The Left Wing Belief that Evanglicals desire the destruction

[M.Dancer]

Some people just can not handle christianity and must attack it whenever they see it. Even the MSM has its limits.

And yes, I'll attack Christianity whenver I see Benny Hinns or Pat Robertson spew their vile and hatred and self prophecy to anyone with a checkbook or VISA. Same goes with those tele-evangival shows. Just shows you how gullible and weak some people are.

They are modern day carnies and nothing more.

[scribblet]

Exactly, some of them are huxters, and if they pray for some things to happen, so what, it doesn't affect anything.

I didn't say it was a sign of mental illness to believe in the bible, you know full well I was referring in particular to Fred Phelps and his group, who in no way reflect main stream Christianity, they are a very small group of winguts. Most of his congregation are whacked out relatives.

I'm not familiar with any of Benny Hinn's speeches but I bet he didn't call for executing the "jews" or supports turning kids into human bombs.

Dominionists is a new term, coined by the left to spread disinformation to discredit a whole group of people, some of whom I'm sure do believe in the rapture and whatever it entails. Lehayes books are fiction, nothing more, he probably believes in it, but so what, he's not harming anyone.

These days it seems the hatred towards Christians is reaching a fever pitch, IMO fuelled by an all consuming hatred of Bush, who has support from some Christians. Rational argument seems to go out the window, which results in a mindless cacophony of hate against religion. Funny thing is, secular humanist or atheism, is a religion in itself.

In the Torcaso Opinion, the U.S. Supreme Court declared secular humanism to be a religion.

Nhttp://members.aol.com/Patriarchy/definitions/humanism_religion.htm

Never mind, it won't be long and Bush will be gone, and life will go on.

[BubberMiley]

These days it seems the hatred towards Christians is reaching a fever pitch, IMO fuelled by an all consuming hatred of Bush...

Really? I thought it was fueled by some christians' all-consuming hatred of gay people.

[Figleaf]

[

Fred Phelps and his merry band of relatives are beyond contempt - and probably mentally ill.

So, you think it's a sign of mental illness to literally believe the Bible? I agree.

You are a disrespectful insulting ass. And that is a definite sign of mental illness.

What?

[Figleaf]

I didn't say it was a sign of mental illness to believe in the bible, you know full well I was referring in particular to Fred Phelps and his group, who in no way reflect main stream Christianity, they are a very small group of winguts. Most of his congregation are whacked out relatives.

What you don't like about them is what they believe about the Bible.

Dominionists is a new term, coined by the left to spread disinformation...

Please be specific about what 'disinformation' you refer to.

In the Torcaso Opinion, the U.S. Supreme Court declared secular humanism to be a religion.

That sounds pretty stupid.

[sharkman]

Some people just can not handle christianity and must attack it whenever they see it. Even the MSM has its limits.

And yes, I'll attack Christianity whenver I see Benny Hinns or Pat Robertson spew their vile and hatred and self prophecy to anyone with a checkbook or VISA.

So, let me get this straight. Whenever you see Benny or Pat you immediately attack Christianity? Please state all you methods.

If these two are spewing vile and hatred to anyone with a chequebook or visa, tell me how they get any cash from these people.

Kind of sounds like you are spewing hate.

[scribblet]

These days it seems the hatred towards Christians is reaching a fever pitch, IMO fuelled by an all consuming hatred of Bush...

Really? I thought it was fueled by some christians' all-consuming hatred of gay people.

Wrong, with the exception of Phelps and his crew. Most people who are against SSM and prostelyzing in schools do not 'hate' homosexuals, they believe in equal rights, but not in SSM. That does not equate to hate.

The disinformation I refer to is putting forward a theory that these so called 'dominionists' or people who believe in the Rapture, are actually working towards bringing down the gov't and destroying the earth so they than be 'raptured'. Only a very small segment believe in the rapture, it is not part of most Church teachings, or it never was when I was young. I'm not a church goer now so maybe I've missed something, have the Anglicans for instance taken to believing in it these days?

And here all along I thought it was some secret Skull & Bones fraternity which has been stage managing world event for the last couple of hundred years, and if its not them its the Bavarian Illumaniti.

[gc1765]

If these two are spewing vile and hatred to anyone with a chequebook or visa, tell me how they get any cash from these people.

Like this

[Black Dog]

So, let me get this straight. Whenever you see Benny or Pat you immediately attack Christianity? Please state all you methods.

