Rue

Actually your continued reference to me denying global warning is false. I no more deny viruses exist than I do air pollution and the negative effects of both. The fact I question how governments choose to deal with both does not mean I deny viruses or air pollution so enough with the false analogy. I also think your faith in the WHO is misguided and naive. It's no messiah leading your salvation, just a bunch of corrupt inept bureaucrats. I prefer going directly to medical research from immunologists..but hey to each their own way. I have respectful disagreement with you and Z over this..not too much just in the degree of faith in government intervention.

Like you I am questioning it all. I do get it is very dangerous for some but I do think it's not the black plague. I also can not see this shut down going on as long as some suggest. The economy keeps more people alive than any forced isolation. The last couple of days you can feel some politicians growing more power hungry and people demanding crackdowns. What next? Do we call out the army to force people to stay home..really? Man the illuminati conspiracy people are having a field day with this. .....me I just see incompetent bureaucrats caught flat footed but man it's disturbing indeed to see us put under house and somd welcoming it and thinking government totalitarian crack downs stop viruses. Its surreal.

You are making my case to argue we need to get back to work and focus on hygiene protocols and extensive testing. I think that is where we are headed. Indefinite isolation will not stop transmission only delay it. I get they want time to create better protocols I do..but not without clear and realistic time lines. Destroying the economy will kill more people and people will figure that out.

That rumour I think is bullshit. Italy had and has high concentrations of seniors in specific places who smoke. That is all there is to it, likewise, Spain. The need to blame someone provides a quick fix to what otherwise sounds scary to make sense out of it. The only thing that happened is a virus jumped to humans from a mammal through contaminated meat and so our usual herd immunities were not ready for it no differently than with Ebola, swine or avian flu. Any virus needs time to mutate through transmission to become less contagious as is the rule of nature. We humans do not want to wait for that. We think we can stop the virus from moving until presto we come up with a vacine which in effect simply exposes you to the virus but jumps the transmission sequence and speeds up the mutation process to make if less harmful. It's a game we try do, get ahead of natural movementbof disease. There is no government conspiracy its arrogant humans thinking they can kill of or stop a virus instead of learning to channel it and live with it by allowing it's natural progression. The vulnerable will always be there to viruses. Always. So we can learn proper hygiene protocol and better early detection methods to protect them, but our actual treatments will not make the virus go away. Our treatments deal with secondary infections that piggy back on to the virus notvthe virus.and we do have treatments for that. Not all vulnerable people die from this virus. The ones who do have had issues a flu or cold would have allowed opportunistic infections to piggy back onto as well. The death rates assume it's the virus that killed when the underlying reasons for death may not even have been brought in by the virus and I say fgaf because more older people are recovering meaning automatic death because you are old is not accurate. We need to spend more time learning about how our bodies work and react to opportunistic infections not create false and quick theories to explain such phenomena. Think about it, if a country wanted to wipe you out it would and could use far more effective chemical warfare. Next why would China dependent on you buying its shit kill you off..the very people it needs to pay it. ..that makes no sense or cents.

Eye the reporting of cases is not accurate so the comparisons Xul gave care meaningless. This is exactly the problem... throwing out inaccurate stats and drawing conclusions. I again repeat the stats are not accurate as the actual known cases are not reported. In fact what we do know is the US rate is probably lower for the simple reason it has more untreated unreported cases where people already recovered. You are using snap shotc stats from a given moment based on incomplete reports and the stats changes all the tim Xul this virus is not some sort of contest over who dies more...real dumb..this issue is about mortality rates as increased by the virus not death rates. The last sentence please find out the difference. Next the US system has nothing at all to do with Trump. Next it in fact has better detection. Nextccomoaring a country with so many more people to Canada makes little sense. Trump is not thinking about anything most of us already know and that is we can not hide from this virus like we are now. It is not working. It's a panacea to placate your fears. Slowing down a virus transmission is a pr stunt tocalm you down. Eventually this pretense will no longer work. Proper hygiene management and testing is the key not isolation. We now know that. The question is how do we create better reporting and hygiene management protocol and better detection of viruses so we can deal with the issue head on not avoid or hide from it. That is not Trump saying it. Its many doctors now. Creating a police state is not the answer. I Edited this response. I unintentionally wrote it to sound like the info I was debating came from Eye which is notvfair. I meant only to debate the comparison to Eye and Xul nothing else.

Why do I like your posts. YER a nut bag..but lol yer posts make me CD smile every time. You should have done stand up when you got out. I could see you in a bad fitting tuxedo standing next to Frank and Dean makin jokes.

You seem to have a serious issue with people who smoke cigars.

You want disgusting you should smell us up close...

