Higgly Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Naw, what they are is trying to fit in with their surroundings. When you're a minority in a country, it's a lot easier to just echo what is being said, even if it's against your own people, then to try to stand up against it. By going along with the condemnation of Israel, whether or not they themselves actually agree, they divert the discrimination away from themselves. If those same Jewish academics expressed the outrage that many of them likely feel, they may have reason to fear that their security at their jobs or just their social interactions with their fellow non-Jewish academics could suffer as a result. Oh look! The Emporer's clothes! So grand! So perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Are they all 'self-haters'? Naw, what they are is trying to fit in with their surroundings. When you're a minority in a country, it's a lot easier to just echo what is being said, even if it's against your own people, then to try to stand up against it. That doesn't hold water, given the plethora of people who are obvioulsy quite free to stand on the other side of that issue and be as vocal as they please. Indeed, if anything, among Jewish people it is more likely that the opinions expressed by the boycotters will bring them vilification than full-on support for Israel would. No, it seems much more likely that they are reflective people whose consciences direct their choices, rather than prejudices, partisanship or peer pressure. Good, wise people who I applaud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 No, it seems much more likely that they are reflective people whose consciences direct their choices, rather than prejudices, partisanship or peer pressure. Good, wise people who I applaud. I'll have what he's having! Two week-ends ago, there was a demonstration in Toronto outside of Chapters/Indigo stores. For those of you who might wonder what a McMansion looks like, just go to a Chapters/Indigo store. Anyways, the point of the demonstration was that Heather Reisman, the owner of Chapters/Indigo, and Gerald Schwartz, her investment banker hubby, belong to some sort of pro-Israel secret ring society. The group has Israeli military people on the board and the demonstrators are against the occupation. Well, you get the picture. Anyways, I had stopped my bike at a red light in front of one of these halls of erudition, when an exchange developed between a male passerby and a female member of the demonstrators. "You should talk to one of the Israelis who've been injured!", shouted the man. "I am one of them!", shouted the woman. Interesting times.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 According to the investigation, the Jewish academics justify their stance as part of the struggle for Palestinian rights and ending Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories.********* Are they all 'self-haters'? In a word, yes. Certainly, to the extent you are a Jew hater, not a self-hater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 According to the investigation, the Jewish academics justify their stance as part of the struggle for Palestinian rights and ending Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories. ********* Are they all 'self-haters'? In a word, yes. Certainly, to the extent you are a Jew hater, not a self-hater. Well then, since I am not a Jew-hater - these brave folks certainly aren't self haters!! (BTW - your insults are against board policy are they not? Was that really the best you could do jbg?) So, to take your rhetoric further - I guess all those of the Jewish faith who are opposed to the Occupation (and there are many) are all either Jew-haters or Self-haters? Is Jeff Halper a self hater? Is Avnery a self hater? Is Finkelstien a self hater? Is Micheal Lerner a self hater? Is Ilan Pappe a self hater? I could go on but I would hope you get the point. (Though I am not holding my breath) For those of you here not blinded by hatred as jbg is, follow the links and see what is said by many of these brave individuals who have the moral fortitude to speak up against what is truly a crime - the illegal occupation of Palestinian lands and the slow genocide and destruction of an entire people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 "Self-hater" is yet another slur invented by the Jewish pro-Israeli right to silence any members of the Jewish community who might disagree with them. Anybody who has followed this business for some time will know that these folks specialize in the sound bite. They have sound bite slurs, sound bite hate claims, sound bite over-simplified historical facts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 "Self-hater" is yet another slur invented by the Jewish pro-Israeli right to silence any members of the Jewish community who might disagree with them. Anybody who has followed this business for some time will know that these folks specialize in the sound bite. They have sound bite slurs, sound bite hate claims, sound bite over-simplified historical facts....Would it surprise you that most of Israel's early support came from the Left? It was only with the invention of a "national" group, the Palestinians that left-wing sentiment swung against Israel.And mind you, a "nation" with no borders, no economic viability and, from what we're seeing in Gaza, no ability to control territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Well then, since I am not a Jew-hater - these brave folks certainly aren't self haters!!