and to be honest - don't buy alot of crap - period. Oh - and I like to sew too!!

The Founding Fathers would easily have been considered terrorists by the occupying Brits....

Brits beat Iraqis This is specially posted for those who seem to think I only pick on the Yanks. Well... I don't. In fact, as I have stated often I think the US has been hijacked by corporate/banker gangsters and they have set about shredding the most beautiful document every produced by a young democracy: THE US CONSITIUTION!! But, never mind all that - it seems that the Brits are also winning hearts and minds whereever they go!! This is just as sick and depraved.

Ahhh yes the morality of the US military...wait I thought Israel had the most moral military in the world!! pffft... Here - some more wonderful Amerikunnns: American Troops going Insane Going?????? bahahahhahahahahahaha!! I'd say they're pretty much GONE!!! So, soon these assholes are going to be coming home - most likely to a police force near you!! Have fun getting beaten up, tasered and shot. Nice guys all 'round!! AW - you seem to think this is just 'one or two', sorry - it's alot more than that. This is what happens when you ask your soldiers to fight in an illegal and immoral war. Hearts and minds eh? ugly americans.

The usual Bullshit from Dancer and his ilks... If YOU know that the building you are targetting is full civilians and you target it anyway - YOU ARE TARGETTING INTENTIONALLY CIVILIANS. BTW - you don't have to bother even asking the Palestinians (in Gaza OR the West Bank) - you can ask the Lebanese as well, among others. Do you ever write truths or only your spinning crap??? I'll repost for you: B'Tselem I would suggest you READ the WHOLE SITE and grow a neuron at the same time. (not holding my breath) Edited to add another article from the Guardian, here I've hightlighted a paragraph which should shine some light on really WHO is being 'pushed into the sea' (pffffft *spit*)

So... you are saying what?? That this is not an American soldier? Well... it seems he is based out of Hawaii: Puppy abuse video investigated by Hawaii Marine base

Well done Israel!! Over 100 tarrorist Palis killed!! Whooopeeee!! Half of them civilians - you know those terrorist babies?! I gues the Holocaust of the Gazans is proceeding as planned!! Nice one, get em killers!! http://www.btselem.org/english/Press_Releases/20080303.asp 3 March 2008: Contrary to Israel's Chief of Staff, at least half of those killed in Gaza did not take part in the fighting B'Tselem expresses grave concern at the large number of children and other uninvolved civilians among those killed and wounded in the Gaza Strip in recent days. According to B'Tselem figures, from 27 February to the afternoon of 3 March, 106 Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip. Contrary to the Chief of Staff’s contention that ninety percent were armed, at least fifty-four of the dead (twenty-five of them minors) did not take part in the hostilities. In addition, at least forty-six minors were wounded. ***

There is an interesting video making the rounds: The Clinton Chronicles If even HALF of what is in this is true (released I think in 1995) it is pretty frikin' daming!! Why would the Americans even want another crime family in charge?? Bush Clinton, bush clinton - and on and on. ugh.

Good thing you aren't posting that in Germany - it would be off to the slammer for you!!

This is just sick. You all know what they say about people who enjoy being cruel (understatement) to animals: LINK I guess making kids chase trucks for water, and of course not letting them get any, or raping of 14 year old girls then slaying them and their innocent families just isn't enough for some folks. What will happen when this sick twisted f***gets back to the US? Does anyone think he will suddenly become a nice person? A 'Brave and honourable' soldier - to be praised for defending democracy??? sick sick sick sick. Throw him of a f***** cliff.

This bears repeating - time and time again. Zionism, in its current manifestation, nor as in its early beginnings, does NOT represent all of Jewry. Not by a longshot. Yet, the belief that fundamentalist Zionism was representative of ALL Jews, certainly could be considered a big factor as to why virulant REAL anti-semitsm (the hatred of Jews for simply being a Jew) was so easily flamed into a bonfire by the Nazis. Again, a simplistic 'US vs THEM' atittude, which ignores the individual in favour of reducing all people into handly little grouplets! (So much easier to annihalate that way - faceless groups of 'them'.) Nothing changes - Israel does it to the Palestinian people now. The so-called Western Leaders do it to the 'Muslims'. The beat goes on.... (edited for spelling)

WRT Laws of Return (or Repatriation), here is the section from Wiki (sorry about that) for Germany. I remember the influx of many Eastern European Germans, the red cross had set up shelters for ethnic Germans to emigrate to (at that time West Germany). There was quite a controversy over it, as I recall. Still is as far as I know (obviously, I no longer live there - so I don't have my finger on the pulse of the nation!) Socred: No, you won't. This is a problem, and I believe is what leads to frustration over the Holocaust narrative as it is set out today. Sadly, the genocide of Jews during the second world war is now being used to halt all discussion over some of the more draconian and outright inhumane policies of the Israeli Government. This, to me is disgusting - the children of Holocaust survivors use the deaths of their ancestors and suffering of millions to justify doing the same to others. They have become what they hate. It's tragic - it is also very sad that those Jews who DO NOT support the occupation, DO NOT support the oppression of others are given little voice - or are smeared to an even greater degree by the 'fundamentalist zionists', in whose eyes Israel can NEVER do wrong. Keep in mind I do NOT equate all of Jewry to be represented by the actions of Israel. That is as big mistake - and morally reprehensible. This kind of thinking ends up with the deaths of millions - look at present day Iraq, Afghanistan - and soon to be Iran (trumpetted on by gee - the US and Isreal!!). I keep the peoples of land separate from their governments - who rarely - if ever - act in a manner truly beneficial to their populace.

