Fight the Boycott of Israel

[CITIZEN_2015]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

 incompetent and corrupt governments in other places. 

 

Do not try to undermine or hide the truth by carefully chosen words (like corrupt or incompetence) for those regimes who hate Israel. They are Bloodthirsty and murderous governments in other places is the fact who shoot their own people in the back and there are plenty of videos about that too. So I am asking you again. What do you think these people would do to Israeli civilians if they occupy Israel when they shoot their own defenseless women and children and youth in the back for simply a protest or demonstration?

Edited December 11, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

That is not true. Imagine you are at your home and some guests (under police protection being the British imperialistic power at the time) enter your home as guests and then terrorize you and kick you out and take over your home. Will you fight back or watch the occupation? If you fight back against take over will it be starting the fight or would you say those who came and took over your home started the war? Enough with hate already. Lets have a peaceful solution and end atrocities by both sides so that both Israelis and Palestinians have a land to live in peace. 

 

That's NOT what happened. Learn some actual history of the conflict rather than Arab talking points.

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

That's NOT what happened. Learn some actual history of the conflict rather than Arab talking points.

Funny that marcus calls me Israel supporter and you call me Arab talking and I am just stating the facts. You need to learn your history how after second world war and defeat of Nazi Germany Jews in Europe were brought in from Europe (NOT born in Palestine) to Palestine and at the time Palestine was under the British rule and how Jewish refugees were settled in Palestinian lands and later as hundreds of thousands were brought in and form a sizable population then declared the state of Israel and started terrorizing Palestinians so that they leave Palestine (their homeland) out of the fear of their lives (Imagine Syrian refugees do this to you!!!). Some terrorist groups murdering innocent women and children were headed or led by a future Prime minister of the state of Israel (Begin). Israel regime has been very aggressive against Palestinian people since then and frequently and often attacking defenseless Palestinian civilian including women and children with heavy artillery and tanks and helicopters killing many defenseless people. History is full of atrocities committed by the state of Israel and its military and a few uneducated or fanatic or Zionist statements like what is quoted above is not going to re-write the history. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

That's NOT what happened. Learn some actual history of the conflict rather than Arab talking points.

That is what happened.  Your shame about your family's historical ties to the Nazi party has crippled your ability to accept reality.

Learn to let it go - it wasn't your fault. 

[DogOnPorch]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

That is what happened.  Your shame about your family's historical ties to the Nazi party has crippled your ability to accept reality.

Learn to let it go - it wasn't your fault. 

 

You're free to pretend that the Jews started the Arab-Israeli War. Might want to give Germany a pass while you're at it.

[marcus]

On 12/10/2019 at 4:05 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Do not try to undermine or hide the truth by carefully chosen words (like corrupt or incompetence) for those regimes who hate Israel. They are Bloodthirsty and murderous governments in other places is the fact who shoot their own people in the back and there are plenty of videos about that too. So I am asking you again. What do you think these people would do to Israeli civilians if they occupy Israel when they shoot their own defenseless women and children and youth in the back for simply a protest or demonstration?

I have no problem calling them bloodthirsty murderers as well. I just don't agree with excusing supporting Israel's blatant occupation and systematic theft of Palestinians' land and human rights violations because of the surrounding neighbours. Israel can defend itself from those outside forces without being total murderous asshole thugs towards the Palestinians.

[eyeball]

18 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

You're free to pretend that the Jews started the Arab-Israeli War. Might want to give Germany a pass while you're at it.

I'm not pretending that and Germany had nothing to do with it either. Much of the dysfunction however including the Arab-Israeli war and much that's gone worse since can be laid at England's feet.  The region is doomed pure and simple.

You're free to imagine, say or do whatever you like. It won't help, nothing will.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, marcus said:

I have no problem calling them bloodthirsty murderers as well. I just don't agree with excusing supporting Israel's blatant occupation and systematic theft of Palestinians' land and human rights violations because of the surrounding neighbours. Israel can defend itself from those outside forces without being total murderous asshole thugs towards the Palestinians.

 

Objection noted, but Israel will decide what is best for Israel.   It doesn't need anybody's  permission.

