buffycat

I don't think this latest NIE report will make any difference whatsoever. The sights are clearly set and neither Israel or the US seem able to think clearly of the very real repercussions of any pre-emptive military strike. Those here who seem to outright reject the role that Israel plays in this drumming for war are missing a very key ingredient. There have been to date far more calls for outright attack against Iran coming from the right in Israel than even the neoconservatives which riddle the ranks in the US Admin. Here is a typical example of such an article about those infamous 'think tanks' screaming out for war. I haven't found an American source commenting on this yet. Keep in mind that Iran is really NO threat to the US, outside of perhaps cutting off oil resources, or dropping the dollar and establishing their own oil Bourse. (This has been spoken of, but seems to have been shelved for the time being). On the other hand, Iran 'may' post a small threat to Israel but IMO, not in the way in which it is heralded in the propaganda machines of the bureaucracy and media - not it won't be a 'wiped off the map' scenario, though it could be a slow negative influence via funding of supposed terror organisations - who if we are to be totally objective - are not much different that the funding of 'freedom fighters' the various Western Interests. An outright attack on Israel is suicide for Iran - she is not stupid. Also, keep in mind that Iran does have economic relations with both Russia and China (both currently being vilified to the nth degree in our msm and admins). It is clear, and has been stated by both - that an outright military attack against Iran by the US/Israel would be considered and attack against them as well. IOW - by taking the road of war, via a pre-emptive attack, we would be engaging both Russia and China in various ways. Both lands could pound the last nail into the coffin of the US - without any military action - they could crush the already depressed American economy by various economic means (ie dumping outright their dollar holdings). Not a good scenario. Here is an excerpt from the above article:

Not sure about the ambassador thing, seems odd though. Yeah, here is the jpost link: Israel, Canada sign security accord I posted it here a while back.. you can search if you like. Here is the Globe article: YOU GOTTA PAY FOR IT Which is totally lame, since it was in the regular sections when it came out. I should've saved it, but I didn't. All very cloak and dagger (probably because most Canadians would question whether aligning ourselves so closely with Israeli policies is in Canada's best interests). IMO they are NOT. Edited to add the link to the first thread I started on this: Found on Google

1 in 5 people in Canada are now immigrants >>> So What???????

Okay, I tried the search feature, and found this old thread. I know Charles doesn't want mulitple threads on the same topic - so this one will have to do!! I wanted to share this little gem of a video: Doublespeak 101 It's only four minutes, includes the latest throne speech from Manitoba and reveals the lies and liars who sadly govern us. Wake up folks - this is NOT a conspiracy (or maybe it is!! ), this is quite real along with all the implications. About the only reason I would want to be an American would be to vote for Ron Paul in the upcoming primaries and election - at least he recognizes the danger in such a Union and is against it.

Current modern definition of anti-semite: Anyone the Lobby doesn't like. Here is a list of the worst kind of anti-semite, those nefarious self haters!!! S.H.I.T. LIST

Perhaps, but Israel REALLY wants to!! If she does, the American President has already pledged that NO MATTER WHAT the US will support Israel (read: American kids will die for Israel). Also, keep in mind that Peter McKay has recently signed 'something' with Israel which most likely commits our government to blind support as well. (This was VERY hush hush in the Canadian media and wasn't even reported here until a week after it coming out in Jpost. Since then there has been silence, as well as a little back peddling and lying. So...no Bush might not do it - but if Israel gets her way the Americans will be there.

Oh come on Scotty!! We all know that you are the biggest victim here of all!! What with all those brown people making your life so darn miserable!! ahahahahahah! Gag me with a spoon baby

Who died and made you mod?? Here, I'll post the link (which is really easy to find by pasting the title into google!!!) Five myths that Sanction Israel's War Crimes There see - how easy was that? Or... could it be... that you didn't happen to like what you read in Cook's article? Why? He speaks the truth, rather harshly yes, but sometimes truth hurts sunsettommy. Instead of wanting to censor - yes censor - this article you could easily have simply told Aras that on this board, links should always be added and only part of the article should be quoted. Instead your comment is quip, juvenille and kinda whiney!!!

While I don't advocate the style which Aras has used here - what in the world does the above mean? Are you insinuating that since he is Pakistani his is by default hypersensitive? That's rather bigotted of you isn't it? (Note: I am not calling YOU a bigot - just your post above and it's inference).

It's more than that Dancer - and I think you know it but won't admit that you are wrong!! Here is an article by Amira Hass, who writes for Haaretz - I think you may want to read it before shooting your mouth off again! Palestinians Are Being Robbed by Israel "By taking their meager - but undoubtedly their own - revenues, Israel does not punish Hamas or persuade it to change its positions. It simply gives the Palestinians another reason to regard Israel as an aggressive and repressive occupying power." Her last paragraph above sums it up very well. Of course, I imagine you will have problems with Hass as she tends to call a spade a spade, while to you the spade is a fork.

