What does it mean to be Canadian?

[benny]

I absolutely agree, New York is amongst the best locales to discover the many cultures in North America. My point however, is the South States, their past excluded, as, in my experience of Las Vegas and Dallas, the only other culture, probably, you'd have a chance of witnessing is Latin American, and few others as in the northern USA and all of Canada.

I'm quite certain that the transformations that the USA will have to undergo due to its massive Latino flows of population will be replicated, as fiding echoes, in Canada in a couple of generations.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... No disrespect intended, but I find such a phenomenon difficult in most southern US cities, hopefully that's changing however.

Really...so which "southern" cities have you missed? Miami? New Orleans? Houston?

Such generalizations do not hold water.

PS: Where do you think 'Canada's' Acadians ended up?

Edited July 27, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[benny]

PS: Where do you think 'Canada's' Acadians ended up?

In New Brunswick.

[bush_cheney2004]

In New Brunswick.

Not all of them.....see Great Expulsion.

[benny]

Not all of them.....see Great Expulsion.

They were expelled from Nova Scotia.

[bush_cheney2004]

I respect and enjoy debating your point bush_cheney2004, while I disagree with it. I would, however along with the other Canadians on this forum, appreciate it if you refrain from insulting the quality of our soldiers, especially those dead from past conflicts.

Nobody has insulted Canadian soldiers...past or present. But you have managed to insult an entire nation.

And had the Nazi Germans and the Japanese not attacked your vessels and naval bases in WWI and WWII respectively, we all know that your nation would of sat nice and tight while Canada helped decide the fate of the world.

And if pigs had wings they could fly. The Russians and British sure appreciated the American contribution, as did Canada.

Ask an intelligent non-North American that, and you'll see what I mean, go to Vimy Ridge maybe, or Ypres, or la Somme, then come back and we'll have some more friendly debates.

You are too late...we have already discussed these things many times here.

[CANADIEN]

Also read on what the Nazi's thought of "Entartete Musik und Kunst", they actually are sympathetic to the blacks,

Oh really?

The fate of black people from 1933 to 1945 in Nazi Germany and in German-occupied territories ranged from isolation to persecution, sterilization, medical experimentation, incarceration, brutality, and murder. (link)

[DogOnPorch]

Oh really?

Gotta agree with you here, CANADIEN. The Nazis thought black culture to be degernerate. The Swingjugend was a bit of a protest (as much as any dared) against the Entartete Kunst campaign by the Nazis. Jazz and such was banned from radio play not only for its black roots...but also that many of Germany's jazz players of the time happened to be Jewish.

Edited July 27, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[jbg]

I absolutely agree, New York is amongst the best locales to discover the many cultures in North America. My point however, is the South States, their past excluded, as, in my experience of Las Vegas and Dallas, the only other culture, probably, you'd have a chance of witnessing is Latin American, and few others as in the northern USA and all of Canada.

New Orleans has a strong Vietnamese contingent. Atlanta's a bit of a melting pot.

That statement of yours was probably true though about 30 years ago.

[Guest American Woman]

I find it interesting that more than one American on this board always finds it necessary to inform the Canadians about how their definition of their own country isn't good enough.

And I find it interesting that you interpret my statement as "informing Canadians that their definition of their own country isn't good enough." When I say I find it interesting that you define "being Canadian" mostly by stating differences from the U.S., I wasn't saying your definition "isn't good enough." I was saying that I found it interesting. So please try not to accuse me of things that aren't true.

Much of our history is based on differing ourselves from you and that is a simple fact. We live besides the most powerful country in the world, and we're supposed to ignore them?

I don't ignore Canadian history. I just don't use it to define "being American."

But the way I read your statement, that much of your history is "based on differing [your]selves from [us]," it makes it sound as if Canada's actions were made purposely just to differ from ours. Your history may be different from ours, but I sure hope your decisions aren't made on the sole basis of being different from us.

Also, it doesn't matter if you wanted to wait or not. The point still stands that our independence was achieved in a far more peaceful manner. The fact that you couldn't wait further reinforces the point.

Anyone accepts being treated unfairly by someone else will be more "peaceful" than those who aren't willing to accept being treated unfairly. But Canada was settled by a significant number of people who were loyal to the crown; they moved into Canadian territory when the Americans rebelled against the crown, so you had more people who were content with the way things were in Canada than you did the United States. So there's the main difference-- not that so many Canadian settlers were so much more peaceful, but that they were more content. That was my point in saying the Americans didn't want to wait until England was willing to give us our independence 200 years later.

