Pierre Calls For An End To Temporary Worker Program.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Your first claim is they couldn't possible pay people that much followed by your claim that they're paying people that much

Of course they can't pay people that much. Instead they're closing their doors and going out of business.

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Are you saying it’s just as pleasant and easy to live in a city of Thunder Bay as London?

London, Ontario? London, UK has many hardships of its own. Getting around it is a pain for starters. I went to the National Gallery in London last year. It was almost as uncomfortably crowded as the multiple tube trains that brought me there, not quite as bad as the Sistine Chapel but not far off. I won’t be going back. 

Life has become a lot easier in locations like Thunder Bay which is a substantial enough place. The Internet, Amazon deliveries, TV apps and, for the fortunate, remote working have made life less deprived than it used to be. There’s a pleasure to not being hemmed in by crowds or traffic that many people don’t even know they are missing out on.

As I say, we don’t even seem to want to talk about where we are all literally heading in this country. How ghastly will Greater Toronto and Vancouver be if they are to be our final collective destination? I see this reticence with young people in particular. They don’t want to articulate where they want to end up, at least with me. Perhaps they aren’t consciously aware of the centripetal forces pulling them inward? 
 

 

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's what restaurants, stores, and hotels are competing with

No, it absolutely is not. Show me the job that is like being a waiter or retail clerk that pays that much.

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

How are they depressing wages when a kid fresh out of high school can start working at $73000 a year?

Because they can't. Except, perhaps, in a few isolated places for a few, isolated jobs. 

But the great mass of foreign workers are not out in the boonies, but in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and other large cities.

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

You live in a big city which might as well be on a different planet as far as rural economies work.  

Yes, people have been leaving small, rural areas for the big cities for a long time - because there are no jobs in rural areas, or at least, none that pay much. If you're saying that's reversed, then maybe those kids wouldn't be leaving for the big cities, eh? Unless those jobs are few and far between.

[I am Groot]

7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

London, Ontario?

Obviously.

7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

London, UK has many hardships of its own. Getting around it is a pain for starters.

Yes, London UK is a mess, largely because it's full of bloody foreigners. None of whom seem to have much interest in integration. 

7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Life has become a lot easier in locations like Thunder Bay which is a substantial enough place. The Internet, Amazon deliveries, TV apps and, for the fortunate, remote working have made life less deprived than it used to be. There’s a pleasure to not being hemmed in by crowds or traffic that many people don’t even know they are missing out on.

Not a lot of crowds or heavy traffic in London either, but much better weather.

7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

As I say, we don’t even seem to want to talk about where we are all literally heading in this country. How ghastly will Greater Toronto and Vancouver be if they are to be our final collective destination?

Well, Carney's mentors at the Century Initiative, two of whom he's put on his council of advisors, want 100 million Canadians, and that's going to mean the population of Toronto would be, if I recall from the document, about 20 million. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

No, it absolutely is not. Show me the job that is like being a waiter or retail clerk that pays that much.

It's a matter of being a Canadian worker who expects or needs that much I guess. You saw the video, Canadians are not applying for these jobs in the boonies. 80 percent of applications at a job fair for clerks, housekeepers and servers were from immigrants.

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Yes, people have been leaving small, rural areas for the big cities for a long time - because there are no jobs in rural areas, or at least, none that pay much. If you're saying that's reversed, then maybe those kids wouldn't be leaving for the big cities, eh? Unless those jobs are few and far between.

If you think Canada can function economically without it's rural areas, or by a similar token if you think cities should dictate to those areas how they should function you're dreaming if you think that'll fly.

In your world economic activity outside cities will be dominated by resource extraction performed by foreign contractors. TFW's IOW. Many who will likely be happy for the opportunity and put down roots just like...Canadians.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

What I’m getting from all that is that you live nowhere near a remote community in Canada, don't know what it’s like and don’t care either.

 

Well then you're not very bright. Which comes as no shock.

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So why should I take what you and PP say seriously?

