Radical Islam is Wrecking the World - Or, Why Can't Anyone Tell th

[DogOnPorch]

The self-centredness of humankind is the cause of religion...in my opinion. Religion provided purpose and focus in a very dark mysterious world. The thin line that seperates myth from religion is purely subjective. Earth-Mother/Hunter, Zeus, Apollo, Virgin Mary...JC...Alah...et al. All set about to explain why the heck we are here...and what the heck was that streak of light followed by the big noise.

In the same spirit, an 'Earth-like planet' has been discovered around Gliese 581, 20.5 light-years away. That's science at work. Time to wake-up and re-think this humans = centre of the Universe jazz and really get a bearing on what, who and where we all are. As just another animal on the planet riding a crest of evolution with billions of years of collective history.

Did you know the entire BBC "Walking with Dinos, Prehistoric Beasts, Prehistoric Monsters" programmes are on YouTube? A great overview with stuning CGI at times...takes you back...lol. Good for the kids and adults...

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=TruthTheory

Now if somebody would post all of James Burke's

et al.

Sigh...

------------------------------------------------------------------

The coming of the printing press must have seemed as if it would turn the world upside down in the way it spread and, above all, democratized knowledge. Provide you could pay and read, what was on the shelves in the new bookshops was yours for the taking.

---James Burke

[moderateamericain]

JBG

You and Neville Chamberlain would have had some great discussions over tea and crumpets.

Neville Chaberlain is dead, so I'm not sure what kind of discussions we could have. Of course, hypothetically, it would be very interesting to sit down with someone who played such a pivotal role in shaping the history of the globe.

But I don't see what the late Mr. Chamberlain has to do with this conversation. Stay on the subject, man!

Jerry Jerry Bo-Berry Bananafana Fo Ferry

They skulk around and bully, kill, bomb and maim while the "advanced" west (read: liberal) argue willy nilly about the best method of appeasement and "tolerance".

Save us from the skulkers!!!!!!

And again, with the appeasement. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Some other person:

I cannot give a name to the quote but on CNN there was a Holocaust survivor speaking on the similarities between radical Islam and Nazi Germany. And the host asked him "If there was one thing you would like to pass along to people based on your experiences what would it be."

and this old man leans forward in his seat and gets this stern look and says "If someone says they are going to annihilate you, believe it."

Uh huh. Right. The fact that the Islamic world is inferior in every respect to the west and thus has no ability to annihalate anyone (and, as so many have pointed out, can't even get its shit togethe rlong enough to stop fighting amongst itself) kinda puts their threats in a different category.

The fact of the matter is that we are dealing with a portion of a culture who feel that the greatest achievement that they can earn in life is to die killing Infidels. I don't care if you are black, green, blue, yellow, Christan, Muslim, or Jew. If you have a large portion of your society that believes only death is the answer you have a serious problem. And yes for all there primitiveness they are still a threat.

How. What kind of threat? What can they possibly do to us?

I see where you going with that. Heres my point. Germany in until 1931 was in shambles economically. In the span of 10 years they turned there economy into a war machine and o yeah killed a million plus jews before they could be stopped. Sure they may not have the economic and military power now, but who says they cant gain that in the future. After all, they have the backing of rich Saudi princes.

[cybercoma]

The self-centredness of humankind is the cause of religion...in my opinion. Religion provided purpose and focus in a very dark mysterious world. The thin line that seperates myth from religion is purely subjective. Earth-Mother/Hunter, Zeus, Apollo, Virgin Mary...JC...Alah...et al. All set about to explain why the heck we are here...and what the heck was that streak of light followed by the big noise.

In the same spirit, an 'Earth-like planet' has been discovered around Gliese 581, 20.5 light-years away. That's science at work. Time to wake-up and re-think this humans = centre of the Universe jazz and really get a bearing on what, who and where we all are. As just another animal on the planet riding a crest of evolution with billions of years of collective history.

