Muslim leader advocates execution of Gays

[JerrySeinfeld]

Here is the link http://www.gcn.ie/content/templates/newsup...09&zoneid=4

The leading imam in Manchester, confirms that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified, the rights group Outrage reported.

Arshad Misbahi of the Manchester Central Mosque confirmed his views in a conversation to John Casson, a local psychotherapist.

Casson said: "I asked him if the execution of gay Muslims in Iran and Iraq was an acceptable punishment in Sharia law, or the result of culture, not religion.

"He told me that in a true Islamic state, such punishments were part of Islam: If the person had had a trial, at which four witnesses testified that they had seen the actual homosexual acts."

"I asked him what would be the British Muslim view? He repeated that in an Islamic state these punishments were justified. They might result in the deaths of thousands but if this deterred millions from having sex, and spreading disease, then it was worthwhile to protect the wider community."

"I checked again that this was not a matter of tradition, culture or local prejudice. 'No,' he said, 'It is part of the central tenets of Islam: that sex outside marriage is forbidden; this is stated in the Koran and the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had stated that these punishments were due to such behaviours.'"

Gay man rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said, "It is disturbing that some British imams are endorsing the execution of gay and lesbian Muslims.

"Imam Arshad Misbahi's homophobic attitudes give comfort and succor to queer-bashers. They encourage conflict and disharmony between Manchester's large gay and Muslim communities.

"Muslim and gay people know the pain of prejudice and discrimination. We should be working together to challenge homophobia and Islamophobia. I hope liberal Muslims will speak out in defense of the human rights of lesbians and gay men," said Tatchell.

Adnan Ali, founder of the British branch of al-Fatiha, an organisation for gay and lesbian Muslims, told Gay.com that "a person with such an obsession about execution of human beings is not even entitled to be addressed as Imam."

"Islam is a very tolerant religion and celebrates the human diversity in its core message," Ali said.

"The holy book Qur'an does not mention anywhere about the execution or killing of human beings on the basis of their sexuality. What surprises is this obsession of the Islamic clerics to killing and execution. Why? What about dialogue? Discussion?

"Arshad Misbahi's comparison of same-sex relation to adultery is nothing but ignorant and utterly irresponsible rhetoric, manifesting the wrong teachings of Islam. The media should . . . not take it for granted as the general view of the Muslim community all over."

[Shakeyhands]

This should cause some consternation with some of our posters here..... agreeing with the muslims and all.... geesh!

[lost&outofcontrol]

Worship of a "god" is but one manifestation of the delusions of the religious. Christians have plenty of ridiculous aspects too; such things are hardly constrained to Jews, Buddhists or Muslims.

[JerrySeinfeld]

This should cause some consternation with some of our posters here..... agreeing with the muslims and all.... geesh!

I love this kind of suff. It throws the left into a confused tizzy when two of your favorite pet projcets are at odds with eachother

It's even better when the source is a gay website - my gosh how in heavens name can a lefty ad hominem on that one? hahahahahha

[Black Dog]

I love this kind of suff. It throws the left into a confused tizzy when two of your favorite pet projcets are at odds with eachother

Where as right-wingers have no qualms about pretending to give a shit about gays as long as they can use it to attack their other nemesis: brown people.

As for the inam: why would anyone be surprised? Islam, unlike its judeo Christian counterparts, hasn't yet mastered the art of hiding its abiding homophobia behind a veneer of concern for freedom of speech. Perhaps Calgary's Bishop Henry should go and give seminars on "concealing homophobia".

[Guest Warwick Green]

The leading imam in Manchester, confirms that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified, the rights group Outrage reported.

He's advocating murder. He should be arrested and charged. And it has nothing to do with his religion. The same would apply to anybody doing the same.

[Liam]

This should cause some consternation with some of our posters here..... agreeing with the muslims and all.... geesh!

So, you advocate the excution of (or at least, physical harm to) gay people?

I wish you luck with your moral bedfellows. You had a choice between secualr, rational, western thought, yet you chose to align with the narrowest representatives of a faith that aims to undermine freedom and individuality. From this point on, I will continue to remind you in whose league you have chosen to reside. If you had one scintilla of a conscience, you'd be ashamed of yourself.

[Shakeyhands]

This should cause some consternation with some of our posters here..... agreeing with the muslims and all.... geesh!

So, you advocate the excution of (or at least, physical harm to) gay people?

