Black Dog Posted February 14, 2007 Report Posted February 14, 2007 Our country isn't going to start laying off cops because pot is legal. That's completely unfounded. Do you deny that large portions of police budgets are allocated to anti-drug policies? No one likes to have their budget chopped. Absolutely I should, and will. When someone's enjoyment of a substance impacts my way of life, I have the right to get involved and stop it. We don't have your perfect anarchist society yet CA, so in current terms if someone's habits impact me negatively financially or otherwise (health care costs, ect.), it stands to be illegal on that basis. Can you quantify the cost to society and you personally? Of copurse, any such calculation would have to specify costs stemming directly from drug use and not costs associated with behaviours stemming from drugs' illegality. As other's have stated here and elsewhere, your enjoyment of an activity (skiing) impacts my way of life if you crack your skull and recquire an airlift off the slopes. Same would apply to people who enjoy other risky activities. So why are you comfortable subsidizing some behaviours and not others? Quote "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis M. Wilhoit
obsidian Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Heroin and Cocaine should be make illegal. other drugs, not so much... consider the sources of heroin and cocaine. 100% of the cocaine comes from south and central america. 100% of the heroin comes from oversea's, and since we invaded afghanistan production has stepped up even higher. the US uses oil much like it does heroin and cocaine. Iraq:-Saddam Hussein was installed, oil is nationalized, iraq joins OPEC -the us pays cash for the oil -Hussein stays in power because he favor(ed)/s the USA's perrogative Peru:-drug dealers influence everything in the country, cocaine is it's largest export. -drug dealers make ALOT of money (USD's) keep in mind by weight, cocaine is worth more than gold -the drug cartels run everything, and support the US's perrogative as long as they have a market for their product and they make money -then the us tries to limit the supply of the cocaine (which they do with oil, diamond, gold, etc) which inturn created a higher demand and inturn a higher price. the same is true with heroin, a perfect example is afghanistan. the US uses this to rape the country. when the corrupt government is happy, they frankly don't care what happens to their people. asides from cocaine and heroins political misuses, they are also killers. they have the most severe addictions, and cause the most deaths. cocaine and heroin dull the senses, you do not gain a new enlightened oppinion, they do nothing positive. on the other hand psilocybin mushrooms and LSD cause drastic changes in thought patterns, new ways of looking at things, resolve to problems, spiritual experiences etc. i believe there was a obvious correlation between the peace movement and the use of psychedelics. AND CANNABIS IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY the uses of cannabis -medicinal -recreational -as a food(seeds, hemp oil) -canvas -hemp paper -hemp ropes -hemp clothes -the oils from cannabis can be synthesized to create bio degradable plastics currently in BC alone the cannabis industry is estimated to be worth 6 billion. thats larger than the vast majority of all canadian industries. AND THAT IS JUST FROM THE SALE OF THE BUDS(flowers). imagine how much revenue could be created from this one plant. hemp creates 4x as much usable pulp to make paper than a forest of the same size. AND TREES TAKE 35 YEARS TO MATURE!!! cannabis is a true miracle plant, and remains illegal because of the enormous profit potential for....THE FARMER. imagine being able to produce and sell all of those materials from 1 plant, "you would be rich i tell you, RiCh!" not to mention the horrible slander they used to make marijuana illegal. there was no medical study before the ban of cannabis. Quote
blueblood Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 AND CANNABIS IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORYthe uses of cannabis -medicinal -recreational -as a food(seeds, hemp oil) -canvas -hemp paper -hemp ropes -hemp clothes -the oils from cannabis can be synthesized to create bio degradable plastics currently in BC alone the cannabis industry is estimated to be worth 6 billion. thats larger than the vast majority of all canadian industries. AND THAT IS JUST FROM THE SALE OF THE BUDS(flowers). imagine how much revenue could be created from this one plant. hemp creates 4x as much usable pulp to make paper than a forest of the same size. AND TREES TAKE 35 YEARS TO MATURE!!! cannabis is a true miracle plant, and remains illegal because of the enormous profit potential for....THE FARMER. imagine being able to produce and sell all of those materials from 1 plant, "you would be rich i tell you, RiCh!" not to mention the horrible slander they used to make marijuana illegal. there was no medical study before the ban of cannabis. Here's one burnouts, why should I have to take care of them. When you get burnt out like some of them they become a burden on society. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
BubberMiley Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Here's one burnouts, why should I have to take care of them. When you get burnt out like some of them they become a burden on society. Then why are you happy spending billions to root them out and put them jail? It's probably a lot cheaper to let them watch TV in their basements all blasted. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
blueblood Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Here's one burnouts, why should I have to take care of them. When you get burnt out like some of them they become a burden on society. Then why are you happy spending billions to root them out and put them jail? It's probably a lot cheaper to let them watch TV in their basements all blasted. Cuz some will be scared out of doing it. Opening the floodgates will cause a problem. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