Did you know the entire BBC "Walking with Dinos, Prehistoric Beasts, Prehistoric Monsters" programmes are on YouTube? A great overview with stuning CGI at times...takes you back...lol. Good for the kids and adults...

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=TruthTheory

Now if somebody would post all of James Burke's

et al.

Sigh...

------------------------------------------------------------------

The coming of the printing press must have seemed as if it would turn the world upside down in the way it spread and, above all, democratized knowledge. Provide you could pay and read, what was on the shelves in the new bookshops was yours for the taking.

---James Burke

Great post and might I add, in those days when religion created comfort, people also beileved in things like demonic possession. It was thought that people were possessed when they were sick, so they'd drain all of their blood to try and cure them. Through science and reason, we realize how asinine this is and thankfully have evolved medically. If we could only get rid of that kind of superstition socially and politically, we would be able to move forward as a society, instead of continuing to live in the dark ages.

Murdering one another over a hill, or a wall, that apparently holds spirits. Does God hear better if you're infront of said wall, or on said hill? If you don't live anywhere near there, too bad for you? Most people don't believe in ghosts, most rational people anyway, yet they still believe in the big ghost in the sky. This belief is so deeply influential that people are willing to end lives over it.

Sickening.

The aztecs had no more reason to believe pulling out someone's heart would make the sunrise, than Muslims have to believe killing infidels will appease their sky ghost. Jews and Christians have no more reason to believe their superstitions are any better.

[Peter F]

Now if somebody would post all of James Burke's

et al.

Sigh...

the day the universe changed

Love that series.

[jbg]

Murdering one another over a hill, or a wall, that apparently holds spirits. Does God hear better if you're infront of said wall, or on said hill? If you don't live anywhere near there, too bad for you? Most people don't believe in ghosts, most rational people anyway, yet they still believe in the big ghost in the sky. This belief is so deeply influential that people are willing to end lives over it.

Sickening.

The aztecs had no more reason to believe pulling out someone's heart would make the sunrise, than Muslims have to believe killing infidels will appease their sky ghost. Jews and Christians have no more reason to believe their superstitions are any better.

It is now 2007. One should look at the results of various religious beliefs as well as what their texts say. The harshness of the Old Testament, for example, is ameliorated by both the Talmud and scholarly interpretations that reinterpret away some of the violent aspects of the texts.

Jews are not plunging planes into buildings.

[cybercoma]

I love the re-interpretation arguments. Look, either the texts are divine, or they're not. If we can interpret them as we see fit, then the meaning is obviously not clear. If there is a God and he is all-powerful, all-knowing, you'd think he'd be a little clearer about his message, instead of leaving it open for people to interpret however they see fit. So, if we assign our own meanings to texts, or take some parts from them and ignore others, then there really isn't a divine meaning; the texts are whatever meaning fits society at the time as interpreted by living breathing people. They're not divine and the religious texts give us no reason to believe in God.

Palestinians and Israelis are all just people, with different labels assigned to them at birth. Their children grow up to seek revenge on those with the "wrong" label. It's the largest in-group, out-group dynamic of all time. Moderate Christians and Jews may not be flying planes into buildings, but they're engaging in wars based on superstitions. They also make it impossible to have any kind of objective talks about reason as it relates to religion because they demand a special unquestioning reverence of their beliefs. Religion quashes critical thinking and creates convenient labels used to perpetrate the worst atrocities humanity has ever known.

All religion is to blame for the current situation and until we shed those superstitions in favour of reason, we'll continue to senselessly end life in a pursuit of making our invisible ghost happy.

[cybercoma]

Imagine this entire situation if there were no religion. There'd be no Islam for them to paint the out-group as infidels. All religions see the out-group as inferior. Religion by nature is pretentious and only serves to tear people apart, rather than bring them together. The only ones that get brought together are those of the same "label" with each other. As we move more towards a global society, we need to drop the ridiculous superstitions and start to see one another as human beings.