The US is demonstrating efficient report testing and virus containment because of it. Their death rates are much lower than other nations. Also Trump is the only one who has said it and that is-the notion we keep people under house arrest indefinitely is not feasible. Gawd damn it I agree with him. He is refreshing in a world of tongue tied panic stricken bureaucrats damn it to tell you the truth Shady. Gawd this is something. The virus has me in agreement with Trump. Damn you contaminated bats is it.

Well the US is keeping its actual death rates low compared to others. As well Trump has said in not so subtle words-keeping the US locked down indefinitely ain't gonna fly. I am glad he said it. Someone had to. He is being realistic. You can not house arrest the world indefinitely. They have to move to a new approach.

Well history has shown once a freedom is taken away its not given back and we never recover from that but we do recover from viruses. Truthfully I am not going to go out and run up and down the street naked BC but I do have concerns over the long term damage of house arrest to our society.

I am too mature you poohead Sorry could not resist. I am not sure about more mature or level headed but they are but culturally more attuned to following authority yes as they will state. They are used to a prevailing threat of war from next door...went through a devastating war in their very yard unlike us....have had quite a few nuclear scares and have a cultural approach based on less individualism and more totalitarian dictator governments in their past than us.

I think the threat to removing our our basic democratic freedoms in the name of a virus is far more of a threat than the virus.

I do not share your religious belief in social distancing. I think it is unrealistic. By the way social distancing is a politically appropriate word. I call it panic and house arrest.

I blame his wife. Her singing lowered peoples' immunities which triggered all this. Also I blame Celine Dion and Adele for the same reasons. I also blame the Kardashians. They surely spread diseases why not blame them for this one.

The crisis was not "manufactured" but it is questionable how its being managed. However to suggest it was created on purpose is irresponsible. I am the first to question the validity of long term quarantine but to suggest viruses are "manufactured" is idiot babble. Viruses mutate and jump from species as they have been since life has existed.

Ok there has been a lot of talk about the corona virus in Italy and how its mortality rate is now higher than China and using it as a reference to suggest this virus will accelerate and kill us all. Compared to other countries in Europe, specifically Britain, Italy had less time to prepare and it is now believed the virus was widely circulating BEFORE it was detected making the hindsight as to why they were caught off guard more explainable. Next and I had mentioned it before but mention it again Italy has a demographic profile of having more seniors and who live tightly connected to family and friends even if not livng with them and they are more likely to smoke when they are old. 23% of Italy's population is over 65. Add to that the fact their e capacity for hospitals to care for the most seriously ill patients is not the same as in other countries. Interestingly next door, Germany has a population fo 23% over 65 and yet the lowest death rates in Europe from this virus. Interestingly there was a large movement of Italians from the North to the South of Italy in response to the outbreak the last two weeks which would suggest trying to lock down Italians is too late. It does though seem the actual recovery rates remain consistent and the death rates are flattening in Italy although it is crucial to understand comparing Italy to Britain or Germany or Canada is meaningless as we do not have proper early reporting of the illness in any country and especially in Italy with a condensation of older smokers in specific area. That's the problem with jumping to conclusions about any of the stats on the virus. They can not be used to extrapolate accurate cause and effect, recovery or mortality rates. The stats we have only deal with reported cases and the vast majority have never been reported. It is becoming more and more apparent the attempt to slow down the transmission rate bu quarantine or house arrest is going to prove foolish as it becomes apparent this virus probaly circulated and was transmitted far earlier than we thought it was and when it did show up the spread was in fact peaking but we may have delayed a natural peaking and decreasing of the virus by interfering with it raising to its proper levels. The assumption we had to try slow it down to prevent bottle necks at hospitals is ay by day being debunked by status showing no more than 10% of the people with the virus need hospitalization and it may be in future epidemics the key will be not to panic and try lock people down but focus on home care for those who get it with respirators sent to homes. What we are now seeing is some of us will die. We think its the virus but its not the virus, its the result of lowered immunities and chronic medical conditions which are inevitable medical consequences and piggy back on any cold or virus not just the one we now discuss. What we do know about Italy is that it reported 793 coronavirus RELATED deaths last Friday. They determine that rate of course by dividing their total number of REPORTED cases by the total no of deaths. which on that no. I mentioned was 9.5%. Yet. Yet the US for the same relative period had a death rate of 1.2%. So jumping at this death rate is misleading and dangerously so. If the reporting of actual known cases is not done properly, the death rate is not determined correctly. Add to that is the fact that acountry's death rate constantly changes as new cases and deaths get reported, and it continues to vary depending on how many people get tested for COVID-19. My source for the above can be found at: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rates-by-country-based-on-case-fatality-ratio-2020-3 So I again make the following argument and you can also find it in the above article and in many more articles if you want. What we can say at this time is that widespread testing could mean a lower death rate because it could identify people we could then keep away from immune defficient people and the elderly. However this assumpton we must be house arrested from each other makes no sense because most COVID-19 cases — about 80% — are considered mild. Therefore there is no need to isolate us from each other, only from the immune defficient or elderly. The argument I make has been done in South Korea and Taiwan and has worked and we have done it in the past with Sars, Avian Fue, Swine Flu, etc. Yes milder cases go undetectected so transmitted unintentionally to the elderly or immune defficient. So instead of over-reacting and panicking about something not capable of being detected the key is to practice proper hygiene, i.e., hand washing, food preparation. This was and should have always been the case. This idea remaining under house arrest indefinitely is the way to manage this is illogical. It does not deal with the issue of proper hygiene, it in fact avoids the issue until the next outbreak. The idea we could shut down the world economy indefinitely without having a definitive time line is absurd. The amount of damage it will do to the infrastructure that will then go on to kill more people than the virus will make no sense. There are now billions of dollars that would otherwise have gone to medical charities for research that may not go to them now because 90% of the donations come from businesses now not able to generate revenue to pay for those medical research projects. Placing people in debt creates stress related illnesses raising levels of lethat side effects from cancer, heart disease, diabetes, to name just three diseases that skyrocket with stress exposure. In terms of the increase in domestic violence, sexual molestation in isolated locked up families, alcohol and drug abuse it will be hard to estimate but those rates will rise. More importantly this is a real danger to democratic freedoms and civil liberties. Some of you do not understand, if the government passes laws that invade your privacy in the name of disease prevention, it won't stop there, it will also be used for political control reasons. The kind of measures that justify house arresting you in the name of a virus means your freedoms don't come back once the virus ends. There is always a virus . Viruses do not end. I am not buying into the excuse we are trying to avoid bottlenecks at hospitals. I believe some genuinely believe that but I do not believe most immunologists believe that. I believe they believe our governments over-reacted to poor pandemic planning and hopefully we can now learn from such mistakes so we do NOT repeat this. I can tell you the longer people are under house arrest, the more likely they will say enough is enough. We in Canada live in a very sheltered world where we have never had our civil liberties suspended as they are now. Our very basic right of mobility in the Charter poof was gone in less than a day in the name of a virus. Finally lets also be clear on the difference between a death and mortality rate often mistakenly used as meaning one and the same in this matter. "The death rate of a disease is different from its mortality rate — the latter is the number of deaths out of the number of people in an at-risk population. A death rate is not a reflection of the likelihood that a given person will die." source for the above is also: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rates-by-country-based-on-case-fatality-ratio-2020-3 .