But for the record, if I were Canadian, I'd be able to define myself without comparing myself to the U.S.; I would be proud of my country, my heritage, without giving another thought to what any other nation is or isn't. If I were Canadian, it would bug the heck out of me that too many of my countrymen are unable to do the same.

One last thing-- when you constantly bring Americans into your definition of "being Canadian," you're inviting comments by Americans. If you don't want our opinion of your definition, try defining being Canadian without involving us. Personally, I think you'd come up with a much more worthy definition of what it is to be Canadian if you did. It's not so much that I think your definition "isn't good enough," but that I think you're selling your country short.

[AngusThermopyle]

It's amazing that you can learn about almost every global culture by walking down the street in Ottawa, Toronto or Vancouver to name a very few.

Okay, so what amazing things can you learn exactly? That a bunch of people from different places are present? That some of them dress differently from some others? That may amaze you but it certainly doesn't do it for me, takes a bit more than that to amaze me.

So what has walking down the street taught you about "almost every global culture". Your statement sounds like just so much more unfounded isn't multiculturalism just so wonderfull crap. Thats just my opinion though.

[g_bambino]

But Canada was settled by a significant number of people who were loyal to the crown; they moved into Canadian territory when the Americans rebelled against the crown.

Then you contradict yourself. The American identity is, by your own admission, formed on the notion that the country was born of people different to others; the first Americans defined themselves as not-British, going about fulfilling their pesonal wants by means completely contrary to the traditional British method; in their eyes, they were the muscular, self-righteous rebels, while the Loyalists were tea-sipping, lispy wimps. Hence, in the end, we have the two phrases that beautifully sum up the difference between the US and Canada: "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" vs. "peace, order, and good government". As the Americans thought up the former on their own, you can't for one second say the very modern identity of the US wasn't born out of a desire to be different to Canadians.

[Shraytus]

Okay, so what amazing things can you learn exactly? That a bunch of people from different places are present? That some of them dress differently from some others? That may amaze you but it certainly doesn't do it for me, takes a bit more than that to amaze me.

So what has walking down the street taught you about "almost every global culture". Your statement sounds like just so much more unfounded isn't multiculturalism just so wonderfull crap. Thats just my opinion though.

Vancouver for example, is largely composed of 29% Chinese, 6% South Asian. It supports, also a "rich-range of multicultural media," including three Chinese-language dailies (Ming Pao, Sing Tao Daily and World Journal." "Daily broadcasts are made in Cantonese, Mandarin, Punjabi, Korean and Tagalong. It's also home to BC's longest running Ukrainian radio program, Nash Holos." There's as many Buddhists as Protestants and Catholics. In all of Vancouver, 47% of the population is of a visible minority group. To learn about other cultures and languages, take a quick trip to the Punjabi Market, Little Italy (common in the northern USA also), Greektown or Japantown. Vancouver constitutes the largest native community in the province of BC, and it hold's one of the countries largest gay communities. That's the very definition of multiculturalism.

Compare that to the southern USA where, the majority, not all, it would be quite difficult to be homosexual, for example, with ministers like Fred Phelps Sr, or rednecks riding around in cars labelled "Fagbug," or teenagers with signs saying "God hates fags!" or "fag=anal=sex=DEATH."

and NO, i am not labelling the USA as all of these people, absolutely not. I'm simply saying that in my experience, Canada, on average, has a great wider variety of culture, languages and religion, and is more accepting of people with different ways of life, compared to numerous locales in the USA.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Shraytus

[benny]

Vancouver for example, is largely composed of 29% Chinese, 6% South Asian. It supports, also a "rich-range of multicultural media," including three Chinese-language dailies (Ming Pao, Sing Tao Daily and World Journal." "Daily broadcasts are made in Cantonese, Mandarin, Punjabi, Korean and Tagalong. It's also home to BC's longest running Ukrainian radio program, Nash Holos." There's as many Buddhists as Protestants and Catholics. In all of Vancouver, 47% of the population is of a visible minority group. To learn about other cultures and languages, take a quick trip to the Punjabi Market, Little Italy (common in the northern USA also), Greektown or Japantown. Vancouver constitutes the largest native community in the province of BC, and it hold's one of the countries largest gay communities. That's the very definition of multiculturalism.

