Dougie93 Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: It's not serious. If it were, his own team wouldn't be disagreeing with it. flood the zone ; chaos is a ladder Quote
Army Guy Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 On 2/5/2025 at 8:03 PM, blackbird said: If another country like Jordan or Egypt allows itself to be used as a base for a terrorist group, then that is on them and they must accept the consequences. The thing is the government of those countries can choose to ban any terrorist group from operating on their territory and they have the military to do it. The idea is to eliminate any terrorist groups from operating. As it is now, Hamas blends in with the population of Gaza and is made of Palestinians so it is impossible to get rid of them in the Gaza strip as Israel well knows. If they were relocated to another country, then it would then be that country's responsibility to deal with them. If you check i think Jordan and Egypt and other have already hosted large numbers of palestinians (PLO) in the end they ran them out with their militaries, those wounds are still pretty fresh in their minds and i'm sure they don't want a repeat...Not many countries have had good experiences with the palestinians... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Dougie93 Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 On 2/5/2025 at 6:53 PM, Queenmandy85 said: It was a mistake to put Israel into Palestine. A better move would be to move Israel to Oregon and allow the Palestinians to reclaim their land. Oregon has a similar climate and the neighbours would be more welcoming. nobody put the Zionists into Palestine the British Crown denied them entry; they were turned back, sent to Cyprus but they already survived the Holocaust thus that was not going to stop them they took their homeland by force of arms against overwhelming odds like General Wolfe upon the Plains of Abraham Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 The reluctance from Jordan and Egypt won’t be cured by money. In both countries leaders who did deals with Israel have been assassinated so there’s a lot at stake. People who think all Arabs are the same should take a look at Jordan. Any more Palestinians there could easily start another civil war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September And then there’s the issue of physical capacity. The Nile Delta with Cairo has sixty million people in an area a quarter the size of the island of Newfoundland. They’re fairly full already. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 11 hours ago, Dougie93 said: nobody put the Zionists into Palestine the British Crown denied them entry; they were turned back, sent to Cyprus but they already survived the Holocaust thus that was not going to stop them they took their homeland by force of arms against overwhelming odds like General Wolfe upon the Plains of Abraham Jews started moving to Palestine when it was still part of the Ottoman Empire. The persecution of Jews in Russia after the assassination of Tsar Alexander II in 1881 created a steady flow of such refugees to many parts of the world, including North America. Balfour blocked their immigration to Britain with the Aliens Act in 1905 and then found a place for them in part of the Ottoman Empire seized by Britain. Under British rule, the numbers immigrating ballooned in the Twenties and Thirties despite vociferous protests from the Arab population. Quote
marcus Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 (edited) On 2/5/2025 at 11:29 AM, blackbird said: This would not have to be a forced removal of people from the Gaza. The west would in effect be purchasing the Gaza. This would go a long way to ending the conflict in that area. I don't see any other way to stop the fighting originating in the Gaza strip. 1. It could be done by offering financial incentives. Every Palestinian who moves could be paid a certain amount of money. The money could come from the U.S., Canada, other countries, and the U.N. 2. The money could also involve spending billions of dollars to build apartments, and create jobs in the countries they settle in. 3. It seems Hamas cannot be eliminated in the present situation. However, moving them by offering financial incentive may provide a solution. This would mean it would not be compulsory but would be in effect purchasing the Gaza strip. So far nobody in the news media has mentioned the idea of paying billions of dollars to the Palestinians to make it feasible. Part of the payments would have to be used to build apartments and create jobs. All of the money would not be given to the Palestinians directly. Some money could be paid directly to the ones who actually move. Part of the money would have to be retained and only used for the purpose of building new apartments, infrastructure, creating jobs, and communities in the destination countries. At present Jordan and Egypt oppose moving them to their countries. But the financial benefits have not been negotiated. That is the missing key to this. Perhaps if there was billions of dollars on the table, they would be willing to take in the Palestinians. But there would need to be a way to ensure the money was used only for the relocation and building of the homes, infrastructure, and jobs for the Palestinians. Also, the payments to the ones who relocated would have to be ensured somehow. The money could not be just handed over to the countries they moved into. Only racists support these kinds of depraved policies. And only racists support the people who want ethnic cleansing. If you're racist, cool, go support Israel. If you're not, check out BDS. Edited February 7 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 Why not pay the Israelis (even more) billions of dollars so they can move back to the European countries they came from? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