Given how many threads one has to wade through on this board about all-powerful, monolithic "Left" (including, well, this one), your whining about people using braod generalizations to pass judgement on an entire group rings quite hollow.

There oughter be a rule that no one can use terms like "Left" or "Right" without defining what those terms mean and to whom, specifically, they are referring.

[scribblet]

As far as left and right go and pertaining to this issue, the people who are making these charges against these particular Christians usually refer to them as the 'Christian right', is there also a Christian left who would qualify as a dominionist or whatever?

I've read up a bit on this as they seem to be confusing the Rapture with the Millenium. Dominionism as I understand it is definitely not mainstream anything including Evangelicalism , it is not even compatible with it.

The Rapture as an idea is not that old: believe it was early 1800s or so. It is not a concept that is popular outside US Evangelicals, and probably unknown outside the English speaking world. It is not, for example, part of mainstream Anglicanism or I believe Catholisiscm. The Rapture is the idea that believers will be taken to heaven whilst non-believers stay on earth for a while. Arguments about whether this occurs before, during or after the Tribulation .

I think this wild conspiracy theorizing about the Christian Right’s supposedly 'secret agenda' to bring on Armageddon is way too broad as there is only a minority of Christians who actually believe that and is just an excuse for the left to ignore democracy in an attempt to defeat the Bush republicans. Its all part of BDR.

You might want to check on how many threads we have to wade through accusing Harper of being part of this vast right wing conspiracy to bring in a theological state.

[Black Dog]

You might want to check on how many threads we have to wade through accusing Harper of being part of this vast right wing conspiracy to bring in a theological state.

I don't care. If you're going to complain about the generalizations about Christians, you should probably be consistent and keep generalizations about "The Left" out of it and call others out when they deploy such stereotypes.

[Figleaf]

Most people who are against SSM ... believe in equal rights, but not in SSM.

That statement is blatantly inconsistent. It has no coherent meaning. It is nonsensical.

That does not equate to hate.

Inasmuch as opposition to SSM has no rational basis, what do you think is behind it?

The disinformation I refer to is putting forward a theory that these so called 'dominionists' or people who believe in the Rapture, are actually working towards bringing down the gov't and destroying the earth so they than be 'raptured'.

And what facts or evidence do you have that show they are not?

I'm not a church goer now so maybe I've missed something, have the Anglicans for instance taken to believing in it these days?

So far as I can read on this forum, no-one is suggesting that all (or even most) Christians are dominionists.

[Figleaf]

As far as left and right go and pertaining to this issue, the people who are making these charges against these particular Christians usually refer to them as the 'Christian right', is there also a Christian left who would qualify as a dominionist or whatever?

My personal understanding of the concept of 'Christian left' would be 'liberation theology' types.

The Rapture as an idea is not that old: believe it was early 1800s or so. It is not a concept that is popular outside US Evangelicals, and probably unknown outside the English speaking world. It is not, for example, part of mainstream Anglicanism or I believe Catholisiscm. The Rapture is the idea that believers will be taken to heaven whilst non-believers stay on earth for a while. Arguments about whether this occurs before, during or after the Tribulation .

I'm not sure you're right on some of that. The concept of the Rapture appears in the book of Revelation, I think.

Here's Pat Robertson's take: http://www.cbnindia.org/200Questions/article.php?topic=12

[M.Dancer]

The Rapture as an idea is not that old: believe it was early 1800s or so. It is not a concept that is popular outside US Evangelicals, and probably unknown outside the English speaking world. It is not, for example, part of mainstream Anglicanism or I believe Catholisiscm. The Rapture is the idea that believers will be taken to heaven whilst non-believers stay on earth for a while. Arguments about whether this occurs before, during or after the Tribulation .

I'm not sure you're right on some of that. The concept of the Rapture appears in the book of Revelation, I think.

Here's Pat Robertson's take: http://www.cbnindia.org/200Questions/article.php?topic=12

He's right on it. The concept as a developed doctrine does not appear in the bible anywhere.

From your link....

As far as I can tell, the word RAPTURE does not appear in the Bible.

There are verses in the bible that have lead some end timers to believe there will be a general ressuresction of the dead and a gathering of the living. But as a doctrine it isn't there nor is it particularly well defined even amongst the end timers.

[BubberMiley]

Most people who are against SSM and prostelyzing in schools do not 'hate' homosexuals, they believe in equal rights, but not in SSM.