Compare that to the southern USA where, the majority, not all, it would be quite difficult to be homosexual, for example, with ministers like Fred Phelps Sr, or rednecks riding around in cars labelled "Fagbug," or teenagers with signs saying "God hates fags!" or "fag=anal=sex=DEATH."

and NO, i am not labelling the USA as all of these people, absolutely not. I'm simply saying that in my experience, Canada, on average, has a great wider variety of culture, languages and religion, and is more accepting of people with different ways of life, compared to numerous locales in the USA.

Since the notion of culture includes counter-cultures and subcultures, one has to mention also Vancouver's drug addicts.

[lily]

But for the record, if I were Canadian, I'd be able to define myself without comparing myself to the U.S.; I would be proud of my country, my heritage, without giving another thought to what any other nation is or isn't. If I were Canadian, it would bug the heck out of me that too many of my countrymen are unable to do the same.

Most of don't sit around and fret over defining ourselves and our country. When it comes up on boards such as this one, and people do give the definition of what it means to them, there`s always a couple of Americans who will chime in with comments about how the same could be said about them, or that they do it bigger, better and first.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... I'm simply saying that in my experience, Canada, on average, has a great wider variety of culture, languages and religion, and is more accepting of people with different ways of life, compared to numerous locales in the USA.

But clearly this is not true in fact, as the United States is more diverse than Canada, having embraced emmigres in much larger numbers. "Locales in the USA" is codespeak, and it is a simple matter to find ignorant people and behaviours in Canada as well.

[benny]

But clearly this is not true in fact, as the United States is more diverse than Canada, having embraced emmigres in much larger numbers.

Whatever the number of immigrants in Canada, "melting pot" will not define who Canadians are.

[bush_cheney2004]

Whatever the number of immigrants in Canada, "melting pot" will not define who Canadians are.

More people...more languages...more cultures....more in the US of A. We have polar bears too.

[benny]

More people...more languages...more cultures....more in the US of A. We have polar bears too.

More…,more…,more…, paw!

[Smallc]

And I find it interesting that you interpret my statement as "informing Canadians that their definition of their own country isn't good enough." When I say I find it interesting that you define "being Canadian" mostly by stating differences from the U.S., I wasn't saying your definition "isn't good enough." I was saying that I found it interesting. So please try not to accuse me of things that aren't true.

What I'm saying is that it's interesting that we are not allowed to define ourselves as we choose. I don't need the US to define Canada, but using the US does make it easy for some, and for some it is an important part of the definition whether it's interesting or not. We as Canadians live beside a country that parallels us in development and wealth. They also speak the same language as us, and they happen to be the most powerful country in the world. Even before that, there are severeal reasons that John A. Macdonald wanted Canada to stretch from sea to sea....not the least of which was to keep the US out. That's also part of the reason that we built the railway, and part of the reason that the NWMP (later the RCMP) was formed. It is of course reasonable that we are going to compare ourselves to the US given the context and the history. For many Canadians part of being Canadian is not being American, but that isn't all that it is. I don't have time here today to repeat the definition, but perhaps this will help some of you to understand this interesting fact that you so often point at.

And Bambino is right. By saying what you did, you point out one of the important differences between the two countries, a difference that exists to this day. To illustrate, it can be seen that not even Western Canadians are as fearful and hateful of government, taxation, and anything official as many Americans.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Smallc

[benny]

Because the US is placed on the most hospitable land in America, its inhabitants can close their mind to the rest of the world. This of course cannot happen in Canada even if it was the wish of most Canadians.

[noahbody]

Canada needs to define itself as a civilized multicultural society; not as an all-cultural society. At present, we need to stand together against terrorism and gang violence. If we don't, we're excepting both as Canadian values.

[bush_cheney2004]

What I'm saying is that it's interesting that we are not allowed to define ourselves as we choose. I don't need the US to define Canada, but using the US does make it easy for some, and for some it is an important part of the definition whether it's interesting or not. We as Canadians live beside a country that parallels us in development and wealth.

Canada is one dimensional in this respect, having no others on your border. Even the Maritimes were marginalized. A stepchild of Great Britain who gladly traded parts of Canada in treaties with America to garner support. The Americans have a more diverse experience in their development, and clearly distilled an identity that stands on its own. In other words, Canada had no Mexico, no Hawaii, no Philippines, etc., only the Americans.

Edited July 27, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

More people...more languages...more cultures....more in the US of A. We have polar bears too.

Well not on mainland USA, but yes, they are in Alaska. The rest are in zoos.

[benny]

Well not on mainland USA, but yes, they are in Alaska. The rest are in zoos.

Anyway, Alaska is a drilling place, not a thrilling one.