Rue, just want you to know that I am not in the same camp as the kengs of the world - to me he is in the same groups as radical Zionists, Neo Nazis and Radical Mullahs. People are people, and MOST just want the freedom to live and love. Sadly - wrt Israel she is currently occupying another's land - and with that comes tension. Tension from those who are occupied and simply are exercising their inherent right to fight the occupiers. This of course leads to more tension as some Israelis don't want to admit that what their government is engaging in is simply wrong from any humanitarian standpoint. NOTE Rue: I say SOME - not all. As B'TSelem, ICAHD, and the countless other Israeli organisations who fight tirelessly and bravely for the rights of the Palestinians proves.

What kind of response what that? I guess you can't rebut anything that I have posted can you? wrt fishing, borders etc - so you state this lame point? They are the elected government so, they should have the right to collect taxes. That said - since pretty much everyone in Gaza is now broke they won't be collecting much at all. With the coming cutting off of all fuel and electricity to Gaza expect things to become even worse. Way to go Israel! Winning hearts and minds and making everyone love you!! If some Gazans didn't hate the Israeli Admin before, they sure have good reason to now. Bahhh!!

Where do these numbers come from Rue?

You really have NO clue do ya Dancer? Israel holds all the pursestrings - they collect the taxes and redistribute it to the PA - which they halted for a long time after the election of Hamas. If you had any clue, you would also know that part of what Hamas has done is run many humanitarian ventures - of course it is only their 'terrorist' activities which make the news cycle over here (hmmm I wonder why?!). The also can't build a port because Israel won't let anyone into the water - good grief learn a little will ya? Here read this before you make such uniformed quip and inaccurate comments: 25 Feb. 07: Israel prevents all boats and fishing off the Gaza coast According to new research by the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem, since June 2006, Israel has forbidden all boats, including the movement of fishing boats, off the coast of the Gaza Strip. The prohibition has seriously harmed the fishing sector, which provides a livelihood for many residents of the Strip. Fishermen who violate the prohibition risk being shot at by Israeli Navy craft. In addition to the use of gunfire, in recent months, Israeli forces have adopted a practice of harassing and humiliating the fishermen. B'Tselem learned of many cases in which Navy crews stopped fisherman in the open sea, ordered them under gunpoint to undress, jump into the cold water in their underwear, and swim to the Israeli vessel. The crew then took them to Ashdod Port for questioning. Following many hours, and sometime a full day, at the port, they were returned to their boat. In some cases, Israel returned the fisherman to the Gaza Strip via Erez Crossing. *** It's from B'TSelem again - great people.

You know Rue, I'd be far more inclined to discuss things with you if you 1. used a less accusatory tone and 2. Didn't write a frikkin' novel. Do Jews spit on Christians in Israel? Uh yeah they do. Has this been a problem for a while - yes it has. Is it rather disgusting? Yes it is. Pretty simple - you shouldn't spit on folks. Now, did I say anywhere that ALL Israelis are running about spitting on Christians - it is also quite clear in the article that these perps are mostly Yeshiva students - which of course makes them fundies to begin with. All religions have em - I wish they would keep em too (perhaps in a dark cellar somewhere and not let them out). Is it not possible for you, Rue, to at the very least admit that sometimes, yes sometimes Rue, Jews can do nasty things too?? After all, they are all just human like the rest of us aren't they? And as humans some individuals are simply not too nice. If this was Muslims spitting on Christians there would be rabid outrage expressed on this board - but hey - according to Rue - they deserve a pass simply because they are Jewish? Gimme a break... ugh.

Here goes try two!! Hmmm space bar worked, didn't automatically post to forum - good I guess. Now, I would love to see this post get back onto topic. Which is: The effect of the Occupation on Gaza's Children. Some here have said that since Israel 'withdrew' from Gaza that the Gazans have only themselves to blame for the current seige (which is what it is). This of course is utter nonsense. While Israel did indeed dismantle illegal settlements in Gaza, they maintained all control over border crossings as well as access to the Mediterranean Sea (very important for the Gazans - not only for food for themselves but also economically). Since Israel still maintains all control over Gaza, in every way, seeing the 'withdrawl' of the settlers as Israel actually leaving is simply wrong. Add to that the democratic election of Hamas (you know the party who the West and Israel don't like) and we have had a recipe for distaster from day one. Many predictions were made, about the impending humanitarian disaster, and many of those predictions have come to pass. Now, we have sick children and elders dying due to the embargo and siege. We have thousands of Palestinians separated from their families, some in the West Bank (also under siege conditions) and others stuck in Egypt. It is quite clear that the Israeli Admins (current and former) do not wish to compromise wrt making peace, they do not wish to give up any of their illegal settlements, refuse to declare their borders and continue to demand outrageous concessions from those they occupy. Until Israel acknowledges that their role as Occupier is in fact doing more damage to Israel than good, we will not see peace - for either Israeli children, or their cousins - the children of the Palestinians. Here, in keeping with the theme of the OP is a short piece by B'TSelem, concerning the plight of Gazan Children with CF: Since Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in June 2007, Israel has almost completely prohibited Gazans to enter Israel or go abroad for medical treatment. The last time the children were treated at Hadassah was in September. Since then, Israel has not permitted them to enter its territory, and the toddlers' condition has deteriorated. Just one snippet out of countless inhumanities.

holy post problem - this went up when I simply hit the space bar... couldn't even start my post!! Wierd. So.... I will start another reply...