[ScottSA]

Why is religion beneficial to society? Religion is a set of unreasonable beliefs based on superstition that have resulted in the racism, sexism and violence you described in your post. The holy books that are supposed to be unquestionable and revered are filled with examples of these intolerable things. Furthermore, to say no one religion is correct more than another is wrong. Every religion by its own definition believes that all others are wrong. All people of faith believe they are following the truth. So, by definition if one is true, the rest must be wrong. Religions are completely incompatible with one another.

Religion does nothing more than stifle reason and promote superstitious beliefs. Morality is not dictated by religion as has been indicated by numerous studies. One needs only to find one atheist who has morals to disprove the theory that you need religion for morality.

It can be argued that religion provides comfort and answers to questions that science cannot answer, but are blatant lies and leaps of faith anymore comforting than simply being able to accept that we don't know some things? It is also very evident that religion has done more harm to society and humanity than the good that it supposedly provides.

We need to shed religious labels and learn to live our lives for the here and now. We need to value the life we have in this world and stop putting superstitious beliefs in an afterlife and invisible beings on a pedestal.

Only the religious devaluing of life in this world could make human beings want to end their life to end the lives of others. Only the religious devaluing of life could oppress women and homosexuals they way they're being abused around the world. We're all human beings and we're all in this thing together and until we shed religion, we won't truly be able to appreciate our lives for what they are; a short stint of consciousness for 70 or so years that we need to make the most of.

This is a simple stringing together of the usual strawmen. Religion does more than comfort a bunch of simpletons. "Learning" to live in the here and now is arguably what is threatening to destroy the society we built while under the misapprehension that we would go to heaven. Islam is the religion that entirely devalues life on earth. No other mainstream religion encourages death and destruction as an aid to the afterlife.

What astonishes me is the irony in the faith and conviction of atheists that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Talk about devaluing life. What's the point of a life that ends after 70 years? What's the point in trying to stay moral, and good? Why not simply steal if we can get away with it or kill if someone gets in our way? What a selfish way to look at the world.

[buffycat]

Cybercoma - thank you for the most thoughtful of posts in this otherwise bigotted thread.

ScottSA - what you say of Islam is utterly bigotted and full of the usual propoganda - Goebbels would be very proud. The religion of Islam is the scapegoat of today - a century ago it was the Jews. No difference.

Any kind of 'radicalism' whether it be Christian, Muslim or Judaism is simply the use of religion and people's uneducated outlooks to covet more power. It has nothing to do with spirituality - or one's relation to his or her 'G-d'. (You know the invisible dude in the sky).

I wish more could see through the abuse of religious doctorine and realize we are ALL people, with the same hopes and desires of living in peace, loving one's family and friends and try to build happier lives.

Organized religion should go the way of the dinos - it should become extinct - only then will humanity learn to look on herself as made from the same cloth, only then can we really learn to love, not only ourselves but all our brothers and sisters too. We are one family.

But go ahead and continue on with the divide and conquer ploy - afterall it's worked oh so well!

[Black Dog]

Is this a serious question? If so, discounting the Islamist (al Queda/splinter groups) Spain, London, Bali, et al. bombings with significant losses of civilian life is also a remarkable achievement on the part of anyone advocating for the Islamists. Such as Blackdog.

Or, a selective memory?

Yes yes horrific tragedies all. But none of them represent a significant threat to our position. Really, once you discount the Hollywood action flick fantasies of people like ScottSA, blowing up buses and such is the best these guys can do. That's not an existensial threat.

modam:

I see where you going with that. Heres my point. Germany in until 1931 was in shambles economically. In the span of 10 years they turned there economy into a war machine and o yeah killed a million plus jews before they could be stopped. Sure they may not have the economic and military power now, but who says they cant gain that in the future. After all, they have the backing of rich Saudi princes.

I think that requires a degree of unity that the Muslim world just does not possess.

SomebodyElse:

Religion does more than comfort a bunch of simpletons.

