Well, Rue as far as the lie goes - iirc about Dr. Finkelstein's visit to the West Bank being arranged by Hamas - then show me where I was wrong to call you on that (note absence of too over the top personal insults and inneundo on my part as well). Sheesh.
You have defined many Jews as self-haters (or to use your ramped up version self-loathers ohhhhhh) who do not see eye to eye with the Israeli Administration's actions in the Occupied Territories. Never have I seen you support any of those brave men and women who do work for peace and understanding, and who are (much to your disgust it seems) Jewish. I have often mentioned others, people like Uri Avnery, Ilan Pappe, Israel Shahak, Ben Halper, Amira Hass, Gideon Levy - the list is truly endless including all the honourable men and women at organisations such as B'TSelem, Peace Now, ICAHD, and all the other truly positive forces in the fray. I guess they are all self loathers to you.
Nonsense Rue, of course he makes reference to these stereotypes - they have to be discussed as it is the only way to rid ourselves of them all 'round. There are, despite what you may think, some pretty nasty people with a little power out there who call themselves Jews, Christians and Muslim. These individuals hide behind the religious cloth of their own choosing - yet do not and are not representative of the vast majority of others who may also identify with some particular 'G-d'. Are you saying Rue, that there simply couldn't be exploitation of Jewish suffering during WW2 going on simply because Jews wouldn't allow their own elites to act that way? Or are you saying that no Jew has ever exploited another? What a massive generalisation, and what a massive error on your part Rue.
What Finkelstein is saying is that the tactics of some of these exploiters plays into the hateful lies of true antisemites (no different than any other kind of ethnic hatred) by actually being scum sucking fraudsters. Even you must know about how much of the monies earmarked for Survivors and their families has been pilfered by various lawyers and bureaucrats along the way. Many survivors barely see any of it.
As for the Holocaust being used to manipulate the world into supporting Israel, one cannot separate the creation of Israel from the devastation of the Holocaust - they are part of one another. To deny this is fool's errand. It has sadly also been hijacked often to stop discussions on the rather more questionable actions of Israel wrt the Occupied Territories - that's a fact - plain and simple. So, if you don't like the idea that the deaths of millions is being used to justify an aparthied regime guilty of ethnic cleansing and collective punishment, make a brave start Rue and you stop doing it yourself.
Finkelstein does NOT blame or claim to speak for all Jews. I think he leaves that canard to people like you and Alan. Talk again about sweeping generalisations Rue - it seems for all your kvetching you can't seem to stop doing what you are accusing others of.. *sigh*
Well Rue, since I don't actually subscribe to the train of thought which you are accusing me of, nor does your subjective analysis of Norman's work actually hold any water, the above attempted slur is moot. Though I will ask - do you consider Joan Peter's work as scholarly? pffft, and of course what about Alan's? pfft. lol
I admire those who have to courage to rout our liars and fraudsters - where ever they are found. No group has the corner on the market for telling lies and profitting from them - or gee - are you saying that since these people might happen to be Jewish they would never lie??
I have a problem with the whole label of 'Self-Hatering Jews'. I'd laugh if the whole thing wasn't so damn tragic. Really it's sad on so many levels - but it sure goes along way to diverting discussions and stifling debates - look how you are trying to do this here. Tell me do you contribute and support the SHIT list? You seem to advocate using the term against those Jews who might just disagree with your opinions on the actions of the Israeli governments and their lobbyists. Tell me - if one is a self hater (lol) does that automatically enter one into the club of Anti-semites as well? What about a free ticket to Holocaust Denial - are they included in the one way self loather fare?
Since I don't believe in self-hating Jews (they are up there with the Easter Bunny) and I have actually read Finkelstein's books, as well as attending his lectures, I'll just have to agree to disagree with you wrt your take on Norman. That's fine with me. But to say he is smearing all Jews is ridiculous and a gross over generalisation. Why shouldn't he say his is the son of Survivors - he is. So what? Lots of folks are - does that get one into a special club too? Why shouldn't someone point out when for example, a book is published and found to be a hoax? Should this not be brought to attention? How is that self hating? I think it's more 'hating' of those who give the rest a bad name. If one fraudulent document is out there - then does that not diminish the real suffering endured by the legitimate victims? Sort of like fake rape accusations - it serves to diminish and cast doubt on the real ones. That's not self loathing... what a ridiculous concept, but hey you seem to endorse it all to the nth degree.
Uh... obviously not - if you can follow what I've written on so many occassions - oh I forgot - you don't read what others say you just spin it. Dizzy yet?
Well Rue, it was a harmless visit to a friend. You have failed to show otherwise and attack him only because you happen to disagree with his position wrt Israel and her actions in the OPT. What's new?
I do frequent his website already thanks, hence why I probably know a little more about what his views really are as opposed to the Channelling of Alan you engage in. WRT the Palestinians 'uprising' they have every right to - he has never advocated a violent uprising - quite the opposite. I think it is you who needs to do some real reading and listening to what the man is actually saying, instead of channeling alan all the time.
Now that is just about the most stupid thing you've ever tried to smear me with. Firstly - why drag that poor child into your guilt by random association technique? I have never mentioned her and her terrible fate. Now who is being sinister and manipulative Rue? (holding up a mirror for you to look at).