Rue

You sound like a delusional nut case who has been eating too many canned beans that or you want to be Woody Harrelson.

Did America win anything or did the Soviet Union defeat itself years later due to internal corruption?f the US won the cold war why is it still in a world conflict with Russia and China? Was North Vietnam defeated? Also your comparison to fighting Hitler and Ho Chi Minh is lost on me. North Vietnam was not Nazi Germany trying to conquer the world. The domino effect has been proven false. I am not sure what world you live in but it sounds like you took the Green Beret Movie with John Wayne a tad too seriously.

Betsy You are on the forum, so I read your preaching. The fact I reject your preachings does not mean I am not religious, an/or do not believe in God, etc., it simply means I find your need to use the virus as a way to preach your beliefs and try convert people to your belief system manipulative and based on fear mongering.

Argus the KNOWN cases get reported. This means many more have not been. If anything this means the fatality rate is lower than what it appears to be because of that. Deaths will show up healthy recoveries don't, they don't even get reported. What we have been told if we want to listen is that the concern is for the elderly and immune compromised people not healthy or most people. Because its so hard to detect and report hospitals did not want to get swamped by older people or immune defficient people. The vast majority of people have never been endanger. This is about trying to prevent bottlenecks at hospitals. O.k. maybe had the virus been easier to detect the approach might have been different. Maybe its causing economic and psychological problems in the interim but this is from erring on the side of caution for the vulnerable. Each day we know more and more. Each day it becomes more evident the key will probably be to simply wash hands, disinfect, not worry when you get the virus, but be educated enough to know how to avoid spreading it so that vulnerable people can count on us healthy people not to spread it to them by accident. Children are not dying from it. Anti-virals and specific steroids mixed with them seem to be working. Unfortunately for some of us we have pre-existing conditions that make any fungus or bacteria which is not a threat to a healthy person, potentially fatal to these vulnerable people. It has always been that way. As medicine advances, we keep people alive longer but death is part of life and there is a limit to trying to think we can be immprtal. That is what frightens people the feeling of potential mortality. That fear is a spirtual problem not a medical one. Its not helped by fear values, values that teach us to fear death or life. We need to take each day as if its the only day at one level. Our perspective is out of whack and this is just gonna slow the mad world down a bit. It offers a time for people to get a better perspective if they want it to, or they can hide and get all anxious and waste precious time on appreciating life, worrying about a movement of life or destiny that should be welcomed not feared.

Well then what the hell are you doing on this thread....thank you for mentioning it. Since Celine Dion stopped her concerts birds world over have stopped flying into buildings.

He's never left home.

Those are your subjective beliefs...nothing else. You preach using fear. You were triggered by someone suffering from bipolar disorder and currently in a hyper manic phase. You need to understand using religion to try scare people in times of crisis is not helpful to anyone.

Exit from what..life..the forum...the best way to exit from bi polar people trying to suck you intent their make believe worlds is to simply not read them.

I have why do you not read them.Next I have not diagnosed anything I have only presented cause and effect NOT diagnosis. Explaining cause and effect phenomena is not diagnosis.

No it's not. It is fact. The virus can not make someone sick only an opportunistic bacteria piggybacking on it will. A healthy person does not get such bacteria and then need 3 weeks assistance without a pre-existing susceptibility to the bacteria. It is called common sense. Try some.

Again another childish response. No mask, no suit can protect you from your own ignorance of the world. You want to recreate your mother's womb and crawl back in and hide. This is called regression. In the face of what you think is a threat you try curl up in a fetal position. The best treatment for someone like you is to expose you to your boogy man. The government will probably do that soon. The best way to calm you down is to give you the virus. I am serious. People will volunteer to do just that to bring this to an end and ironically shut people like you up.

These are stop gap measures until proper stats are gathered. Whatever ths gov. does you will question what they do. They are just slowing down human movement to get a better chance at reporting who has it since the illness is appearing to be both far more widespread and therefore not as fatal as it appears. It is about trying to track not just the movement but rate of piggy backing opportunistic infections so medical authorities know what to focus on. They probably could have done nothing as well and have people like you accuse them of genocide. Either way people like you will infer negative things.

