100,000 including Fonda and Sarandon protest

[Leafless]

The validity of the war is simple.

What if the believers all had to go and fight, and only with their own money? End of war! Guaranteed! Rush Limbaugh and Bushki won't be there to fight, that's for sure!

NONE of the believers in the war do really DO believe in the war. They just believe in it if someone else has to fight it, or if they get pay and benefits. (Some quit even with the pay!)

People's opinions are only worth what they are willing support with money and time!

Your funny.

Its the collective forces that count and that fight for a countries interest, nothing to do with with singular opinions where as your contribution is either to agree or disagree.

[Leafless]

BTW, I love the way people in support of this protest throw out high numbers. It wasn't 100,000 protesters. The link itself says 10's of thousands, and at the end of the article it says somewhat under 100,000.

The thread and the number was provided by someone who sought to discredit the protest.

No bias from this end.

Now their quoting 500,000 protesters.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=19321

[blackascoal]

The validity of the war is simple.

What if the believers all had to go and fight, and only with their own money? End of war! Guaranteed! Rush Limbaugh and Bushki won't be there to fight, that's for sure!

NONE of the believers in the war do really DO believe in the war. They just believe in it if someone else has to fight it, or if they get pay and benefits. (Some quit even with the pay!)

People's opinions are only worth what they are willing support with money and time!

GREAT comment.

If there was a draft called .. everybody in America would immediately become a liberal.

[BC_chick]

And for today's dose of reality.....

[geoffrey]

One bad mistake? One bad mistake? Hardly.

True recklessness is/was going into a country and destroying it based upon lies, and then compounding it over and over again.

So the US should just bail on everyone and let the slaughter begin???

Get over yourself already. I took your side at the beginning of the war, I didn't think it was a good idea. So yay, we were right. Now move on, and realise that the situation at hand needs a solution.

And running away to create another Somalia isn't a reasonable solution.

[blackascoal]

This war has been lost for at least two years. All that's left to do is the dying.

Those that proclaim the US can't leave now have no solution on how the US could possibly win .. because it simply is not possible. Of course, those who claim we should stay in spite of the fact that we've already lost, have the luxury of spouting such nonsense because they aren't spouting off from Iraq.

[Riverwind]

So the US should just bail on everyone and let the slaughter begin???

You are assuming that a slaughter would ensue. Many Iraqis refuse to support a gov't which they believe is a puppet of the Americans - that is why wannabe policeman and similar targets are hit. Eliminate the Americans from the equation and you could see that the violance decreases dramatically.

Nothing is for certain at this point in time, however, I don't believe the US troops are physically capable of stabilizing Iraq at this point so keeping them there likely does more harm that good.

[White Doors]

This war has been lost for at least two years. All that's left to do is the dying.

Those that proclaim the US can't leave now have no solution on how the US could possibly win .. because it simply is not possible. Of course, those who claim we should stay in spite of the fact that we've already lost, have the luxury of spouting such nonsense because they aren't spouting off from Iraq.

Ironic that Coalition soldiers REPEATEDLY tell us to stay the course and that good things are happening isn't it? Are you a coalition soldier or are you just parroting the MSM?

[Riverwind]

Ironic that Coalition soldiers REPEATEDLY tell us to stay the course and that good things are happening isn't it? Are you a coalition soldier or are you just parroting the MSM?

Really? I have heard such talk from soliders in Afgahnistan but I have never heard such talk from soldiers in Iraq.

[White Doors]

So the US should just bail on everyone and let the slaughter begin???

You are assuming that a slaughter would ensue. Many Iraqis refuse to support a gov't which they believe is a puppet of the Americans - that is why wannabe policeman and similar targets are hit. Eliminate the Americans from the equation and you could see that the violance decreases dramatically.

Nothing is for certain at this point in time, however, I don't believe the US troops are physically capable of stabilizing Iraq at this point so keeping them there likely does more harm that good.

Any observer with no agenda would agree that this is now a war between Sunni's and Shiites. The Sunni's boycotted the elections and are now trying to regain control on their fiefdom. The only thing that has changed is that the Shiities are fighting back albeait in barbaric ways. You need 'boots on the ground' to bring a sense of stability and safety to those that are determined to kill more of those that 'your side' has lost. Increased security should help this.

[scribblet]

So the US should just bail on everyone and let the slaughter begin???

Get over yourself already. I took your side at the beginning of the war, I didn't think it was a good idea. So yay, we were right. Now move on, and realise that the situation at hand needs a solution.