Apparently, it doesn't:

What's the point of a life that ends after 70 years? What's the point in trying to stay moral, and good? Why not simply steal if we can get away with it or kill if someone gets in our way? What a selfish way to look at the world.

[cybercoma]

This is a simple stringing together of the usual strawmen. Religion does more than comfort a bunch of simpletons. "Learning" to live in the here and now is arguably what is threatening to destroy the society we built while under the misapprehension that we would go to heaven. Islam is the religion that entirely devalues life on earth. No other mainstream religion encourages death and destruction as an aid to the afterlife.

No other religion encourages death and destruction?

Christians believe the apocalypse will bring about the return of their saviour. They believe all of those who don't believe what they consider true will suffer eternally in hell. As Sam Harris has said, I'm sure a certain portion of the Christian population in the United States would welcome nuclear destruction of New York as a sign of the beginning of rapture.

The Bible, particularly the Old Testament, which the Jews hold so dear, is filled with the some of the most horrific violence towards all and oppression and violence towards women.

Although which religion is more violent than the other is not my point. My point is that they're all inherently violent and serve no moral purpose. In fact, they only serve to label people and create in-group/out-group mentality. Those labels, which people are willing to die for and kill for, are nothing more than a set of superstitions about things that cannot be backed up by reason.

What astonishes me is the irony in the faith and conviction of atheists that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Talk about devaluing life. What's the point of a life that ends after 70 years? What's the point in trying to stay moral, and good? Why not simply steal if we can get away with it or kill if someone gets in our way? What a selfish way to look at the world.

You obviously don't understand Atheism one bit. It is not a "faith" or "conviction", it is the rejection of a "faith" which is an unreasonable unquestioning belief in something. You reject all other Gods as ridiculous superstition, such as Apollo, Zeus or the Aztec Sun God. Do you question whether you're right or wrong in that idea? Of course not, it's reason and knowledge that tells us we don't need to carve out some innocent person's heart to make the sun rise tomorrow. Atheists simply do not believe in your God, their God, or anyone's Gods. We take it one step further than you by renouncing your God, whoever that may be, just as you renounce everyone else's God.

You want to talk about devaluing life? All that we have is life. The point is that life ends after 70 years, so we need to make the most out of the time we have here. We need to take care of one another and try to make the world a better place for generations to come.

You seem to think there's no reason for morality if there is no religion; how pretentious do you get? Morality advances regardless of religion. For religious reasons, we oppressed women and continue to oppress homosexuals, but all of that is changing in spite of religion, not because of it.

Are you the type of person that would rape, kill and steal if there was no religion? If so, then there's no point in even having a discussion on peace and making society better with you, since you have absolutely no regard for it.

We're moral because we're animals and we depend on survival. We don't go around killing one another because we ourselves don't want to be killed. That is until religion comes in and screws that all up by promising ridiculous things such as an afterlife.

We're not alive (which means we're dead) for an eternity before we were born and it made no difference to us then. All we have is this small piece of consciousness that is life and it is a tragedy when those lives are senselessly ended because of superstitious belief. It is because I am without religion that I fully appreciate life and all people. So, it is not religion that gives us morality, but something deeper within our genes.

[sharkman]

Imagine this entire situation if there were no religion. There'd be no Islam for them to paint the out-group as infidels. All religions see the out-group as inferior. Religion by nature is pretentious and only serves to tear people apart, rather than bring them together. The only ones that get brought together are those of the same "label" with each other. As we move more towards a global society, we need to drop the ridiculous superstitions and start to see one another as human beings.

Ah yes, strains of the Lennon song. I'm afraid you are going to be stuck with the world as is. By your comments it's plain you don't know too much about religion. But you simply can't bring forth examples of other faiths flying planes into buildings, because they are not.

[cybercoma]

I escaped from religion. I know more about it than you know. My parents tried raising me Roman Catholic and were horrified when I told them I didn't believe in their faith.