No there is relatively no panic but there are people like you trying to claim everyone is panicking like you. Luckily people like you prove themselves very quickly to make no sense and if anything to be pitied for their need to drag everyone down into their effluence. Once again you do not think and spew out childish nonsense. Thousands of people already have been exposed and never got sick from the virus. This most likely means we can take the blood of such people and find out why they never got piggy backed by opportunistic infections. If anything it shows so far we may not even need a vacine for most people or we should focus on lung infections not the virus itself. Common sense from you will clearly not happen on this. You just want to spread idiotic childish rhetoric.

There is no vacine for many strains of the flu. You have no accurate death rate as to this virus as the actual rate of people who have had the virus and never reported it or required treatment was or is known. What we do have are stats showing only immune compromised people have gotten sick and even the majority of them have not died. We also have proof children and babies exposed to it are not getting ill. Thus if anything you choose to buy into a panic frame of scenario reflective of someone who is oblivious to the true extent of viruses, flus, common colds around you and thinks this one is any different. The British will soon have sufficient proof to show it is a common virus no worse than what happens every day with the flu. Until then seriously you need to get a hold of your world is ending scenarios.

You do not have the athlete's pre existing medical history and neither does the media. You also have zeromproof hecwas the first case. He may have been the first reported case. You provide classic examples of how hysteria is spread.

Using your logic everyone should wear a hazard suit all the time given the infinite no. of germs in the air. You are panicking and not being rational.

Of course it did not it's not privy to his private medical history. Next the medical conditions you describe happen with a cold or a flu with the same people. The virus you are panicking over does not make that reality go away for such people. You mistake them and their particular compromised immunities with healthy people who this does not happen to because you would prefer to stop being rational and panic.

It is not me it is a medical fact. The virus is not killing anyone opportunistic infections are and there is a huge difference. Opportunistic infections are not all automatically fatal and the best thing we could do is inject you with the damn virus so you would get over it.

Your comments are misleading. The first known case treated might have been the above person but because many people had the virus and never got sick in Italy their illness would never have bee reported so no one can definitively say he was the actual first case. As well the vast majority of Italians with the virus infect have not been hospitalized. Go check for yourself. As for those who have had complications such as this athlete you reported.. you failed ko ed to mention they had a pre-existing vulnerability to certain infections which could have been triggered by many other things as well. No he was not perfectly healthy...he had specific traits that made him vulnerable to lung issues. Bottom line it's not accurate to simply look at the death rate or treatment rate and solely blame it on the virus which is what the media has done.

No they will not. Try use common sense. Old people and immune compromised people do not automatically die when you or they catch a cold or flu. Immune defficient people and the elderly live daily with the reality of catching an infection from far more than just the Corona virus. Think just once. This virus has not changed a damn thing. It is just another. It is not special. The best way to deal with a virus if it's not serious which this one is not is in fact to let people catch it and get over it. In fact it now appears many have had it and got over it but the true turn overrate has not been accurately documented meaning the info we have has wrongfully distorted fatality rates. More to the point the same infections that piggy back on this virus have not suddenly appeared. They are what are called opportunistic infections. They would have presented themselves with common colds, flus. There are literally an infinite no. of opportunities for such infections to present themselves. Stop pretending they only present because of this virus.

You just illustrated yet again you do not understand how growth rates of viruses are extrapolated to come up with analysis of future patterns of increase or decrease. It's so bloody stupid what you pass off at this point it's hard not to have and show contempt not pity for you.Your ignorance is based on your inability to read and extrapolate and refusal to. You are provide a classic case of someone who panics and closes his mind to anything that does not reflect back your anxiety. The moderator saysx void the personal attacks but it is very hard to avoid that at times when people panic. Sometimes good slap in the face is what they need. Can you instead of ignoring how disease rates are properly projected at least once make an effort to try find out how its done. As well when you pass off false assumptions as to extrapolating death rates, the effect of masks, what is going on in Hong Kong, etc., research what you falsely pass off as fact. All you have done is evidence you are in some sort of panic and have suspended any kind of rational thinking. People like you are dangerous. You thrash out and try pull everyone down with you. Viruses are not the problem, hysterical people are.

Here to cheer you up, this is called elephant dung coffee...the elephants poo out the coffee beans which is supposed to make it taste better: I hope this guy washes his hands when he is done. I haven't seen it at Tim Horton's.