Oh man you too? Get rid of those blooze dude. You are like the Fred Macmurray from My Three Sons or Robert Young in Father Knows Best or Dr. Marcus Welby on this this forum man. Do not turn in to Dr. McCoy from Star Trek. In my analogies by the way Shady is a song and dance man from the Lawrence Welk show. You can not get more republican then that. Both of you need to remember the Outer Limits showc where aliens by brought a face deformity virus to the planet. At the end of show the final uncontaminated person gave up her fear and hugged an alien.

It's coming. They will be announced soon coming to save you with a vaccine. Would you take it? You seem to have confidence in your gov. When they tell you to take the shot will you? Me thinks Trudeau is already a zombie.

You can not keep most people under house arrest indefinitely. The very notion is absurd.

I have no need to ban you, the virus or Chinese. I like the boogy man right in my face so I can kiss him on his lips and watch him gimme the death gurgle. COME CLOSER. There I think that about reflects the level of where you seem focused.

It certainly for me raised questions you got to quick thanks and yes....but then this whole response at all levels of government has. Ford is a mouthpiece for others. I do not in these times blame mouthpieces for the powers that be governing them but you bet a lot of it is not making sense. Clearly there are levels of info being held back from us and/or these bureaucrats are even more stupid or disorganized than we give them credit for and are making it up as they go along.

No it is not black and white and shutting down the economy can kill as many if not more people than this virus ever would.

Hunger and thirst drive people to drink their own piss ,eat their own shit , eat dead humans, allow lowlife to penetrate them. All depends on what world you come from. By the way most people who die from a virus are in a coma or morphine induced state. The pain is not the issue, breathing is. ..and please don't get me wrong but I think you are exploiting a fear vision to try make a weak point.

Taxme you could you not have answered the thread with two words, Adolph and Hitler. Here my answer to the thread is no not Ronald Reagan. ..true he had all the ideal qualities of a politician, deaf, senile and a wife who could change his diapers... but it would be Churchill. I like depressive alcoholic curmudgeons who could shove their fist up a Nazi's ass and pull out their souls (sphincter muscles) and shove it back down their throats. Oh Call me a romantic. Runner up Yitzhak Rabin. Same kind of soul as Churchill. Reluctant idealists.