I'm sorry I didn't realize flying planes was the criteria for radical religious attacks on humanity. I could've swore that gassing jews should've been considered. I thought maybe the priests in Rwanda might have been considered. Perhaps ministries in Africa telling an AIDS infected population that contraceptives are against God's will wasn't the brightest idea either. I didn't even bring up the Crusades, because that one is so obvious it's not even fair to bring up. How about the oppression of science and discover as it concerns Galileo? What about widows in India, like the movie Water examined?

You're right, no other religion has flown planes into buildings. They're completely benign.

[sharkman]

No other religion encourages death and destruction?

Christians believe the apocalypse will bring about the return of their saviour. They believe all of those who don't believe what they consider true will suffer eternally in hell. As Sam Harris has said, I'm sure a certain portion of the Christian population in the United States would welcome nuclear destruction of New York as a sign of the beginning of rapture.

The Bible, particularly the Old Testament, which the Jews hold so dear, is filled with the some of the most horrific violence towards all and oppression and violence towards women.

Although which religion is more violent than the other is not my point. My point is that they're all inherently violent and serve no moral purpose. In fact, they only serve to label people and create in-group/out-group mentality. Those labels, which people are willing to die for and kill for, are nothing more than a set of superstitions about things that cannot be backed up by reason....

...You seem to think there's no reason for morality if there is no religion; how pretentious do you get? Morality advances regardless of religion. For religious reasons, we oppressed women and continue to oppress homosexuals, but all of that is changing in spite of religion, not because of it.

We're moral because we're animals and we depend on survival. We don't go around killing one another because we ourselves don't want to be killed. That is until religion comes in and screws that all up by promising ridiculous things such as an afterlife.

Christians believe the Apocalypse is the defining moment of mankind. All of our attempts at peace and love fail. War has been right up there with death and taxes since mankind began. For accuracy, the Apocalypse is to occur on Israel's land, when Gog and Magog as well as others attack and wipe out Israel. THAT is the Apocalypse. That is when God is supposed to come back and wipe out THOSE armies.

This nonsense about New York being wiped out as a sign of the Apocalypse is silly. The United States is arguably not even mentioned in Revelations. Some scholars think this means she will have no influence on world events by that time.

You suggest the Old Testament has the most horrific violence? Grab a brain. The nuclear weapons the U.S. unleashed on Japan far outdid anything in the O.T. As did the sum of Hitler's Germany. If you are going to make wild eyed accusations like this which are so easy to knock over, at least pretend you are joking.

You suggest we are moral because we are animals and need to survive? If we were moral, there would be no rape, murder, stealing, road rage, and a host of other things. You obviously aren't very familar with morality.

[sharkman]

I escaped from religion. I know more about it than you know. My parents tried raising me Roman Catholic and were horrified when I told them I didn't believe in their faith.

Well, I didn't. My parents not only raised me in the faith, my dad was a pastor. So I know a thing or two as well. So what? There is plenty of blame to go around in history. But we were talking about modern times, and like the typcial response when faced with the fact that Christianity isn't flying planes into bluildings, you go,"yeah? Well what about the crusades?! " Like that has anything to do with today.

[cybercoma]

Get back to me when you're ready to address what I was actually saying, instead of picking and choosing the details you want to dispute. In the end, it's not radical Islam that's destroying the world but the idea of religion as a whole. It's the religious labels that allow them to point out who the enemy is. It's gang mentality on a grander scale. Everything else I was saying is why I feel religion is not needed, the biggest point being the death, suffering and oppression it has caused.

[Guthrie]

Christians believe the Apocalypse is the defining moment of mankind. All of our attempts at peace and love fail. War has been right up there with death and taxes since mankind began. For accuracy, the Apocalypse is to occur on Israel's land, when Gog and Magog as well as others attack and wipe out Israel. THAT is the Apocalypse. That is when God is supposed to come back and wipe out THOSE armies.