blackbird Posted February 7 Author Report Posted February 7 2 hours ago, marcus said: Why not pay the Israelis (even more) billions of dollars so they can move back to the European countries they came from? Obvious you are anti-semitic. I think we have discussed this before. Waste of time with you. Quote
GroundskeeperWillie Posted February 7 Report Posted February 7 Why should US give money to foreigners when this does not serve her interests? A bunch of sand-dwelling people want to kill one another? Let them. Quote
marcus Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 (edited) On 2/7/2025 at 2:37 PM, blackbird said: Obvious you are anti-semitic. I think we have discussed this before. Waste of time with you. The antisemite card is old and useless, usually used by the weak-minded who can't properly debate or backup an argument that has too many holes in it. I think Poland, Ukraine, Russia and Germany should take back the Jews from Palestine. This would solve a lot of issues. Why do Palestinians have to suffer for Europe's war? Leave the real semites in Palestine: The Palestinian Jews who have real ties to the region. Edited February 9 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
betsy Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 (edited) On 2/5/2025 at 2:29 PM, blackbird said: This would not have to be a forced removal of people from the Gaza. The west would in effect be purchasing the Gaza. This would go a long way to ending the conflict in that area. I don't see any other way to stop the fighting originating in the Gaza strip. 1. It could be done by offering financial incentives. Every Palestinian who moves could be paid a certain amount of money. The money could come from the U.S., Canada, other countries, and the U.N. 2. The money could also involve spending billions of dollars to build apartments, and create jobs in the countries they settle in. 3. It seems Hamas cannot be eliminated in the present situation. However, moving them by offering financial incentive may provide a solution. This would mean it would not be compulsory but would be in effect purchasing the Gaza strip. So far nobody in the news media has mentioned the idea of paying billions of dollars to the Palestinians to make it feasible. Part of the payments would have to be used to build apartments and create jobs. All of the money would not be given to the Palestinians directly. Some money could be paid directly to the ones who actually move. Part of the money would have to be retained and only used for the purpose of building new apartments, infrastructure, creating jobs, and communities in the destination countries. At present Jordan and Egypt oppose moving them to their countries. But the financial benefits have not been negotiated. That is the missing key to this. Perhaps if there was billions of dollars on the table, they would be willing to take in the Palestinians. But there would need to be a way to ensure the money was used only for the relocation and building of the homes, infrastructure, and jobs for the Palestinians. Also, the payments to the ones who relocated would have to be ensured somehow. The money could not be just handed over to the countries they moved into. EH? After the government has publicly reiterated our commitment to a 2-state solution.............which directly opposes Trump's statement against it? Why can't the LIBERALS shut up for once? How does this announcement help GAZA......and our current looming tariff fight with Trump? Will Canada send our military to GAZA? Edited February 9 by betsy Quote
blackbird Posted February 9 Author Report Posted February 9 1 hour ago, betsy said: EH? After the government has publicly reiterated our commitment to a 2-state solution.............which directly opposes Trump's statement against it? Why can't the LIBERALS shut up for once? How does this announcement help GAZA......and our current looming tariff fight with Trump? Will Canada send our military to GAZA? It is clear Canada and many countries of the world do not have a clue about what the conflict in the middle east is all about. So they have a simplistic and unrealistic "two-state solution". This amounts to pure anti-Semitism. It contributes nothing to helping bring peace to the middle east. It is part of the world's roughly 1,900 years of anti-Semitism. What seems to be true is the leftists and "progressives" (woke) are the most anti-Semitic as we see from comments on the forum. That is a small snapshot of what the world's anti-Semitism is. They need to get off their high horses and read the Bible. Quote