LOL

With discussion of whether Castro should be tried for war crimes/crimes against humanity in another sub forum, I thought I'd chime in with the posting of this video link: The Trials of Henry Kissinger While not an overt fan of Hitchens, this is quite an extraordinary historical video, and certainly a must see for younger folk (those who don't recall the war in Vietnam, nor the associated problems in Cambodia as well as the turmoil instigated by the US under the authorship of Kissinger in Chile.) Well presented and argued. I only wish that old Henry wasn't the spitting image of my uncle... So, should Kissinger be tried for crimes against humanity? Keep in mind he's the dude who wants to see food used as a weapon.

socred: Seems Ben-Gurion agrees: A month after the Nazi pogrom against Germany's Jews, famously known as Kristallnacht, Ben-Gurion provided an interesting mathematical formula for saving German Jewish kids. He stated in December 1938: "If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter----because we are faced not only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the historical accounting of the Jewish People." (Righteous Victims, p. 162) Here is another link to the collaboration of the Zionists with the Nazi regime, a review of Brenner's 51 Documents: 51 Documents excerpt: Avraham Stern and his followers announced that "The NMO (National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi)), which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that: 1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO. 2. Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and, 3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East. Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany's side." *** So, one can say with certainty that war makes for strange bedfellows. For those interested the entire book is available here. To add by edit: This poll is stupid as it is quite clear that a holocaust did happen to the Jews, communists, roma, gays - anyone who disagreed with the facsist nazi state. Whether it be 6 million or 1 million is pretty much irrelevant. The problem IMO arises as to the version of events which led to the deaths and the causes of the deaths as well (some by extermination, others due to disease).

So, no one thinks that Hillary's drop in popularity has nothing to do with her ties to organised crime, murderers and thugs, along with the oh so many questionable donations to her ubercampaign??

Since both Canada and the US have always helped one another out in times of emergency - one must begin to question what exactly this 'new' treaty intends - ie what kind of 'civil' emergency? There was no need to create this binding document - except perhaps as mentioned before in this thread to circumvent the Posse Comitatus laws in the US. So, that makes two agreements that our 'oh so transparent' Harper Government has now signed - without any debate or mention to the public. The first being the deal with Israel wrt 'security' (one must ask: whose security???) and now this one with the US warmonger Admin to the south of us. Geez if we keep this up Canada will be unrecognizable as a soveriegn nation. (Which she most likely already is).

The Haganah was an umbrella organisation for the various Zionist militias of the day. Some were pretty nasty and others not so much. After establishment of the state of Israel, everything was pretty much combined to form what we now know of as the IDF. The Irgun itself was considered a terrorist organisation, and was led by Menachim Begin, whose rich history in Israeli politics cannot be denied! Contacting the dormant Jewish underground, Irgun Zvai Leumi, Begin set about planning a Jewish uprising against the British authorities. This began in 1944, but increased in pace and scope immediately after World War II and continued until late 1947. Begin ordered many of the Irgun's operations, including the Akko prison breakout and the destruction of the central British administrative offices in the King David Hotel. Following the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Begin disbanded the Irgun. Hence to say there is no connection between the IDF and the early terrorist groups is beyond naive... Now, tell me again what this has to do with the current collective punishment of over 1.5 million people? (Not mentioning the state of affairs within the West Bank here either - though Palestinian discontent and despair if rife there too!). Certainly you don't believe that every single one of them is some sort of 'terrorist' do you? Tell me you aren't that delusional and you have the ability to separate a ruling body from those who it rules - who may disagree with its actions.

See? More diversion wrt the original topic - the siege of Gaza and collective punishment. Typical misdirection. That said, no one here has denied the Mufti!! I promise - I am not a Mufti Denier!! Still - this has little to do with the current actions of the Israeli administrations. Using the Nazi link is so weak. Ummm, where dear Dog, have I ever said I support them? Hmmm??? Care to quote me on that puppy?? As far as Pallywood goes, my sources are pretty much all mainstream and often Israeli in origin - but don't let that stand in the way of a lovely adhominen - again using weak diversion tactics!! Also, typical of those who cannot support thier position with facts.

While not a fan of Hitchens I will have to agree with him here. Though, I would add that religion is also adult and teen abuse as well. Heck, it plain abusive and divisive - and has little or nothing to do with true spirituality and the reality that we are all brothers and sisters in one family: Humanity. Organised religion is the bogeyman your parents used to get you to behave in certain ways (note not all parents choose this method of child rearing: read FEAR). It is paternalistic and reduces the individual. It is NOT, as I said above spiritual - it is a power based control mechanism, used by a few over the many.