"The best defense is a strong offense"

[DogOnPorch]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm not pretending that and Germany had nothing to do with it either. Much of the dysfunction however including the Arab-Israeli war and much that's gone worse since can be laid at England's feet.  The region is doomed pure and simple.

You're free to imagine, say or do whatever you like. It won't help, nothing will.

 

Blame Britain...blame France...Blame whomever....but let's not blame the guys that actually started the war. The Arabs are just children and aren't responsible for their actions.

The ultimate in ethnocentrism. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[Rue]

On 12/10/2019 at 8:55 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Funny that marcus calls me Israel supporter and you call me Arab talking and I am just stating the facts. You need to learn your history how after second world war and defeat of Nazi Germany Jews in Europe were brought in from Europe (NOT born in Palestine) to Palestine and at the time Palestine was under the British rule and how Jewish refugees were settled in Palestinian lands and later as hundreds of thousands were brought in and form a sizable population then declared the state of Israel and started terrorizing Palestinians so that they leave Palestine (their homeland) out of the fear of their lives (Imagine Syrian refugees do this to you!!!). Some terrorist groups murdering innocent women and children were headed or led by a future Prime minister of the state of Israel (Begin). Israel regime has been very aggressive against Palestinian people since then and frequently and often attacking defenseless Palestinian civilian including women and children with heavy artillery and tanks and helicopters killing many defenseless people. History is full of atrocities committed by the state of Israel and its military and a few uneducated or fanatic or Zionist statements like what is quoted above is not going to re-write the history. 

Please stop lecturing about Jewish history using British bias perspective. Jews who went to Israel after WW2 were not the only people who went to Israel. There were and you do NOT get it, thousands of Jews fleeing Muslim states. Why? Ask yourself why. You do not because your perspective of history is Eurocentric and based on British biases.

The Middle East had Muslim countries that do not separate Islam the religion from the state government. These Islamic or Sharia law states define to th is day non Muslims as dhimmi, people not allowed to own land or have the same legal rights as Muslims in such states. Jews in Israel did come from Europe but also the Middle East, Asia and South America as well as North America and Africa. They came to Israel no different than the vast majority of so called Palestinians came to where the West Bank is from OUTSIDE that area.

Palestine was under British rule but why? Did your history teach you that the British lied to get their mandate from the League of Nations to administer Palestine-they were supposed to administer it not rule it. In your version of history the British rule but we don't think twice about what the word rule means.

The British had no legal authority to rule Palestine after WW2. Zero. None. The League of Nations was disabanded. Also so we get it  clear in the British history version please remember , both Palestinians and Jews fought side by side in a Palestinian regiment of the British Army in WW2 and along with the Rhodesians and Australians were the principal desert fighters that defeated the Germans in North Africa. We were not always  enemies.

Those Palestinians after WW2 who then went on to fight Jews were pro Nazis who fought during the war for Hitler and after WW2, Iraq, Egypt and Syria welcomed with open arms, thousands of Nazi government, police and military officials. So many in fact that the Nazis took over the Egyptian military, Syrian government and military and Iraq. But you knew that.

You also know those same Nazis marched side by side with the British leading thje Royal Jordanian Army and Egyptian military against the Jews in Palestine to try prevent them from having a state. General Allenby led the British with full support of Nazi soldiers who moved to the ME. The RAF flew the Egyptian Air Force planes.

You know that Israel came about because the Arab armies panicked and ran and the sight of where they ran from is where the defacto borders of pre 1967 Israel came about...not by agreement..but by default.. The KGB and Soviets came in to replace the German Nazis, British and French as the colonial powers not Israel.

Does your version of history discuss  during WW2 British sending Jews back to Germany to die because they didn't want Jews  in Palestine? We were good enough to fight Hitler in North Africa not worthy of our lives otherwise. This is why certain gentile British after the war sided with Israel and even volunteered and went to Israel along with British Jews from the British armed forces. Other eentiles went to Israel to defend Jews and hard as it is for you to believe Palestinians in Jordan donated land to Jewish refugees and died supporting them against the British.

What Jews and Palestinians who fought side by side the British against the German Nazis  know is that the British after WW2  supported the Nazis  in the Middle East in Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan go after Jews and try finish what was started. . Read that in your selective British  history books. Start with Churchill's memoirs. Ask how many Nazis lived in Alexandria, Baghdad and Damascus after WW2  got there and who supported them. Ask which British companies sold nerve gas to Hussein. Why the hell do you think the Yanks went into Iraq. Go look at what chemicals France, Germany and Britain sold Iraq and Iran for that matter.