Because we're correct and you're not, but the problem is not why you should but that you won't even if you should

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You see problems with TFW in large urban centres and simplistically extrapolate that to the whole country. 

Not really. Well the problems may be more severe in major urban centers exist everywhere and the temporary foreign worker program winds up being a bit of a cheat code that allows smaller communities to not have to address other problems.

Hell I grew up spending a good hunk of each year in a little town was 28 people. The next biggest town was about 8 miles away and had about 300 people. That kind of area. The program didn't even exist then and you know what, all the jobs got done.

The TFW program is an easy fix but it is by far and away not the only way to address the challenges that small towns face. And you're a liar if you pretend differently.

Agricultural pursuits would be about the only exception and even the conservatives have said they would leave that program open.

So why should I take what you and PP say seriously? You see problems with TFW in large urban centres and simplistically extrapolate that to the whole country. 
 

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I would really love to see some detail on your suggestions for this. How exactly can this be done? Will black magic be involved? Putting it in block capitals doesn't give me any clues. I can tell you one thing. If this cunning little populist plan ever sees the light of day our cities will be burdened with internal migrants with nowhere else to go. 

Yeah, you sound really interested legitimately. I could tell you were being sincere when you brought up black magic 🙄🙄🙄🙄

Every specific circumstances different but there are dozens of ways to attract people to work in your community either from other parts of the province or Canada or locally if you do things right. That has been the case for well over a hundred years in Canada the twf program as it is today has only been around for about 15 18 years or so.

When I was a young kid we got talked into working for a summer up north in a small community and it was possible because of a government program that helped get youth working specifically in remote communities. Employers got tax breaks, we got work and work experience, we got exposed to smaller communities and some people chose to stay in those communities.  That's just one of dozens of different ways.

Don't pretend you're talking to some 20-year-old urbanite kiddo. I've spent tons of time working and living in smaller communities and right now I don't live in the city. Sure I've done my years living in the major Metro but I'm absolutely no stranger to small town life or business. My family has run general stores and towns where the population doesn't even get past triple digits even if you include the dogs.

 

You sound like a teenager with this "You people just don't understand what it's like to be me" Bullshit. If you want to talk about something specific in your town great we can do that but let's not pretend for a moment that there aren't other solutions to the various problems towns face other than the temporary foreign worker program the exception of a very small number of Industries
 

[I am Groot]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's a matter of being a Canadian worker who expects or needs that much I guess. You saw the video, Canadians are not applying for these jobs in the boonies. 80 percent of applications at a job fair for clerks, housekeepers and servers were from immigrants.

And again, they will apply for the jobs if the employer makes those jobs worth applying for. Boot all the immigrants out and what do the employers do? They raise their offers and make working for them more pleasant. Yes, they may have to accept lower profits or raise their prices. So be it. And if the alternative is going out of business, then that community clearly didn't value that service enough to pay what that employer needed to stay in business. Creative destruction. Something else will arise.

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

If you think Canada can function economically without it's rural areas, or by a similar token if you think cities should dictate to those areas how they should function you're dreaming if you think that'll fly.

Rural areas have always gotten by. Their biggest problem has always been that there aren't any good jobs, so young people drift into the cities.

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

In your world economic activity outside cities will be dominated by resource extraction performed by foreign contractors

There's no reason we should allow that. And I don't see how the TFW program makes a difference as to whether that happens or not.  You saw that situation in the US where ICE raided a Hyundai factory and carted out 300 South Korean workers. Now they'll have to hire Americans, even if that means training them and paying more.

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

TFW's IOW. Many who will likely be happy for the opportunity and put down roots just like...Canadians.

Maybe we Canadians don't want more foreigners here just now. There are far too many as it is. Including many with Canadian passports who are no different at all from their kindred 'back home' and have no intention of changing their ways.

[I am Groot]

Mark Carney says it's wrong to rely on foreign workers for low wage jobs.

Or at least, said it, back before he became a politician. Now he's changed his mind.