BubberMiley Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Cuz some will be scared out of doing it. Opening the floodgates will cause a problem. Newsflash: The floodgates are already open. Looking at drug use statistics from before criminalization compared to what they've been since, your plan is not working very well. Looking at the popularity of currently legal drugs like salvia, it appears nothing could make them less popular than legalization. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Wilber Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Somehow we have developed into a society where a huge number of people feel they need behaviour altering drugs as a part of their life. That's the scarey part. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Drea Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Wilber, humans have been trying to "alter" their minds since we became human. Drugs and mind-altering are not new. IMO all drugs should be legalized, regulated and taxed. Then the public should be educated, educated and educated some more. Look at how vilified smokers are today. We are the scourge of the earth. We are scum. We are the absolute worst of the worst. (I smoke btw ;-) Now, if we throw as much money into educating the populace that drugs make you a loser (like cigarette smoking does) then the problem will be solved in one or two generations. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
Charles Anthony Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Then the public should be educated, educated and educated some more.Maybe we can get all of the anti-drug cops to change jobs. We could send them to schools and shopping malls to teach kids about how drugs make them losers. Pay them the same but get rid of the dangerous aspect of their job. Now, if we throw as much money into educating the populace that drugs make you a loser (like cigarette smoking does) then the problem will be solved in one or two generations.I wonder if drugs or smoking cigarettes make you a loser. Could it be that losers have very little to do? Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
Wilber Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Wilber, humans have been trying to "alter" their minds since we became human. Drugs and mind-altering are not new.IMO all drugs should be legalized, regulated and taxed. Then the public should be educated, educated and educated some more. Look at how vilified smokers are today. We are the scourge of the earth. We are scum. We are the absolute worst of the worst. (I smoke btw ;-) Now, if we throw as much money into educating the populace that drugs make you a loser (like cigarette smoking does) then the problem will be solved in one or two generations. I know they are not new but the amount of violence and organized crime surrounding them is greater that ever. Two more drug related killings in Vancouver last night. Even the legal stuff. Seems like half the western world is on anti depressants. They keep telling us we live in the number one country in the world. What do we have to be so depressed about? What do people do in poor countries who have a reason to be depressed and can't afford them. Legalizing and taxing will not work as long as the major market for our illegal drugs is the US and the penalties for manufacturing an selling them are far lower in Canada. Like it or not we are stuck with it until something changes in that market. Education does have to be a big part of it. Other than the health aspect, a big reason I quit smoking was because my kids were so brainwashed it wasn't worth the hassle of being seen by them with a cigarette. They do still allow me an occasional cigar on a special occasion though, specially if I am paying for it. The occasion that is. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 Maybe we can get all of the anti-drug cops to change jobs. We could send them to schools and shopping malls to teach kids about how drugs make them losers. Pay them the same but get rid of the dangerous aspect of their job. Actually most police departments have youth liaison officers who do exactly that. I know ours does. I wonder if drugs or smoking cigarettes make you a loser. Could it be that losers have very little to do? Kids used to find something to do. They didn't always need organized activities or electronic aids. A couple of kids and a ball was about all it usually took. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
obsidian Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 wow bluehood you completely disregard 6 legitimate uses of cannabis by saying "Here's one burnouts, why should I have to take care of them. When you get burnt out like some of them they become a burden on society. " how about adressing any of my points, k thanks. and how about showing me proof they become a burden on society. and thanks for also assuming i use cannabis because i see the many uses of this plant. drugs are a bad thing for stupid people. stupid people who do not know how to interpet the nuances of psychedellics. when you can no longer physically evolve, the only thing left to evolve is the mind. you all think psilocybin and LSD makes you go crazy, think you're invincible, think you can fly etc. however almost all of this is propoganda. if any of you disagree with this, I STRONGLY ADVISE your experimentation with psychedellics. how can you will for something to be illegal you have never experienced. and believe me words can never do it justice. look at aldous huxeley, considered to be one of the most extraordinary minds of the 20th century, and he heavily experimented with mescalin and LSD. all these drugs do is remove filters in our brains that have been constrained upon us. how can a substance create an image? WE DONT EVEN KNOW. Quote
blueblood Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 wow bluehood you completely disregard 6 legitimate uses of cannabis by saying "Here's one burnouts, why should I have to take care of them. When you get burnt out like some of them they become a burden on society. " how about adressing any of my points, k thanks. and how about showing me proof they become a burden on society. and thanks for also assuming i use cannabis because i see the many uses of this plant. drugs are a bad thing for stupid people. stupid people who do not know how to interpet the nuances of psychedellics. when you can no longer physically evolve, the only thing left to evolve is the mind. you all think psilocybin and LSD makes you go crazy, think you're invincible, think you can fly etc. however almost all of this is propoganda. if any of you disagree with this, I STRONGLY ADVISE your experimentation with psychedellics. how can you will for something to be illegal you have never experienced. and believe me words can never do it justice. look at aldous huxeley, considered to be one of the most extraordinary minds of the 20th century, and he heavily experimented with mescalin and LSD. all these drugs do is remove filters in our brains that have been constrained upon us. how can a substance create an image? WE DONT EVEN KNOW. I was adressing recreational. I've seen enough people go on drugs and mess up their life and yes pot included. Plus my tax dollars having to pay for them, big problem. Cannabis would be good for oil and rope and all that when they can genetically modify the THC out of it making it useless. I run a very successful farm and am very happy, why do I need to experiment with psychadelics and drugs and wreck a good thing. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I've done very well for myself staying clean, maybe other people can get on board. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