blackbird Posted February 9 Author Report Posted February 9 (edited) 9 hours ago, marcus said: The antisemite card is old and useless, Anti-Semitism is as old as the hills. Much of the world has been anti-Semitic since the days of the Roman Empire around two thousand years ago and even earlier. You are the one who needs to get your head out of the sand and do some studying. You are just repeating the age old anti-Semitic clap trap. Anti-Semitism is an age-old part of the world's religion. quote The history of antisemitism, defined as hostile actions or discrimination against Jews as a religious or ethnic group, goes back many centuries, being called "the longest hatred".[1] Jerome Chanes identifies six stages in the historical development of antisemitism:[2] Pre-Christian anti-Judaism in Ancient Greece and Rome that was primarily ethnic in nature Christian antisemitism in antiquity and the Middle Ages that was religious in nature and has extended into modern times Muslim antisemitism that was—at least in its classical form—nuanced, in that Jews were a protected class Political, social, and economic antisemitism during the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment Europe that laid the groundwork for racial antisemitism Racial antisemitism that arose in the 19th century and culminated in Nazism Contemporary antisemitism, which has been labeled by some as the new antisemitism Chanes suggests that these six stages could be merged into three categories: "ancient antisemitism, which was primarily ethnic in nature; Christian antisemitism, which was religious; and the racial antisemitism of the 19th and 20th centuries".[2] In practice, it is difficult to differentiate antisemitism from the general ill-treatment of nations by other nations before the Roman period, but since the adoption of Christianity in Europe, antisemitism has undoubtedly been present. The Islamic world has also historically seen the Jews as outsiders. The coming of the Scientific and Industrial Revolutions in 19th-century Europe bred a new manifestation of antisemitism, based as much upon race as upon religion, which culminated in the Holocaust that occurred during World War II. The formation of the state of Israel in 1948 caused new antisemitic tensions in the Middle East. unquote History of antisemitism - Wikipedia Edited February 9 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 9 Author Report Posted February 9 9 hours ago, marcus said: Leave the real semites in Palestine: The Palestinian Jews who have real ties to the region. " Judaism is not strictly a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. For instance, Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both "Jewish." However, whereas Ashkenazi Jews often hail from Europe, Sephardic Jews often hail from the Middle East via Spain or Morocco. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries. Although today Israel is often called the Jewish homeland, being Jewish is not strictly a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost 2,000 years. Hence, Jews come from countries all over the world. To be Jewish means that you are part of the Jewish people, a part of "The Chosen," whether because you were born into a Jewish home and culturally identify as Jewish or because you practice the Jewish religion (or both)." What Does It Really Mean to Be 'Jewish?' FACT: YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHO IS A JEW OR WHICH JEWS SHOULD LIVE IN ISRAEL. Quote
eyeball Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 2 hours ago, blackbird said: FACT: YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHO IS A JEW OR WHICH JEWS SHOULD LIVE IN ISRAEL. Did you know that right wing Jews call left wing Jews that criticize Israel anti-semites? They used to call them self-loathing Jews but switched to anti-Semites. Like most lefties everywhere they just laugh and roll their eyes at the spectacle right wingers make of themselves It's true, go look it up yourself if you don't believe me. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
carepov Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 On 2/7/2025 at 1:37 PM, marcus said: Why not pay the Israelis (even more) billions of dollars so they can move back to the European countries they came from? Israeli's are free to emigrate, many come to Canada. There are many Gazans from Egypt. Why can't they emigrate, if they so choose? Quote
carepov Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 On 2/6/2025 at 6:28 PM, Michael Hardner said: 2. Two state solution is on the books as the agreed upon direction for many nations, observers, commenters including from Israel. The 2005 Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was a test for a 2-state solution. The test proved that a Palestinian state would be led by Hamas and try to annihilate Israel. 2 Quote
marcus Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, carepov said: Israeli's are free to emigrate, many come to Canada. There are many Gazans from Egypt. Why can't they emigrate, if they so choose? Anyone who wants to move, should be able to, as long as they have a right to that land or as long as the country they want to go to allows them to. Many Palestinians in Gaza are refugees who were forced out of what is now Israel. They should also be allowed to go back to their homes there. Over 500 towns and villages were destroyed during the Nakba, in 1948. Edited February 10 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 1 hour ago, carepov said: The 2005 Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was a test for a 2-state solution. The test proved that a Palestinian state would be led by Hamas and try to annihilate Israel. Contrary to the narrative that the Israeli hasbara has successfully pushed through western media, the conditions in Gaza were not peachy after the withdraw. The occupation continued after the withdraw of the settlers in the North of Gaza. Israel still had control over the borders, the sea and the air. They controlled what went in and out. There was a brutal blockade of Gaza and 3 brutal attacks on Gaza, where thousands of Palestinians were killed and injured. As long as you have a brutal occupier, there will be resistance. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 12 hours ago, blackbird said: " Judaism is not strictly a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. For instance, Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both "Jewish." However, whereas Ashkenazi Jews often hail from Europe, Sephardic Jews often hail from the Middle East via Spain or Morocco. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries. Although today Israel is often called the Jewish homeland, being Jewish is not strictly a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost 2,000 years. Hence, Jews come from countries all over the world. To be Jewish means that you are part of the Jewish people, a part of "The Chosen," whether because you were born into a Jewish home and culturally identify as Jewish or because you practice the Jewish religion (or both)." What Does It Really Mean to Be 'Jewish?' FACT: YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHO IS A JEW OR WHICH JEWS SHOULD LIVE IN ISRAEL. The European Jews can follow whatever religion they want and call themselves whatever they want. But they can't fake originating from Palestine. I am just talking about the genetic connection to the land. The connection that the European Jews claim to have to Palestine is not genetic. So this whole thing about being 'originally' from that area, 3000 years ago, is BS. That said, the argument that we have the right to replace another group of people because we have a connection with the land from 3000 years is such a stupid and moronic argument. By the way, the Arabs (Muslim, Christian and Jews) who live in that region (Palestine, Lebanon, and parts of Jordan, Egypt) have actual DNA connection to that land that go back thousands of years to the Canaanites and the Israelites who eventually followed them. Not to mention that the Arabs have been living there consistently for generations and for centuries. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
betsy Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 (edited) 18 hours ago, blackbird said: It is clear Canada and many countries of the world do not have a clue about what the conflict in the middle east is all about. So they have a simplistic and unrealistic "two-state solution". This amounts to pure anti-Semitism. It contributes nothing to helping bring peace to the middle east. It is part of the world's roughly 1,900 years of anti-Semitism. What seems to be true is the leftists and "progressives" (woke) are the most anti-Semitic as we see from comments on the forum. That is a small snapshot of what the world's anti-Semitism is. They need to get off their high horses and read the Bible. I'm talking about the CONTRADICTION of your OP to the position of the LIBERALS! The LIBERALS support a 2-state solution! That's why they even opened their big mouth to make that announcement shortly after Trump had said Palestnians has to leave GAZA! Now you're saying, Canada ought to contribute to the relocation of Palestinians? With the LIBERALS in government? More likely - Trudeau would open the door of CANADA to the PALESTINIANS. 😁 Edited February 10 by betsy Quote
NAME REMOVED Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 6 hours ago, marcus said: That said, the argument that we have the right to replace another group of people because we have a connection with the land from 3000 years is such a stupid and moronic argument. How is it moronic? People have been battling for land everywhere. In North America, the Indigenous people rules the land for centuries, until Europeans came, and conquered it. Quote
blackbird Posted February 10 Author Report Posted February 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, betsy said: Now you're saying, Canada ought to contribute to the relocation of Palestinians? With the LIBERALS in government? I know of course the Liberals (or the anti-Semitic NDP) would never contribute to a voluntary relocation of the Palestinians because they have no use for Israel. Maybe a Conservative government would be more helpful. 2 hours ago, betsy said: More likely - Trudeau would open the door of CANADA to the PALESTINIANS. 😁 Yes, he already has. Canada has taken in many of them. The bring their conflict here. Edited February 10 by blackbird Quote
blackbird Posted February 10 Author Report Posted February 10 8 hours ago, marcus said: So this whole thing about being 'originally' from that area, 3000 years ago, is BS. You're lying. Read history and the Bible. God gave the Jews the land of Israel around 3,000 years ago forever. They were driven off the land by the Roman Emperors and others. A small number may have remained. Then they returned to re-claim their land and did so in 1948. Quote
blackbird Posted February 10 Author Report Posted February 10 8 hours ago, marcus said: I am just talking about the genetic connection to the land. That's hypocrisy. You are making up a genetic rule for the Jews but don't apply it to yourself. What genetic rule gives you the right to be in north America or Turtle Island? Every country was conquered and settled by other people from somewhere else. The Jews have more right to the land of Israel than you have to where you are. They were given the land in perpetuity by God. Read the Bible. Quote
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