The British version fo ME history is b.s. The only people who admit they were there for oil are the Yanks. Everyone else acts like they were there as Saints.  Eisenhower did more for Israel than any American other than Elanor Roosevelt whose fight for Israel is beyond discussion. Other American Presidents stopped nuclear attacks on Israel by the Russians. The US. Holland and Czechoslovakia are the only true allies Israel ever had and to a lesser extent Australia and Canada.

France and the US took in more Jewish refugees than any other country except Israel. Please find out just how many Jewish refugees came from the Middle East and Africa and fled Muslim regimes and why. Holocaust survivors and refugees from Sharia law nations were not colonialist settlers. That is a myth invented by the Arab League who are all colonial propped puppet states to this day. The only royal thing about any Arab is the fact the British might have anointed their great grandfathers with false titles to control them. Beduin Arabs of the Middle East had no Royals. The true Arabs of the Middle East have never been defined or ruled by anyone but themselves. They are the only true Arabian peoples other than Jews and Christians descended from the region as well as Kurds, Druze, Yazidi, Zoroastreans and Bahaiis.

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Rue

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Blame Britain...blame France...Blame whomever....but let's not blame the guys that actually started the war. The Arabs are just children and aren't responsible for their actions.

The ultimate in ethnocentrism. 

I'm blaming the people that steered the region down a road that lead to war. The Arab nations were just like children compared to adults that were abusing their power.

The standard for colonialism.

[DogOnPorch]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm blaming the people that steered the region down a road that lead to war. The Arab nations were just like children compared to adults that were abusing their power.

The standard for colonialism.

 

You know nothing of the history of the region.

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You know nothing of the history of the region.

Which is still 50 times more than you know.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

Which is still 50 times more than you know.

 

I accept your surrender.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

I accept your surrender.

This is why you know nothing of history, you're only capable of seeing what you want to see.

[Rue]

Citizen I only meant to debate you. I read back my post and edited it. I sounded to arrogant and rude to you Sorry. Only meant to debate.

[CITIZEN_2015]

21 hours ago, marcus said:

I have no problem calling them bloodthirsty murderers as well. I just don't agree with excusing supporting Israel's blatant occupation and systematic theft of Palestinians' land and human rights violations because of the surrounding neighbours. Israel can defend itself from those outside forces without being total murderous asshole thugs towards the Palestinians.

Good let's call them what they really are and corrupt and incompetent do not described them even close enough as these regimes by far surpassing the Israeli regime (they kill their own brothers, sisters, parents) when it comes to violence to which we both agree to oppose. Has it ever crossed your mind as why Israelis acts in such a brutal way against defenseless people? Apart from Israeli leaders and military being terrorists but what pushed the majority of Israelis to support them in spite of all these acts of violence? My thought maybe is the extreme hate expressed so publically by these regimes calling for Israel to be wiped off the planet (not Israeli leaders and military but Israel itself) and then the next day shooting their own women and children in the back for slightest opposition. At the very least they can use this hate to justify their actions. They are driven to a corner while surrounded by hateful neighbors calling for their annihilation every day which would turn a cat even into a violent tiger.

Edited December 13, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

Citizen I only meant to debate you. I read back my post and edited it. I sounded to arrogant and rude to you Sorry. Only meant to debate.

I didn't see the unedited post. But I accept the apology. I appear to be on the receiving side from both pro-Israel and anti-Israel posters. Maybe this means that I maybe unbiased in my views?

[Marocc]

On 12/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Rue said:

Sharia law states

That's misleading as there are countries that apply different sets of laws at the same time.

On 12/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Rue said:

to th is day non Muslims as dhimmi, people not allowed to own land

Could you provide a source for this?

On 12/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Rue said:

or have the same legal rights as Muslims in such states.

And this

On 12/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Rue said:

They came to Israel no different than the vast majority of so called Palestinians came to where the West Bank is from OUTSIDE that area.

But the Muslims and the Christians were there first.