You have an extremely selective definition of the word "hate" for someone who has a tendency to pepper all his arguments by labelling his opponent as some sort of "hater." To you, non-CPCers are "Harper-haters." People opposed to U.S. foreign and economic policy are "America-haters." People opposed to the war are rabid "Bush-haters." Yet, people who would do all they can to limit the rights, privileges, and tolerance of a targeted group of people don't hate them. Landsakes, no. "Hate" is what liberals do; conservatives are above contempt.

[sharkman]

He's right on it. The concept as a developed doctrine does not appear in the bible anywhere.

From your link....

As far as I can tell, the word RAPTURE does not appear in the Bible.

There are verses in the bible that have lead some end timers to believe there will be a general ressuresction of the dead and a gathering of the living. But as a doctrine it isn't there nor is it particularly well defined even amongst the end timers.

This is true. David MacPHerson writes about the Rapture theory. In 1830 a scottish woman named Margaret Macdonald had a vision. She then sent handwritten copies of her vision to local ministers. One such minister, Edward Irving(who was quite popular), completely accepted this vision as gospel truth and began teaching it, which influenced others and later began to be a favoured theory among some. Apparently he never gave her credit for the new doctrine because she was a woman and wouldn't have been believed.

The Bible is silent on this Pre tribulation rapture. That should be enough for most.

[M.Dancer]

One good reason noy much is made of the rapture in mainstream christianisty is tyhat you can't pin it down as to when it will happen. Some argue that the rapture will spare the Church the horror of the tribulation and they have verse or two that supports their belief. Other argue that the rapture will happen during the tribulation..some after the tribulation, and there are those wjo say there will be more than one rapture....and of course their are verses to support each with other verses that seem to deny the others belief.

Believe it or not, this is a source of division amongst the Evangelicals Rapturites....

For mainstream Christians, it doesn't matter when or how the second coming occurs, that right now may be the millenium and tribulation and christains are supposed to live accordingly.

[scribblet]

Most people who are against SSM and prostelyzing in schools do not 'hate' homosexuals, they believe in equal rights, but not in SSM.

You have an extremely selective definition of the word "hate" for someone who has a tendency to pepper all his contempt.

Nonsense, critique and opposition is normal, but when the critique becomes malevolent and all out of proportion to the reality of the situation, and, is only meant to destroy and tear down, then it becomes something else.

The Christophobia, and now this Dominionistaphobia is part of BDR /HDR. IMO this new dominionism isn't spreading anywhere near as much the phobias and likely is just the begginnings of all out anti-Christianism.

I would save your contempt for those who would lash out and try to destroy what they cannot change by democratic means, those who would label a group of people who only want to bring peace, as those who would destroy. Like a child having a temper tantrum who can't get his own way. Who are they going to come for next.

First they came for the communists, but I was not a communist, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the socialists and the trade unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

– Pastor Martin Niemoeller

[Black Dog]

BDR /HDR

WTF?

[Slavik44]

The Rapture as an idea is not that old: believe it was early 1800s or so. It is not a concept that is popular outside US Evangelicals,

And that is the group we are talking about, US evangelicals correct?

-----------------------------

Anyways I think one of the major problems we encounter is that we are dealing with a large group of people with a lot of prominent lunatics amongst them who over sell what they do to support there over inflated ego. A conversation with a political aide, becomes advising the white house, praise from some government crackpot, becomes endorsement from the government. Compliments from bureaucratic hacks becomes the amazement of high level officials. This situation has only been inflamed by Bush's apparent public incompetence. Almost as if there is a widespread conspiracy to make it look like we are being led by high level idiots and lunatics.

However, we must also recognize that some of these individuals do hold views that border on fanaticism. I notice the left behind series was mentioned on here...I recall as a child being made to watch a movie titled "left behind" (I don't know if there is a relation) by my Sunday school teacher. But it was something I was raised to believe...the gloom and doom that god is coming to punish the world and destroy all the un-believers.

I guess I wonder how common it is in the general public, but with the people I was raised around, that was the belief, that was the truth. To an extent where when my mother was talking about Global Warming...her response was well maybe thats just the tribulation comming...why should we tell God no, and try to stop it.

Now, I don't want to introduce a global warming debate here...we would be getting off topic. But imagine for a second if the worst case scenario were fully true...perhaps you can understand why it might be disconcerting for someone to just decide oh thats God acting up again, he is going to destroy the world, bring it on.