jbg Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 Look at how vilified smokers are today. We are the scourge of the earth. We are scum. We are the absolute worst of the worst. (I smoke btw ;-) I do not seek to villify smokers, but I do find that your smoke bothers me more than my non-smoke bothers you. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
BubberMiley Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 Cannabis would be good for oil and rope and all that when they can genetically modify the THC out of it making it useless. In other words, it would be useful if you made it useless. You write like a burnout. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Charles Anthony Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 In other words, it would be useful if you made it useless. You write like a burnout.Wait a minute. You are writing like somebody who knows nothing about the history of writing. The reason cannabis was outlawed many years ago is because hemp is a cheap alternative source to making paper instead of from trees. That is the long and the short of it. The THC in cannabis just makes it a convenient scape-goat to convince people like you and to gain public support for cronyism. Hemp for paper Only around 1850 did paper from wood pulp start to replace hemp. Trees were cheap, but now they are rapidly getting depleted. Over a period of 20 years one hectare (ha) of hemp can produce as much paper as four hectares of forest. Japan still imports much of its wood pulp from tropical rainforests which are being destroyed at an alarming rate. http://www.taima.org/en/fibre.htm Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
jbg Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 The reason cannabis was outlawed many years ago is because hemp is a cheap alternative source to making paper instead of from trees. That is the long and the short of it. I had personally thought the reason was even less honorable; US blacks liked it, and it was made illegal out of instincts from the then-prevailing racism (and this is not use of the word "racism" in a tongue-in-cheek sense). Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
margrace Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 I think you are probably both right. Quote
blueblood Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 If Monsanto genetically modified the THC out of hemp/cannabis and threw in the roundup ready/terminator gene, they'd make a fortune. Just imagine roundup ready hemp. Hahahahaha. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Catchme Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 hemp was actually criminalized because of 3 lobby corporations. hemp has very little active THC no one can get stoned from commerical hemp. Dupont, had perfected nylon rope and wanted to corner the market and get rid of the competition of hemp ropes. Eli Whitney patented the use of the cotton gin, and wanted to corner the market on clothing made from cotton as opposed to hemp. hemp is more durable, softer and less hard on the land. William Randolph Hearst patented paper made from tree pulp There are studies showing that the dirty 30's may not have been so bad, if farmers hemp wind breaks were not destroyed, this was a 2 fold factor as they served for wind breaks and the fibres holding the top soild together within the fiberous root networks. and indeed bird species may have gone extinct because of the destruction of naturally occuring hemp plants in the Great Plains areas. hemp is also a great carbon sink. in fact, lot of environmental actions could be enhanced through the legalization of hemp. Quote When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die. ~Jean-Paul Sartre
Charles Anthony Posted February 27, 2007 Report Posted February 27, 2007 Dupont, had perfected nylon rope and wanted to corner the market and get rid of the competition of hemp ropes.Eli Whitney patented the use of the cotton gin, and wanted to corner the market on clothing made from cotton as opposed to hemp. hemp is more durable, softer and less hard on the land. William Randolph Hearst patented paper made from tree pulp Three cheers for patent protection! Hip hip hooray! Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
Mad_Michael Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 One point about the drug 'debate' that I'd like to add is the importance of making a distinction between 'recreational' drugs and so-called 'narcotics' - not to mention various 'medicinal' drugs and 'pharmaceutical' drugs. There's a whole lot of different kinds of drugs going around out there. I might agree to the public policy of treating heroin, crack or meth addictions as a 'disease', but I'll fight strongly against any attempt to include pot or X in such a designation - and what about pharmaceutical tranquilizers? Without making this kind of distinction in drug policies, there's no way one can make any kind of meaningful change in Canadian drug laws. The layers of hypocritical definitions are laid on pretty thick. Quote
Wilber Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 I might agree to the public policy of treating heroin, crack or meth addictions as a 'disease', but I'll fight strongly against any attempt to include pot or X in such a designation - and what about pharmaceutical tranquilizers? Alcohol, tobacco, recreational and prescription drugs can become an addiction just as heroin, crack or meth. An addiction is an addiction, it is either a disease or it is not. Legality is irrelevant. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
geoffrey Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 I STRONGLY ADVISE your experimentation with psychedellics. I strongly advise you stop encouraging people to commit drug offenses. It's against forum policy and against the law. What is with posters these days, this is the second one this week... though this one being much less serious. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
Drea Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 I STRONGLY ADVISE your experimentation with psychedellics. I strongly advise you stop encouraging people to commit drug offenses. It's against forum policy and against the law. What is with posters these days, this is the second one this week... though this one being much less serious. Sheesh... gravol is a hallucinogen if one ingests too many... perhaps Obsidian was encouraging you to use those? ;-) His point (I think)being that there is an unecessary fear of psychedellics and other recreational drugs is completely unfounded. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.