(BTW - your insults are against board policy are they not? Was that really the best you could do jbg?) So, to take your rhetoric further - I guess all those of the Jewish faith who are opposed to the Occupation (and there are many) are all either Jew-haters or Self-haters? Okay. Enough with the hypocrisy Buff. You called me an asshole this morning on another thread, and here you have the gall to claim insults are against board policy. You do nothing but insult and name call, trolling for responses. It's beyond silly, and I don't understand why anyone takes your nonsense seriously. Grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 "Self-hater" is yet another slur invented by the Jewish pro-Israeli right to silence any members of the Jewish community who might disagree with them. Anybody who has followed this business for some time will know that these folks specialize in the sound bite. They have sound bite slurs, sound bite hate claims, sound bite over-simplified historical facts....Would it surprise you that most of Israel's early support came from the Left? It was only with the invention of a "national" group, the Palestinians that left-wing sentiment swung against Israel. No, it was only when Israel obviously became an oppressor in violation of international law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Enough with the hypocrisy Buff. You called me an asshole this morning on another thread,.... Funny the Search function can't turn up any evidence of that. Care to explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Enough with the hypocrisy Buff. You called me an asshole this morning on another thread,.... Funny the Search function can't turn up any evidence of that. Care to explain? I'm sure you'll jump to her defence anyway, but I will show you the post in question: More than one infraction, can you count them all? Upon review, she wasn't referring to me specifically with the term asshole, but it is still against the rules. She did tell me to get off my high horse of BS, among other things though. And then she has the short term memory loss to tell jbg to mind the rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Hey Sharkie - aside from spreading lies about other forum members here do you ever actually address the topic of the post? Or follow the conversation? The topic, to be clear is the recent motion to boycott Israel (it hasn't passed yet), to which I added a link from and Israeli paper, ynet, explaining that many of those behind the boycott are themselves Jewish, as well as the REASON for the boycotts: Occupation. From there the thread digressed to name calling and insinuations of Jew Hating - nonsense designed to take away from any kind of rational discussion. Then you came along, making further false insinuations about what I happened to say. Which for you I will say again: There are assholes in every group - no one holds the corner of the market. They are those who seek to lie, to distort, to cast false witness, to murder and to steal, to abuse and to terrorize. No nation or ethnicity is without them. NONE. Good Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Enough with the hypocrisy Buff. You called me an asshole this morning on another thread,.... Funny the Search function can't turn up any evidence of that. Care to explain? I'm sure you'll jump to her defence anyway, but I will show you the post in question: More than one infraction, can you count them all? Upon review, she wasn't referring to me specifically with the term asshole, but it is still against the rules. She did tell me to get off my high horse of BS, among other things though. And then she has the short term memory loss to tell jbg to mind the rules! this type of response is also against the rules, "Can YOU answer that with anything other than your usual dribble and lies? "Since the majority of your above post is simply BS..." so you have a good point. It never fails with these debates that buffycat attacks, maybe its time the moderator ruled on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 The topic, to be clear is the recent motion to boycott Israel (it hasn't passed yet), to which I added a link from and Israeli paper, ynet, explaining that many of those behind the boycott are themselves Jewish, as well as the REASON for the boycotts: Occupation. Here's another interesting paradox about Israel-apologists. For them, extremist Muslims are the cause of antagonism against all Muslims, and if so-called moderate Muslims spoke out against the dark-age mentality of their extremists, the community in general would not be perceived with prejudices that are presently subjected to. IOW, a blanket defense of your co-religionists is bad, it is the cause of any animosity which may be directed at you, and speaking out against injustice is more important than defending the wrongs of your co-religionists simply because they happen to identify with the same religion as you. Yet if a Jewish person does not agree with Israel's right to oppress, break international law and occupy Palestinian land, then they are self-hating Jews. In conclusion, a blanket defense of your co-religionists is only bad when Muslims do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Enough with the hypocrisy Buff. You called me an asshole this morning on another thread,.... Funny the Search function can't turn up any evidence of that. Care to explain? I'm sure you'll jump to her defence anyway, but I will show you the post in question: More than one infraction, can you count them all? The only instance of the word 'asshole' I could discern was in post #30 on that page. The specific quote is: There are Assholes in every group on this planet -... Which is not remotely the same thing as 'calling you' an asshole. So if that is what you were refering to, then you're strangely mistaken. As for jumping to her defence, your complaint is utterly unfounded, so I'm proud and happy to defend against it. Upon review, she wasn't referring to me specifically with the term asshole, but it is still against the rules. No, it's not against the rules, although it IS discouraged. How is it you got the impression she was referng to you? Do you not read the posts you react to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Figleaf, in all honesty I didn't think you would find one thing wrong with her rude obnoxious comments. I don't know why you spent so much time on refuting the asshole comment when I plainly stated in my post I realized she didn't