I wish you luck with your moral bedfellows. You had a choice between secualr, rational, western thought, yet you chose to align with the narrowest representatives of a faith that aims to undermine freedom and individuality. From this point on, I will continue to remind you in whose league you have chosen to reside. If you had one scintilla of a conscience, you'd be ashamed of yourself.

Well first of all I was kidding, and secondly I was taking a swipe at our right wing friends... great senses of humour and cognitive skills guys......

[Liam]

This should cause some consternation with some of our posters here..... agreeing with the muslims and all.... geesh!

I love this kind of suff. It throws the left into a confused tizzy when two of your favorite pet projcets are at odds with eachother

It's even better when the source is a gay website - my gosh how in heavens name can a lefty ad hominem on that one? hahahahahha

Look, if you want to show your allegiance to Islamic radicals who want to kill or beat up gays, at least be a man to say it up front. Don't hide behind them like some wet-pantied little school boys.

[jbg]

This should cause some consternation with some of our posters here..... agreeing with the muslims and all.... geesh!

How do you feel about this, being a leftist, lover of gays and lover of Radical Islam? Does it conflict your mind at all?

[Electric Monk]

This may not even be classified hate propaganda, due to section 319, 3b of the Canadian Criminal code, as I mentioned on another thread here. Now do you see why the language needs to be changed?

[myata]

How do you feel about this, being a leftist, lover of gays and lover of Radical Islam? Does it conflict your mind at all?

Are you guys seriously challenged (after all the hints that whackos and weirdos exist in all ways and so on...), or just love to take every opportunity to bash that "leftist" that may only exist in your vivid (and oftentimes livid) imagination, or both? Seriously...

[scribblet]

Left/right wing bashing aside, you have to admit it is a conundrum for the left which allows no discussion on radical Islam without the usual name calling. Wonder what they are saying about it.

[kimmy]

He's advocating murder. He should be arrested and charged. And it has nothing to do with his religion. The same would apply to anybody doing the same.

In Canada, Christians can (and have) been charged under hate crimes legislsation for quoting religious teachings regarding homosexuality. The case of the Saskatchewan man who was successfully prosecuted for hate speech for buying a newspaper ad that quoted the Bible on the subject is the well known example.

I'm very curious as to whether the law would be as eager to go after Muslims on the subject as it has been to go after Christians.

And Black Dog, why do you feel that this is about right-wingers vs Brown People? This is a dichotomy that's going to get increasingly confused over the next few years, as many of the most conservative people in this country are, in fact, brown people. Surely I'm not the only one who recalls how upset the Liberals got over the gay marriage issue when Stephen Harper was attempting to reach out to Sikhs on "family values", or when the Golden Temple in Amritsar gave the Liberals the smack-down over the issue. The old line of thought that equated right-wing with white and Christian and Liberal with all the colors of the rainbow and all the faiths of the earth is going to go the way of the passenger pigeon.

And while conservative Christianity might indeed be better at hiding its bigotry than conservative Islam, I'd suggest that a more significant difference is that Christians, even the most conservative, have accepted that religious law doesn't hold sway in western democracies, which apparently is a distinction that some conservative Muslims are having a difficult time with.

I'm a lot more in line with August's view on the issue: the battle for our country's future isn't between White People and Brown People, or Christians vs Muslims. It's rationality vs obscurantism.

-k

[scribblet]

I'm a lot more in line with August's view on the issue: the battle for our country's future isn't between White People and Brown People, or Christians vs Muslims. It's rationality vs obscurantism.

-k

Exactly, it is not the colour of one's skin that is the issue, it is how different cultures adapt to democracy and our ideas of tolerance for all views. We cannot accept any culture or religion that attempts to set itself apart by having its own laws, we have to make it clear that one can worship the sun for all we care, just don't threaten to kill people with whom you don't like, or threat Jihad for perceived sleights, and accept that we live in a democracy where we have free will, including women.

As far as I know it is the only faith that tells its followers to seek political power and impose their law — sharia — in order that the rest of society conforms to their beliefs. Is it possible to say you can come here but you must abide by our laws and conform to our mainstream ideals of democracy and freedom of speech - I'm not sure because their religion forbids it does it not?

[gc1765]

How do you feel about this, being a leftist, lover of gays and lover of Radical Islam? Does it conflict your mind at all?

I know this question was not adressed to me, but as a "leftists" I would like to answer....