Prime Minister Mark Carney used to get this. Back in 2013, when he was governor of the Bank of Canada, he told a parliamentary committee that “one doesn’t want an overreliance on temporary foreign workers for lower-skill jobs, which prevent the wage adjustment mechanism from making sure that Canadians are paid higher wages but also that firms improve their productivity.”

He added that temporary foreign workers should be for “those higher-skilled gaps that do exist.”

In plain English, he said that bringing in highly skilled people to fill high-wage jobs was good for Canada, but allowing business easy access to lots of temporary foreign workers for entry-level jobs was a recipe for suppressing the wages of low-wage Canadians, and discouraging companies from raising productivity through labour-saving technologies.

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-yes-canada-should-mostly-end-our-temporary-foreign-worker-programs/

[CdnFox]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Of course they can't pay people that much. Instead they're closing their doors and going out of business.

Are you sure? Is that your final answer? You've been insisting they did pay people that before.   Sounds like you're having trouble keeping your lies straight this morning. You should use a white board. 

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Instead they're closing their doors and going out of business.

No they're not. And that's a dumb thing to say, if they ARE closing their doors and going out of business the TFW program isn't doing them any good anyway is it.  Ooooopssieee!!!  

Fact is they won't go out of business. They may have to juggle some things and make changes but they'll stay afloat just as they did in the 120 years before the program came along.  

Like i said the program is an easy cheat but it's hardly the only solution. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Conservatives are supposed to be realistic but not on this issue. Anyway, I would be very surprised if PP really stood by this if he ever sees power. It’s only meat for the more gullible section of the base. Reform, yes, but complete abolition? He’s not that daft. 

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Conservatives are supposed to be realistic but not on this issue.

And yet you have failed at every turn to offer a reasonable explanation as to why it would be impossible to address any of the issues that this program addresses in another way.

This is how liberals argue when they're losing, they make baseless vague assertions that the other side is just not being reasonable or doesn't understand or is uneducated on the subject and then attempts to flee without ever having offered the slightest evidence to back up their claims

It's pretty rich that you talk about being reasonable without offering even a single reason.

[Goddess]

UN report on Canada's temporary foreign workers details the many ways they've been abused | CBC News

Obokata's report blames the abuse in part on a power imbalance — temporary foreign workers are tied to their employers through so-called "closed work permits" that only allow them to work for the employer who applied to bring them to Canada

The report says employers argue closed work permits are necessary to allow them to recuperate the cost of recruiting and transporting workers, creating "a de facto debt bondage."

 

[CdnFox]

15 hours ago, Goddess said:

UN report on Canada's temporary foreign workers details the many ways they've been abused | CBC News

Obokata's report blames the abuse in part on a power imbalance — temporary foreign workers are tied to their employers through so-called "closed work permits" that only allow them to work for the employer who applied to bring them to Canada

The report says employers argue closed work permits are necessary to allow them to recuperate the cost of recruiting and transporting workers, creating "a de facto debt bondage."

 

Yep. Welcome to indentured servitude 2025

[eyeball]

16 hours ago, Goddess said:

The report says employers argue closed work permits are necessary to allow them to recuperate the cost of recruiting and transporting workers, creating "a de facto debt bondage."

Maybe employers can get away with this in big cities where there's a lot more anonymity but not out in the small towns where everybody knows everybody.

[herbie]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Maybe employers can get away with this in big cities where there's a lot more anonymity but not out in the small towns where everybody knows everybody.

Small towns where TFWs get 0 jobs in mines or mills and 0 young ppl apply at Subway. And then they work their butts off, working like they actually should and impress the whole town into sponsoring them.
Now 2 are govt agents, cuz no one else applied for those jobs either!

BC only brought in 11,000 TFWs last year. That's comparatively few ppl to raise such a shitstorm over.

[CdnFox]

On 9/10/2025 at 11:00 AM, eyeball said:

Maybe employers can get away with this in big cities where there's a lot more anonymity but not out in the small towns where everybody knows everybody.

Exploitation is EASIER in the small towns when it comes to tfw.  Not harder.