On 12/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Rue said:

We were not always  enemies.

We? Which one are you?

On 12/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Rue said:

Those Palestinians after WW2 who then went on to fight Jews were pro Nazis who fought during the war for Hitler and after WW2, Iraq, Egypt and Syria welcomed with open arms, thousands of Nazi government, police and military officials.

Could you provide a source for this?

On 12/12/2019 at 6:04 PM, Rue said:

Bahaiis

That's kind of new.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Iranian citizens opposing the regime's boycott of Israel even wish to change nationality.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-top-chess-player-wants-to-change-his-nationality-over-israel-ban/

[taxme]

On 12/6/2019 at 2:55 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Oh really? And what about the Arabs with hundreds of billions of dollars of easy oil money every year, and most advanced Russian and French military hardware and population of over half a billion could not defeat or even resist a nation of less than a few million. It is not the military hardware (or money) that counts it is the brain who drives it.

It is said that Israel gets approx. 15 billion American tax dollars every year in aid from the American taxpayer's to help prop up Israel, plus military jets and other military hardware. If Israel did not have the backing of America, Israel would have lost the war in two days to the Arabs. There is no way a few million can beat an army of a billion. One man cannot fight off ten men. 

[taxme]

On 12/12/2019 at 11:56 AM, DogOnPorch said:

 

You know nothing of the history of the region.

And neither do you. 

[taxme]

On 12/12/2019 at 1:21 PM, Rue said:

Citizen I only meant to debate you. I read back my post and edited it. I sounded to arrogant and rude to you Sorry. Only meant to debate.

But you do not know how to debate at all. When one says something that you do not like or want to read, you then attack them with nasty names and labels. When the truth is thrown in your face you go all ballistic and rant on about how that person has to be something that they are really not. When you cannot win a debate you start with the name calling, and making up lies and accusations about that person. I know that you and your ilk like to think that you/they are the greatest show and earth, and were God's gift to mankind, but really, you are know where near that. Just my opinion of course. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

It is said that Israel gets approx. 15 billion American tax dollars every year in aid from the American taxpayer's to help prop up Israel, plus military jets and other military hardware. If Israel did not have the backing of America, Israel would have lost the war in two days to the Arabs. There is no way a few million can beat an army of a billion. One man cannot fight off ten men. 

It is true that Israel receives lots of financial help from abroad though the dollars by themselves don't win the war since the truth is that Arabs in combination have at least 10 times more (oil) money than Israel. They also enjoy Russian and French and American military hardware purchased by oil money or heavy taxation of their citizens in those without oil. Israel crushed the 3 armies in 6 days in 1967 and it wasn't American soldiers who fought the war. The Arabs are divided. They have corrupt governments interested only in self preservation and they are not as good fighters. I am not an Israel state supporters. I think they are criminals against defenseless people though do not appreciate Arab invasions and occupations in their history either. Israel's action may be regarded as self defense though they do sometimes use excessive force against defenseless people and there is no justification for that.

Edited December 24, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[taxme]

17 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It is true that Israel receives lots of financial help from abroad though the dollars by themselves don't win the war since the truth is that Arabs in combination have at least 10 times more (oil) money than Israel. They also enjoy Russian and French and American military hardware purchased by oil money or heavy taxation of their citizens in those without oil. Israel crushed the 3 armies in 6 days in 1967 and it wasn't American soldiers who fought the war. The Arabs are divided. They have corrupt governments interested only in self preservation and they are not as good fighters. I am not an Israel state supporters. I think they are criminals against defenseless people though do not appreciate Arab invasions and occupations in their history either. Israel's action may be regarded as self defense though they do sometimes use excessive force against defenseless people and there is no justification for that.

Personally, I have no love for either of those two people. I wish that they would just get it over with and have a war against one another and get it over with. To the winner goes everything. As the now deceased American journalist Helen Thomas once said. She said that all Jews should go back to Europe where they came from, and get out and off Arab land. Thomas got fired for saying that. She must have peeved off the AIPAC lobby. But I have to admit that most of what you just wrote is so true, and that is that Israel could not survive on it's own without the aid and assistance from pro Israel countries. Israel has nothing to offer the world. Israel is just a country sitting in the middle of a sandy desert. Aw well, what more can be said.