Christians believe the Apocalypse is the defining moment of mankind.

Not true. The Christianity I was brought up in believe the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the defining moment of mankind - the moment when death was conquored

War has been right up there with death and taxes since mankind began.

this, of course, is nonsense

For accuracy, the Apocalypse is to occur on Israel's land, when Gog and Magog as well as others attack and wipe out Israel.

not true again

That is when God is supposed to come back and wipe out THOSE armies.

wrong again, the apocalyptic battles end before the return of Christ

[sharkman]

Get back to me when you're ready to address what I was actually saying, instead of picking and choosing the details you want to dispute. In the end, it's not radical Islam that's destroying the world but the idea of religion as a whole. It's the religious labels that allow them to point out who the enemy is. It's gang mentality on a grander scale. Everything else I was saying is why I feel religion is not needed, the biggest point being the death, suffering and oppression it has caused.

I'll get back to you when your comments aren't hate filled rants on religion, with such easy to disprove nonsense, all based on your experience of sticking it to the man when you rejected your parents' faith. Get some more time in.

[cybercoma]

I'll get back to you when your comments aren't hate filled rants on religion, with such easy to disprove nonsense, all based on your experience of sticking it to the man when you rejected your parents' faith. Get some more time in.

You see, this is the problem with the devoutly religious. Any rational discussion of religious dogma and their superstitious beliefs leads the person rejecting such nonsensical ideas as being "hate filled". I'm not filled with hate whatsoever. I have an incredible amount of love and respect for life, something that religion has demonstrated it is lacking for all those in the out-group regardless of the faith.

[sharkman]

You see, this is the problem with the devoutly religious. Any rational discussion of religious dogma and their superstitious beliefs leads the person rejecting such nonsensical ideas as being "hate filled". I'm not filled with hate whatsoever. I have an incredible amount of love and respect for life, something that religion has demonstrated it is lacking for all those in the out-group regardless of the faith.

You see, this is the problem with those who think they've solved all of their problems when they reject their parents faith and or church. They think they can answer the enigma of religion and God for ALL of mankind, all based on their singular experience. Like I said, get some time in kid.

[cybercoma]

Thanks, you've really opened my eyes to how I'm wrong. I have a much deeper understanding and respect for religion after carefully considering the points you've made. And, since I'm just a "kid," I'll be going and playing with my matchbox cars now.

[noahbody]

You see, this is the problem with the devoutly religious. Any rational discussion of religious dogma and their superstitious beliefs leads the person rejecting such nonsensical ideas as being "hate filled". I'm not filled with hate whatsoever. I have an incredible amount of love and respect for life, something that religion has demonstrated it is lacking for all those in the out-group regardless of the faith.

You see, this is the problem with those who think they've solved all of their problems when they reject their parents faith and or church. They think they can answer the enigma of religion and God for ALL of mankind, all based on their singular experience. Like I said, get some time in kid.

I think you just proved his point again with that answer.

[southerncomfort]

Cybercoma - thank you for the most thoughtful of posts in this otherwise bigotted thread.

ScottSA - what you say of Islam is utterly bigotted and full of the usual propoganda - Goebbels would be very proud. The religion of Islam is the scapegoat of today - a century ago it was the Jews. No difference.

I don't see this thread as any more bigoted than the usual propaganda about Israel and Zionists or Christians.

[Guthrie]

Cybercoma - thank you for the most thoughtful of posts in this otherwise bigotted thread.

ScottSA - what you say of Islam is utterly bigotted and full of the usual propoganda - Goebbels would be very proud. The religion of Islam is the scapegoat of today - a century ago it was the Jews. No difference.

I don't see this thread as any more bigoted than the usual propaganda about Israel and Zionists or Christians.

If true, does that defend the bigotry found herein?

[Jerry Galinda]

BTW. Why muslims supported Nazis (e.g. in Egypt) ?

Woody you don’t know why ! Check it in Wikipedia.

LOL.