impartialobserver

the inputs are easy to define.. you appropriate x amount of dollars. The outputs are number of jobs, amount of income, amount of consumption spending, amount of tax revenue. Depending solely on society to fix this issue (again real or perceived) is simply too nebuolous, vague, and open ended for most that are in politics or care greatly about it. Having an issue and saying that you will do nothing and simply let society solve it..... does not work for most. I wish that this was not the case.. seriously. I also wish that Boise State would win a championship in american college football but I am realistic enough to know why they will not.

Why do we use government to fix issues (real or perceived) in an economy? First, it is faster or appears to be faster. Second, the inputs and outputs can be defined. Depending solely on the free market is nebulous, vague, and can take a very long time (if ever). Now does government intervention really solve an issue? Quantitatively... yes. Qualitatively.. matter of opinion

I can't give actual names or I will dox myself. However, certain high ranking official calls everybody to his house at 11 pm in March 2020. He has all these folks give him input on what will happen if he shuts down the state. 2.5 hours of talking, data, charts, documents, etc. Yet 9 am comes around and he completely ignores all of it. The fallout was epic.

It always amazes me how folks view politicians as heroes and saviors when in most cases... they are not smart. They are confident (irrationally so in most cases) but if you were put their feet to the fire and have them explain the nuts and bolts of what they do and they are clueless. I know... I have seen this in action for nearly 8 years. Trump is another one that is all passion, confidence, self assured, but not all that intellectual IMHO. This is not a shot at just him.. most politicians are like this.

1. It comes down to critical thinking. Buying into something because it aligns with my beliefs/values is not good enough. I need more than that to buy into what someone says. 2. Gut instincts are frequently wrong especially when you do not have all of the information.. not even close most of the time.

relax.. even I can see that he is being tongue in cheek.

You must know my older brother... this is him to a tee

1. off topic 2. Its not about having teammates. It is about acknowledging that you do not have all of the necessary evidence. You seem to be ok with acting and therefore adjudicating based on insufficient evidence. If it is something like not creating a report correctly.. that's different.

1. All government is an exercise in control no matter if it is Dems, republicans, or whatever. However, i am talking about the poster not the politician unless you can't read the first post of mine on this topic. 2. I would rather have inaction due to lack of actual evidence rather than action based on possibly wrong information. It appears that you are ok with being wrong sometimes.

Been to 98% of the places west of Denver even the most remote parts of Idaho, Nevada, Montana, Utah, oregon, and Wyoming. Places that you have not and never will. No, I have not been to West Virginia. I have nothing against the state or those who live in it. It is just somewhat of a quandary how a state with a low cost of living and low cost of housing can have population declines with no real end in sight. The young are leaving and not coming back. Deaths exceed births so that tells you that families are largely avoiding this place. Lastly, they have no in-migration even when their housing prices are 50% or less than that of PA, NY, MA, MD, or DC. Boise was a sleepy little farm town and within 20 minutes in every direction but west.. you were in the middle of nowhere. To the east... the next civilized outpost was 129 miles away. If you traveled north, you encountered the next town of size 1.5 hours away. Lastly, If you went northeast you came to Salmon, idaho at 7 hours. There is no traveling due south of town.. its no mans land. no roads, no trails, no abandoned homes, no ranches... nothing.

1. The topic was hyperbole/exaggeration not control... you have quite the struggle with staying on topic 2. I simply have a higher threshold for what is actually evidence. Could have said, should have said, might have said, did x so therefore must have done y.... is meaningless. Its a good thing though because I adjudicate folks claims and so base my decisions only on evidence that is absolute.. audio recordings, video, payroll records, etc. No filling in the blanks here.

1. So you would say only Leftists use hyperbole and exaggeration? If so, you live in an entirely new world than myself. 2. Conspiracy theories are for the most part what folks do when they do not have the full story. They have bits and pieces and are not ok with that. So what do they do? fill in the blanks with stuff that largely can't be disproven.. not because its legit but because no actual data exists to fully affirm it. Examples are what two people say in private and not being recorded.

Funny how the title says Wisconsin and this deals with Minnesota... LOL

My sniff test when it comes to internet forum posters is simple 1. Do they use hyperbole and exaggeration or are they balanced and exhibit a knowledge of real life. Absolutes such as one group is universally bad is a give away of this. 2. How ardently do they believe in conspiracy theories. Its ok to have suspicion and believe in some but if your whole schtick is based on unproveable conspiracy theories then there is nothing to say to that person. 3. Is their whole schtick based on what they dislike/hate? If so, there is no discussing anything with this person. They are here to vent and could not care less what anyone says.