Obviously it would be to much of a generalization to say that this is true of all evangelical Christians...it is tough to tell. But as a child I was always concerned that rapture could happen at any second, particularly Sunday night, after being subjected to an hour long doom and gloom story about how the earth was an immoral dirty place, humans were completely evil, and deserved to go to hell...because they could do no good in the sight of god (trust me that fucks up your self image).

Likewise in America 25% of people believe the rapture will happen this year, hang on to your hats...a good 4 billion of us are going to hell by Christmas.

This does present some problems...If you seriously and whole heartedly believe the world is going to end in less then 365 days...you ain't going to be planing for the future. That does pose a problem, because inactivity on important issues can be pushed aside...why care...the world will be over soon enough. So while it cannot be proven that they are actively pursuing the end of the world. Their beliefs might lead to inactivity on important issues, and that most certainly does raise questions and pose problems.

Obviously it is impossible to make the widespread statement that this is true of all Christians, or even all evangelicals...but the 25% that believe the rapture will happen this year is a big number of Americans. It is also tough to claim that they all have bad intentions. Who knows even Fred Phelps has good intentions. but to borrow that old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[Figleaf]

The concept as a developed doctrine does not appear in the bible anywhere.

The word rapture doesn't appear, but the concept of an end of time/judgement day, and the joining of the righteous with God is unquestionably present in Revelation.

[M.Dancer]

The concept as a developed doctrine does not appear in the bible anywhere.

The word rapture doesn't appear, but the concept of an end of time/judgement day, and the joining of the righteous with God is unquestionably present in Revelation.

Yes but it is the creation of a theology and doctrine around the Apocolypse of St John, that is the question.

Mainstream Christianity of course includes the final chapter, but don't go aroiund cashing out theuir RRSPs based on the imminent return of Christ and the rapture. Mainly because mainstream christians don't view these events as being something that occurs in real time.

[jester]

By trying to bring forth the rapture aren't they trying to force their gods will and so are acting against that will at the same time. I would be pretty sure that any god worth the name could bring about their own rapture when they feel like it without any help from loonies down here. And I don't think a plague of boils and sores are that bad and wouldn't the frogs eat the locusts??? So there we are, a couple of boils--a sore or two--eating frogs legs, must be hell then.........

[Catchme]

Those arguing that there is no Dominionist movement towards a theocracy outside of the USA, are insulting those they are trying to convince and they puttting to much store in their ability to try to deceive people through their stellar wits. But good to see you gave up trying to say it wasn't happening at all, now you're just trying to confine it to the USA. As if!

James Dobson, Focus on the Family have committed followers and networks in Canada, as does Pat Robertson, as did Jerry Falwell, they have been trying to interfer in Canadian politics for a good long time.

Canadians know about Free"dominion", it has been on the National News and in the newspaper. The Left Behind Series, has sold millions of copies here in Canada and around the world, Dominionism is well documented, there are literly 100's of books out there documenting it, theocracy implementation is talked about on 100 Huntley Street, Charles McVety has been a guest of the CPC in the HoC. Harper has the same handlers as the Republican Party.

Protesting "nothing to see here" in the face of such prominent evidence literally everywhere, really makes those people insisting; "dominionists, nothing to see here" seem foolish on several levels.

But on the other hand thDominionists ability to be self delusional, and impose self inflicted delusion, appears to have no bounds. Along with the unmitigated ego that insists on telling them they can try to fool others. Sure enough they try to "infiltrate" boards with their game plans; to alienate, infuriate, or to get people kicked off, all to further what they believe is their righteousness over others.

How often through history have we saw what those people could do who felt the were righteous over others?

We need only look at butchers of humanity from the religious sects over the centuries, the butchering monarchs who felt they could do want they wanted to the people who made their kingdoms work, to those who were just butchers like all the rest, but dressed it up under others guises like; Hitler and Nazisism, Stalin/Lenin and supposed Communism, and all the rest of crackpot cult leaders and dictators who butcher, or would have butchered, others, while they "gleefully" watch.

[scribblet]

James Dobson, Focus on the Family have committed followers and networks in Canada, as does Pat Robertson, as did Jerry Falwell, they have been trying to interfer in Canadian politics for a good long time.

Now that's funny, as in LOL - interfering in Canadian politics - as in - excercising their democratic right just as you do