specifically call me one... You can disagree with someone without associating what they believe in with Nazis, assholes, racists, and hypocrites as Buff regularly does. Actually you usually do as well, you must be turning over a new leaf or something. If only the cat would do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Figleaf, in all honesty I didn't think you would find one thing wrong with her rude obnoxious comments. I didn't read the chain of events, I did a word search on 'asshole'. Stick to the point: Why did you say she called you an asshole when she did not?? I don't know why you spent so much time on refuting the asshole comment when I plainly stated in my post I realized she didn't specifically call me one... Because I want to know why you said she called you that when she didn't. I hate posters making up crap about eachother that isn't true. It interferes with discussion and taints the whole forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Wow, all this attention on lil' ole me, I'm gobsmacked! Figleaf, thank you for your chivalrous intervention, but I don't think the effort is worth it in sharkman's case. Best to just ignore him, and allow others to come to their own conclusions. Those who may read threads and not post will formulate their own opinions from what folks write. Sharkman's false accusations and methods of interaction on this board speak volumes in and of themselves. As I said, no group has the corner of the market on being and A$$hole. I could have used a different word, but to me jerk was simply not strong enough. Hyprocrit, liar, cad, boer come to mind but in the colloquiism of modern English and the informality of the board I figured that Asshole would do just fine. Point being that no matter which little enclave one shines a light on - there will always be trolls and goblins lurking in the shadows ready to pounce on the bit of light which exposes their wrongdoings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Wow, all this attention on lil' ole me, I'm gobsmacked!Figleaf, thank you for your chivalrous intervention, ... Aw shucks, t'weren't nothin'. (To be honest, I can't claim it was pure chivalry. That kind of thing just p!sses me off.) As I said, no group has the corner of the market on being and A$$hole. I could have used a different word, but to me jerk was simply not strong enough. Hyprocrit, liar, cad, boer come to mind but in the colloquiism of modern English and the informality of the board I figured that Asshole would do just fine. Point being that no matter which little enclave one shines a light on - there will always be trolls and goblins lurking in the shadows ready to pounce on the bit of light which exposes their wrongdoings. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Aw shucks, t'weren't nothin'.(To be honest, I can't claim it was pure chivalry. That kind of thing just p!sses me off. Comeon figleaf, its not one sided here, don't these comments p!ss you off too... or is there a double standard here.... its against the rules too. "Get off your high horse of BS. Can YOU answer that with anything other than your usual dribble and lies? "Since the majority of your above post is simply BS... Horse shit. So, again you are full of absolute bigotted horse hooey!! " and so on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Aw shucks, t'weren't nothin'. (To be honest, I can't claim it was pure chivalry. That kind of thing just p!sses me off. Comeon figleaf, its not one sided here, don't these comments p!ss you off too... or is there a double standard here.... its against the rules too. "Get off your high horse of BS. Can YOU answer that with anything other than your usual dribble and lies? "Since the majority of your above post is simply BS... Horse shit. " and so on Scriblett: STAY ON TOPIC::: The BOYCOTT of ISRAEL! Good Day Sunshine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Aw shucks, t'weren't nothin'. (To be honest, I can't claim it was pure chivalry. That kind of thing just p!sses me off. Comeon figleaf, its not one sided here, don't these comments p!ss you off too... or is there a double standard here.... its against the rules too. "Get off your high horse of BS. Can YOU answer that with anything other than your usual dribble and lies? "Since the majority of your above post is simply BS... Horse shit. " and so on Scriblett: STAY ON TOPIC::: The BOYCOTT of ISRAEL! Good Day Sunshine! Sure sweetie, just some fine examples of the debating skills so eloquantly displayed here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 ROFLMAO @ you Scriblett! Still nothing to offer which is on topic? Such as "Why the boycott?" "Why are such measures even being considered?" "What REASONS, using FACTS, do those who advocate the boycott use?" Can you answer any of these things? That IS the topic Scribbles, get with it honeypie!! (kisses and a hug!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Aw shucks, t'weren't nothin'. (To be honest, I can't claim it was pure chivalry. That kind of thing just p!sses me off. Comeon figleaf, its not one sided here, don't these comments p!ss you off too... or is there a double standard here.... its against the rules too. "Get off your high horse of BS. Can YOU answer that with anything other than your usual dribble and lies? "Since the majority of your above post is simply BS... Horse shit. So, again you are full of absolute bigotted horse hooey!! " and so on I wouldn't want to be getting earfuls like that, no. But neither would I like to be provoked to them. Anyway, I have no idea what rule you think is being broken there. In any event, I decidedly think it is worse to make up things about what posters said. Aggressive language is one thing, but bearing false witness is something else. [Edit: Sharkman!] were you going to enlighten me as to how you came to suggest you were 'called' an asshole, when that in fact did not occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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