And running away to create another Somalia isn't a reasonable solution.

Hanoi Jane, back after apologizing for her actions in the Vietnam war and helping the enemy.

The slaughter has allready started, the insurgents are killing Iraqis with impunity. If the U.S. pulls out now it will be worse. The only solution I can think of is for thousands more troops from as many other places as possible, complete martial law and the borders sealed, that can't last forever either.

Someone has to figure out how the US military can withdraw from Iraq without Iraq completely collapsing into worse anarchy. What would be the worst case scenario if the U.S. said they would pull out over the next year, sort it out yourselves. And no woulda, shoulda coulda.

[White Doors]

Ironic that Coalition soldiers REPEATEDLY tell us to stay the course and that good things are happening isn't it? Are you a coalition soldier or are you just parroting the MSM?

Really? I have heard such talk from soliders in Afgahnistan but I have never heard such talk from soldiers in Iraq.

Are you being serious of polynewbie-ish?

[Liam]

Movie stars fueling unpatriotic actions.

They fail to acknowledge what is at stake.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_t..._sarandon_.html

OK, I'm convinced. It is my patriotic duty to surrender my own free will and support whatever my government tells me.

You know, there used to be a time when being a conservative meant requiring government to show results before extending more trust to it. As of today, Bush hasn't earned one moment of the public's trust.

People like Sarandon and Fonda are speaking their minds. If anything, they're being more patriotic than you.

[Canadian Blue]

I think the right to protest is patriotic, to say otherwise would be "unpatriotic" as being able to protest is a fundamental liberty.

[Catchme]

One bad mistake? One bad mistake? Hardly.

True recklessness is/was going into a country and destroying it based upon lies, and then compounding it over and over again.

So the US should just bail on everyone and let the slaughter begin???

Get over yourself already. I took your side at the beginning of the war, I didn't think it was a good idea. So yay, we were right. Now move on, and realise that the situation at hand needs a solution.

And running away to create another Somalia isn't a reasonable solution.

The slaughter began when the USA invaded Iraq illegally based on lies. It cannot begin after the fact.

Juxpositioning Iraq with Somalia isn't a reasonable one.

The US should NOT have been there and should not be there.

[geoffrey]

The slaughter began when the USA invaded Iraq illegally based on lies. It cannot begin after the fact.

Juxpositioning Iraq with Somalia isn't a reasonable one.

The US should NOT have been there and should not be there.

Illegally, says who? Who makes such laws? Surely not the UN, they are known to selectively enforce them so those are definitely not relevant... ok soo.... again, which court decided it was illegal? Or is this the CatchMe court of zero relevance's decision?

Is your entire argument based on they shouldn't have been there, so now they shouldn't be there? Do you apply your same ridiculous logic to every last illegal immigrant in Canada? Or eventually do we have to look at the current situation and determine a pragmatic solution?

Riverwind presented some arguments on why the US shouldn't be there... let's hear yours. Or is there anything original beyond rhetoric there?

[Catchme]

It seems the Middle East link reporting on this protest was accurate. Reports are coming out that there was at least 500k protesting today in Washington. That is impressive!

[blackascoal]

So the US should just bail on everyone and let the slaughter begin???

Get over yourself already. I took your side at the beginning of the war, I didn't think it was a good idea. So yay, we were right. Now move on, and realise that the situation at hand needs a solution.

And running away to create another Somalia isn't a reasonable solution.

Hanoi Jane, back after apologizing for her actions in the Vietnam war and helping the enemy.

The slaughter has allready started, the insurgents are killing Iraqis with impunity. If the U.S. pulls out now it will be worse. The only solution I can think of is for thousands more troops from as many other places as possible, complete martial law and the borders sealed, that can't last forever either.

Someone has to figure out how the US military can withdraw from Iraq without Iraq completely collapsing into worse anarchy. What would be the worst case scenario if the U.S. said they would pull out over the next year, sort it out yourselves. And no woulda, shoulda coulda.

Predictions of a "nightmare scenario" if the US leaves is the same crap that was supposedly going to happen if we left Vietnam .. which of course did not happen.

Other nations are not going to send troops to Iraq, in fact, they've been getting out as fast as they can, and the british are going to leave as soon as Blair's ass is kicked out the door. The US started this mindless misadventure and the rest of the world is leaving it to the US to figure out by itself.

It is only a matter of time before the US faces its Saigon moment in Iraq and no one, including you, have any real possible solution that would allow the Bush Administration to save face or eek out the slightest modicum of a "victory". We've already given the victory to Iran.