Here to combat yet more ignorance as to gathering stats on disease and specifically viruses: https://mathbench.umd.edu/modules/popn-dynamics_exponential-growth/page15.htm Here is a good explanation of what PC thinks is the only way to look at virus rates is: (source for below:https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-03/how-fast-will-the-new-coronavirus-spread-two-sides-of-the-debate) "The term growthers refers to the notion of exponential growth, and indeed the number of Covid-19 cases appears (by some accounts) to be following an exponential pattern. Some scientists have estimated that the number of cases doubles about every seven days. If you play that logic out, it is easy enough to see how people might be complacent at first, then in a few months there is a public health crisis." However it is not that simple.... " The base-raters, when assessing the likelihood of a particular scenario, start by asking how often it has happened before. That is, they estimate its base-rate likelihood. And history shows that major pandemics have lately been rare. The SARS and Ebola outbreaks largely petered out, HIV-AIDS was of a very different nature, and the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics are now distant memories." and... "As for the health-care establishment, epidemiologists understand exponential growth rates very well. But many medical professionals think in terms of what are called “normal” statistical distributions. If someone visits your office with what appears to be a typical flu case, it is usually exactly that. The result is that there is not much surge capacity in America’s hospitals and public-health institutions." I again repeat, exponential math formulas are not necessarily absolute truth or indicative of anything. We have grown to rely on them in a world of computer technology where with computer viruses they can be accurate BUT we are dealing with humans we have for more many intangibles that can impact on the stats including HUMAN ERROR or DIFFERENCE IN REPORTING or just plain old ACCURACY. So I again quote this: "Dr Gregory Gray, an infectious disease epidemiologist and professor at Duke University in the United States, said that without population-based studies, metrics such as pathogenicity, the percentage of those who develop severe disease among the infected, and mortality may not be precise. “I think many epidemiologists suspect the estimates for 2019-nCoV disease severity are a bit exaggerated,” he said, using the official name of the virus. “Metrics like pathogenicity and mortality are falsely elevated because infected people with few or no symptoms are not being counted in the denominators.” source for above : https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3049601/coronavirus-recovery-rates-promising-infectious-disease-expert-says?utm_source=TodayOnline&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=contentexchange What is also known at this time is that very young children who have had this virus did not get that sick or sick at all and so they speculate they may be spreading the virus because no one knows they have it, see: https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/

Oh stop. You even know what exponential growth is when when applied to infectious diseases? Of course not. Stop posing as if you do., Here go to: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/01/exponential_coronavirus.html "Exponential expansion of an infectious disease occurs when the rate of growth is proportional to the number of people currently infected. The mathematical formula for exponential growth is: “xt” refers to the total number of cases, “xo” the number of index cases or the number of cases at the time of mathematical calculation, “r” the rate of disease transmission (the number of people infected by each prior case), and “t” the number of incubation time intervals during the course of an epidemic. In the current 2019-nCoV epidemic “r” has been estimated by an international team of university researchers to be 3.8, and the best estimate for incubation time is 4-5 days, which occurred in earlier Coronavirus epidemics known as SARS and MERS. Read et al. have estimated that only 5% of Chinese cases have been detected and reported, but if we assume that 3 out of 4 cases remain in the incubation period, unsymptomatic, but still contagious toward the end of incubation, we can estimate the current number of cases to be ~8,000 rather than the ~2,000 currently acknowledged by the Chinese government. Read et al. have mathematically predicted about 200,000 cases in China by February 4 using an estimate of 11,341 cases on January 21 and an “r” of 3.8. Using a more conservative “r” of 3.0, an incubation time of 5 days, and a current number of 8,000 cases (6,000 undetected and unreported) there would be 97,000 cases by February 4 and about 100 million cases by the first of March. Assuming the 10% fatality rate seen in SARS, there would be 10 million deaths by March. These numbers are extremely disturbing, but of course depend upon the accuracy of current estimates for disease transmission, incubation time, mortality rate, and an accurate appraisal of unreported cases. The case numbers could be reduced to some degree with strict quarantines and travel restrictions; of course the numbers might even be higher if the Chinese government is underreporting its cases, or if the mortality rate is closer to 35% as seen in MERS. If these estimates are accurate, or even in the right ballpark, it would be wise to place strict limits on, or ban, flights arriving from China." Now read the above and in particular the wording: "these numbers are extremely distirbing, BUT OF COURSE DEPEND ON THE ACCURACY OF CURRENT ESTIMATES FOR DISEASE TRANSMISSION, INCUBATION TIME, MORTALITY RATE, AND AN ACCURATE APPRAISAL OF UNREPORTED CASES. Which is exactly what I explained to you and you do not bother to take the time to find out.