Except that as a state. WV has the lowest home prices in America. Home prices are a huge part of cost of living. Also (second link).. they are about middle of the road when it comes to taxes. lastly, their utilities are not all that expensive in comparison to others (third link)... So how is their cost of living so expensive? Also, this decline in population predates Biden's term by a decade or so. https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/features/states-with-lowest-home-prices/ https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494 https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/info-2023/average-utility-costs-ranked-by-state.html My guess is that you declare every place/state is not Florida a shithole. You would have said the same thing about my home town, Boise, in the 70's and 80's when it was largely a sleepy western town with most employment tied to ranching/farming and government.

Did you see that link? if you were not so much about being passionate and more rational.. you would notice that is on a PERCENTAGE basis not absolute.. Do you need a demonstration or do you want to continue to look dumb? Also, is the Sierra Nevadas and Ruby Mountains in Nevada.. the Rockies are a bit to the east. Yes, they are moving to ND for two things.... Oil and cheap real estate (in the eastern part of the state). However, apparently the climate is not stopping them. As for WV.. it is simply interesting. Cheap real estate, low crime, and open space has led to ID, NV, UT, MT, ND, and SD seeing population growth. The younger crowd in these states is not leaving and never coming back. In WV, only 6% of the 16-24 age crowd that leaves ever comes back. How do we know? The Drivers license surrender database as of 1994. If a state is so great but offers no jobs.. folks come back home once they have their financial feet under them. So where are they going? Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio, and then Florida in that order.

Maybe this is where I differ from all others in the most obvious... I do not view politicians as heroes or saviors. Just because person X wins election X does not mean that they are worthy of that honor.

"Mostly the terrain is mountains, and not a whole lot of land to build homes on." Did you write this? If so, you are saying that mountainous terrain is the primary deterrent to folks moving to WV? If that is so.. why do they move to NV (https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/01/15/the-most-mountainous-state-in-the-u-s-may-surprise-you/) and ID which is almost as unfavorable in the terrain. Oh.. and get this.. Idaho has a state income tax and percentage-wise is the second fastest growing state in America since 2010 (link below). Did you notice that UT, NV, and ND are also on this list.. If cold is a deterrent than how do you explain ND seeing population growth? https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fastest-growing-states

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/utah/ The only part of UT that is not classic desert is the small portion due NE of the great salt lake. And yet those counties are red.. Hmmm.... Next, my home state of Idaho which has a lot of desert in the southern half of it. Hmmm.. is it red or not? https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/idaho/

Guess what... ID, NV, UT, and MT have way more mountains than WV and yet those states have seen sustained population growth since the 1980's. Thousands have moved to these places and learned to deal with the very mountainous terrain along with deserts, relative isolation, and colder temps (in the case of MT). What is your explanation as to why they would move away from the Midwest, Phoenix AZ, and SoCal for this? Second, if you look at the last few elections.. has the state voted Republican? Yes, overwhelmingly. https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/west-virginia/ Last one.. they are losing population unlike states that have even more oppressive climates. Obviously, there is more to this story. The reason that folks started moving to my home state, Idaho, starting in the mid-80's was low housing cost and open land. WV's home prices are the lowest in the nation and yet no wealthy to do folks from NY, PA, MA, MD, DC.. are willing to buy cheap real estate in WV.. there has to be a reason.

The American West is one of vastness and emptiness in comparison to the eastern parts of the US and Canada. I can be in the middle of nothing (no roads, no houses, no power lines, nada) in as little as 15 minutes. Two freeway exits east and take a left instead of a right and civilization ends. To make the connection... we can have NIMBY because of the open land and emptiness that is both part of the terrain and a selling point.

I think that some of the fixation on Trump is plain and simple boredom. Life is fairly comfortable and easy for quite a few. Complaining about him fills a void.

I do not hate him. I simply do not have much respect for him.

here is why politicos (those who care passionately about politics on a day to day basis) can't be taken seriously. This is pure hyperbole and exaggeration. What percentage of the US population takes their kids to a drag story time? Well, there is no central database for this so all we have is estimation. However, we all know that this is fairly uncommon if you look at the entire US population. I live in a fairly liberal area and they happen 3 or 4 times per year and one has to be connected to a certain nonprofit to even know about them.

You can take this up with @WestCanMan. My point is that saying the same thing day after day with little to no new information is pointless IMHO. The right would go on day after day about HRC.. saying the same thing over and over again. Each time the response to them was the same. Hmm..