All that's left to do in Iraq for US troops is more dying.

[Catchme]

You're quite correct blackascoal, but there are many reasons why Bush will not leave and no of them have to do with preventing the chaos that is in Iraq.

And people should really stick with their first instincts they are usually correct.

Here is a link to a picture from someone who was there, 500,000 is one huge amount of people and they represent even more across the USA. Finally they woke up! But oh so late for so many Iraqis and the country.

[blackascoal]

You're quite correct blackascoal, but there are many reasons why Bush will not leave and no of them have to do with preventing the chaos that is in Iraq.

And people should really stick with their first instincts they are usually correct.

Here is a link to a picture from someone who was there, 500,000 is one huge amount of people and they represent even more across the USA. Finally they woke up! But oh so late for so many Iraqis and the country.

You are indeed correct .. as usual..

The right wants to focus on Jane Fonda to detrect from the clear message sent by thye vast amount of other people who gathered. It's easier for them to attack Fonda than attack the American people.

Having been a part of many protests and the Million Man March, I'm acutely aware of their penchant to undercount those who attend.

[Black Dog]

I personally don't give a shit about the last 3 years up to the point, these leftist loonies have to start looking at the current situation at hand. I was against the invasion of Iraq initially, but now I strongly support US involvement... Iraq will degenerate further into the biggest mess we've seen since Rwanda if the US (preferably other countries too) aren't there.

It's looking like that's the way it's going to go whether the Americans are there or not. An escalation into a full blown civil or regional war is probably inevitable. With that in mind, the questuion to Americans beciomes: how many Americans are going to die in the crossfire?

The American troops as a fact of matter is all that's holding togethers a fragile, but democratic, regime.

Holding together? I think you mean "propping up."

The country that the militarized Sunni terrorists will get is another of oppression of Shiites and the Kurds. That's simply not acceptable

As oppossed to the country the Shiites will get with the oppression of Sunnis and Kurds and the institution of another sharia legal system.

When the police leave town, shit hits the fan. I don't see why this wouldn't apply in Iraq.

Well first you have to show that the U.S. is actually a factor in detrmining the level of internecine violence. I don't think that's the case.

They aren't blowing up Americans Riverwind. They are mainly blowing up people that want to be police officers, construction workers, things like that. These Sunni terrorists are against having peace in Iraq, as they realise that it would be the end of their apartheid over the other groups.

You're going way too easy on the Shiites. They are the one's who in the guise of serving the Iraqi government are behind soame rather abhorrant acts of violence and ethnic cleansing.

For example.

There's plenty of black hats to go around. The assumption that the Shia are the "good guys" because they are supporrted by the U.S. is foolish.

running away to create another Somalia isn't a reasonable solution.

What makes you think a reasonable solution is within the U.S. or western nations' powers to acheive, hmmm?

This whole venture was concived in and continue sto be guided by a phenomonal amount of arrogance. First there was the arrogant assumption that "we" could bring democracy to these poor unlightened swarthy folks. Now there's the assumption that "we" can get them to stop killing each other. The notion that "we," for all our economic and military might, and all our good intentions, can't do a damn thing is seldom discussed.

[Wilber]

The right wants to focus on Jane Fonda to detrect from the clear message sent by thye vast amount of other people who gathered. It's easier for them to attack Fonda than attack the American people.

I don't think most Canadians appreciate how much Fonda is hated by the majority of Viet Nam vets, regardless of their feelings about being in that war.

[newbie]

I don't think most Canadians appreciate how much Fonda is hated by the majority of Viet Nam vets, regardless of their feelings about being in that war.

I think it's time to move on. Fonda is ancient history. If the vets can't let go of that, I encourage them to seek counselling.

[BubberMiley]

Movie stars fueling unpatriotic actions.

I find it terribly ironic that someone with the screen name Leafless (which he defines as meaning the maple leaf does not represent him), and who is opposed to the very constitution of his country, would criticize others for being unpatriotic because they are opposed to their government. If they're unpatriotic, you should have been tried for treason when the Liberals were in power.

[sharkman]

I don't think most Canadians appreciate how much Fonda is hated by the majority of Viet Nam vets, regardless of their feelings about being in that war.

I think it's time to move on. Fonda is ancient history. If the vets can't let go of that, I encourage them to seek counselling.

I think it's time to move on. Fonda is ancient history. If she can't let go of her hate on for anything military, I encourage her to seek counselling.