No no and no and try educate yourself on what a virus is. To start with all a vaccine is, is the virus. How the hell do you think it works. They give you a mild exposure to the virus to build up immunities in your system to fight it. The only way to have your body deal with a virus is to build up its immunity system so it can beat the virus. Most viruses, the vast majority, we have a natural ability to fight. When we do not have clear stats on the actual amount of people with the virus, the fatality rate will always seem higher and that is because hundreds and thousands have the virus and never report it because they never get sick from it. Next there is no such thing as "herd immunity". That is your twisted and incorrect misunderstanding of what a vaccine is or what exposing people to a virus that is not dangerous means. You are panicked thinking this virus will kill you. You are hyped up from over amplification on your cell phone and internet of the subject matter and your lack of awareness and understanding of what a virus is. To repeat again, this virus will not kill you. It is only of concern for people with compromised immunities and even then it of course does not and will not kill ALL people with compromised immunities. No statistic is showing that. You have no clue when people die why they have died. Certain bacteria piggy back on a human when we are sick and have no immunities. You have no idea whether the human who is sick would have been exposed to those bacteria and died of them whether they had the virus or not. Many times the piggy backing on makes the bacteria show up faster but it does not mean the bacteria would not have shown up anyways virus or no virus, something you clearly can not conceive. Viruses mutate all the time. Do you know what that means? It means they can become less deadly not necessarily more deadly. Why do you assume its a bad thing. Mutation is an evolutionary process. Everything that is a virus, a bacteria, a life form, mutates constantly. You think this is something dangerous? If it was why are homo sapiens still around? Why have we not become extinct.?Think man...those mutations are part of evolutionary change. Why are you so afraid of change? No one flattens any curve. As statistics become more accurate they always flatten out as the pattern becomes more reported and charted. Its how numbers work as the numbers between the extreme numbers emerge. Its called quantitative statistics. Its not a conspiracy to kill people just the opposite-the more accurate the stats become the more we know where to concentrate funding. There has been above board precautions put in place as we are in the beginning phase of the exposure in many countries. Governments are erring on the side of caution and in the future we will probably look back at this current situation and say we over-reacted and the over-reaction caused more harm than good as it focused attention away from immunity compromised patients to the majority of individuals we should have let become naturally exposed and left alone as we do with colds and flus so we can concentrate on immune compromised people. That is fine. They have new systems in place and this serves as a valuable test on preparation for future viruses as well. This is an inevitable consequence of increased air travel. It is a direct result of people all over the world being so mobile. Disease does not stop at borders. A virus is like the movement of the tide of the ocean. You can not stop it. You can try slow it down with dykes, water walls, dams, barriers but water goes to where water goes eventually and you have to learn to live with its natural movements not fight it unrealistically. Humankind has felt it can rise itself above nature. Viruses are a reminder we can not. Most of us living in cities are scientifically uneducated and totally unaware of the risks around us. We are blind to the environment. Viruses remind us the environment we are blind to has components that can raise issues if we ignore those phenomena or engage in behavior that fights those phenomena unrealistically. No one is going to die because we didn't stop the spread of a cold or a flue or anything else. They die because its part of life, and an inevitable part of life when we get to a certain age. We are not immortal. If this virus makes you feel mortal then deal with it. Deal with the fear of being unable to control. This notion or concept we have we can control everything and feel safe is something we understand with children....but as adults we must show a little calm, a little humility, an appreciation that life has always been precious but we took it for granted. It also means hoarding toilet paper, hiding, thinking this virus will vanish by telling everyone to stay home, is ridiculous. This is not a Bible story where you put lamb's blood on the door and the virus passes you by. This is not a curse from God. It is a process of human beings, homo sapiens thinking we are the only life form that should not and can not die.