This happens because we live in a society where violence is glorified through media. People's natural abhorence to violence has been numbed. No one hardly notices the blood and guts all over the tv/movies etc. It's normal. It's sad. It's the way it is.

And these sorts of things never happen in Canada - nope no pedophelia here.. no sirrreeee!! (Never mind the res schools/Catholic churches usw). It's sick no matter where it happens, but of course Moxie must use this a proof that all Afghans are child abusers eh? What rubbish.

Warman has also recently accused Free Dominion LINK Now, I am no big supporter of the views set forth on FD, but I am a defender of free speech (unlike Mr. Warman). This guy is a menace. I wonder what he would think of ScottSA's posts here wrt Muslims and 'Brown' people - or are they not the 'right' group for his one man complaint crusade? I googled around for Warman after seeing this (I had sorta forgotten about this guy for that last few years and only really knew about his wrt his tirade against David Icke - a harmless nutter to say the least). Here's something which won't be up for long after this pretty pathetic decision by the judge above: LINK excerpt: • Certain political views are outlawed, as in Soviet Russia. For instance, “the Tribunal adopted the view that messages preaching the forced deportation of non-Whites or their segregation from the White population are likely to expose members of these targeted groups to hatred or contempt by encouraging violence as a ‘proactive means of defence against any who were seen as the enemies of racial purity.’ The basic theme of Message 15’s “Critical Facts” list is that the presence and integration of non-Whites in American society is undesirable. The “Bill of Racial Rights” in Message 16 is even more explicit in its assertion that White people should have ‘the right to retain, and defend their own lands, free from immigration, or habitation by members of other races, including the right to live in all-White neighbourhoods and to send their children to all-White schools, i.e. segregation.” So, apparently, calling for racial segregation on the Internet is now an offence.” (gosh I've heard the same sentiments voiced here over and over again!! Quick someone get Mr. Warman on the line!! So he can sue MLW too!!) Hmmm I wonder... by linking this here will Greg now have to answer to Herr Warman and his shiney boots? Sickening. Free speech in Canada? Not on your life.

Well, it's certainly about time that the pasta patriarch be granted equal time in religious theorising!! Pasta Monster Gets Academic Attention ""We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it," Henderson wrote. As for scientific evidence to the contrary, "what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage."" *** LOL!! Well, in all honesty the FSM is just as real as the big Daddy in the Sky!

Could you possibly be more of a jerk? (Note: I didn't call you a racist or a bigot - nor the other name I have for you.) I understood him quite well - having family who survived the Holocaust as well. So I'll tell ya again Scotty: Kindly P*** off with your cheap immature insults. (oh I forgot - that's all YOU have to offer!!)

Well, I do use a shovel - just as the police use a taser. If someone were to 'attack' me while I had my shovel and I killed him - would I not be charged? I think you failed to see the analogy. Just because they have the taser - does NOT mean free reign to use it. To me I question the training these officers recieved wrt the taser's use. There is NO excuse for what these cops did - in less than 25 seconds the guy was DEAD. Did you even watch the video? There was NO attempt to revive this man, there was NO attempt to find anyone who could communicate with this man in his own language - for this certainly the airport staff themselves hold part of the blame. Yet, when the so-called professionals show up - it's tase first - and better NOT ask questions later. No - I didn't say I did. I said they SHOULD be charged - for not exercising due diligence in using a potentially deadly weapon at the very least - leading to manslaughter. There is a dead man - who harmed NO one. Four fully trained RCMP couldn't deal without using the taser? Gimme a break - that IS laughbable. The cops were testing their new toy! Sick buggers plain and simple. Not a good sign wrt our police forces in Canada. Though it does send a message doesn't it? Your papers please.... Oh and btw American Woman - I am surprised that you are siding with the police apologists about this - kind of out of character from your other posts. Sometimes - taser use might be justified - in this case - clearly it WAS NOT.

Good point. I hear you loud and CLEAR.

Pardon for the offtopic post, but this is directed to GostHacked. Have you looked across the river for property? The prices are FAR more reasonable than in Ottawa and with the improvements made recently to the infrastructure the Quebec side is far more accessable. You can get a good bang for your buck and establish your mortgage credit at the same time. Around the Lac de Feis (sp) there are some wonderful places - all pretty much walking and biking distances to downtown Ottawa. Too add: I agree with you Mountain Man - 1200 sq ft is by far enough space for three!! I hate monster homes Too much cleaning!!