I don't think ANYONE on the left is a "lover of Radical Islam". In other words, I don't think anyone on the left is advocating the death of homosexuals. What people on the left, including myself, do defend is Muslims in general. There are some people on the right who like to make sweeping generalizations. They see a few Muslims advocating the death of homosexuals, or blowing themselves up, and they think ALL Muslims are bad. Those few Muslims are indefensible, and to suggest that people on the left are defending this type of action is simply wrong (from what I have seen). The left stands up for moderate Muslims, not the extreme ones.

[jbg]

How do you feel about this, being a leftist, lover of gays and lover of Radical Islam? Does it conflict your mind at all?

I know this question was not adressed to me, but as a "leftists" I would like to answer....

I appreciate your addressing the issue, though I do not believe you address the real issue, which obviously is the fact that the left seems to romance groups that ultimately are hostile to the openness and freedom of society.

[gc1765]

I appreciate your addressing the issue, though I do not believe you address the real issue, which obviously is the fact that the left seems to romance groups that ultimately are hostile to the openness and freedom of society.

No, I think my post proved otherwise. No one on the left is romancing people who advocate the death of homosexuals (and if there are any "leftists" who would defend this type of action, then I am ashamed to call myself a leftist, but so far I have seen none). Just because a moderate muslim identifies themself as a Muslim, and someone who advocates the death of homosexuals also identifies themself as a Muslim, does not mean these two people share the same beliefs on the treatment of homosexuals. This is what I have been trying to argue all along. If you still disagree with me, then perhaps trying thinking of Islam as two separate religions, call them "Moderate Islam" and "Extreme Islam". I think you will find that the left will defend "moderate Islam", but I don't think anyone on the left will defend the type of muslim who advocates the death of homosexuals.

[myata]

The "conundrum" only exists in your head. Any rational person, whether of left or right politically minded, can understand the difference between a whacko saying idiotic things and the general group of people the whacko happens to belong to.

[jbg]

The "conundrum" only exists in your head. Any rational person, whether of left or right politically minded, can understand the difference between a whacko saying idiotic things and the general group of people the whacko happens to belong to.

Oh yes. We see, every day, the vocal condemnation by the Muslim mainstream community of the numerous cowardly attacks on innocent, unarmed people in tall buildings, restaraunts, places of worship, etc.

[August1991]

Where as right-wingers have no qualms about pretending to give a shit about gays as long as they can use it to attack their other nemesis: brown people.

I agree with you, BD. It is ironic that gays may be the next Poster Kids of the Right Wing.

As for the inam: why would anyone be surprised? Islam, unlike its judeo Christian counterparts, hasn't yet mastered the art of hiding its abiding homophobia behind a veneer of concern for freedom of speech. Perhaps Calgary's Bishop Henry should go and give seminars on "concealing homophobia".

I'd go with the civilized veneer any day. Often, it's the difference between life and death.

[myata]

What is the meaning of "mainstream community"?

In what context do you expect condemnation to be made?

When US bombed a family wedding in Iraq, was there a condemnation by the "mainstream Christian community"?

[sharkman]

I find it sad that those on the left who responded to this thread for the most part(except for Liam) chose not to be critical of the Muslim cleric in question, but instead took the opportunity to be critical of Christians, which were not in this particular story whatsoever. The guy advocates the murder of gays and it doesn't matter unless he's a Christian. Pathetic.

[Electric Monk]

After re-reading this thread, I found that most criticised extremists from both religions.

[bradco]

I think theres a few people in here that failed to read the entire article...

""Arshad Misbahi's comparison of same-sex relation to adultery is nothing but ignorant and utterly irresponsible rhetoric, manifesting the wrong teachings of Islam. The media should . . . not take it for granted as the general view of the Muslim community all over."

Way too many people like to generalize. Not all muslims are freedom hating, women and jew hating terorrists. Just as not all Christians are intolerant bigots.

"I find it sad that those on the left who responded to this thread for the most part(except for Liam) chose not to be critical of the Muslim cleric in question"

Its pretty much impied that nobody on the left agrees with anything some nutjob like this says. Radicals like this have absolutly no desire to see the middle east become a civil and free society. The reason "leftists", I believe, are usually quicker to go after radical Christians is because they claim to want a civil and free society yet consistantly oppose minority groups. Radical Islamists, for the most part, never claim to want anything other than a religious state. As a liberal (which is not a lefitist) my concern is with those who believe that intolerance and racist thinking has any place in our society. Radical Islamists like this nutjob dont believe in free and civil societies while right wing religious folk claim they do.