blackbird Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 It's quite simple. Why should one province and thousands of workers be sacrificed for the rest of the country? They shouldn't. Trudeau and the premiers should have come up with a better plan. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 6 hours ago, Aristides said: It would mean that Americans would pay 25% more for the 4 million barrels of oil we send them every day. It would also mean, that the same oil which the americans buy off of us is then processed and turned into gas or diesel, and resold to Canadians because of our lack of refineries to refine bitumen, or even regular crude....so in the end we are going to pay out of pocket.... It would also could mean they cut that supply off and purchase from another country...without the us buying up huge amounts of oil, who would we sell to...and at what price...without a consumer our oil and gas industry would be sitting dead in the water....We need the US more than they need us.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 5 hours ago, Aristides said: Actually we did, the TMX at a cost of over 30 billion to get Alberta heavy oil to the west coast so they don''t have to be captive to US refineries. Who was going to build this pipeline to the east coast, there are no eastern refineries with the capacity to process heavy oil. Who was going to build those refineries? PP said he was going to get this pipeline built....how or when i have no details....Irving oil with the province of NB as partnership said they would build refineries to refine bitumen that was years ago, but i'm sure if presented with the same issue today why would they not build it they would have a monopoly on fuels for the maritimes. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 15 minutes ago, blackbird said: IWhy should one province and thousands of workers be sacrificed for the rest of the country? Because it's better than sacrificing a whole country and millions of workers for one province. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Aristides Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 11 minutes ago, Army Guy said: PP said he was going to get this pipeline built....how or when i have no details....Irving oil with the province of NB as partnership said they would build refineries to refine bitumen that was years ago, but i'm sure if presented with the same issue today why would they not build it they would have a monopoly on fuels for the maritimes. Irving said they would spend $300 M on a terminal to ship the stuff, not a refinery. Quote
Aristides Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 23 minutes ago, blackbird said: It's quite simple. Why should one province and thousands of workers be sacrificed for the rest of the country? They shouldn't. Trudeau and the premiers should have come up with a better plan. Why would they be sacrificed? The US imports 4 million barrels of oil a day from Canada and is the only source for the heavy oil that many need because they can't refine lighter crude. Without Canadian heavy oil they would have to shut down. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 6 hours ago, Aristides said: Actually we did, the TMX at a cost of over 30 billion to get Alberta heavy oil to the west coast so they don''t have to be captive to US refineries. Who was going to build this pipeline to the east coast, there are no eastern refineries with the capacity to process heavy oil. Who was going to build those refineries? You make it sound like the liberals built this pipeline, Actually TMX was a 75% complete when justin decided to buy it at inflated price 4.7 bil ...to finish the remaining 25 % it cost tax payers was 26.2 bil... something went wrong somewhere...how a company could build and sell a pipeline for a profit with only 4.7 billion and build 75 % of said pipeline....but give it to the liberals and poof. TMX pipeline does not carry bitumen, but rather Quote By 1998, TMPL made regular shipments to Vancouver of refined petroleum products "including jet fuel, gasoline (unleaded and premium unleaded), diesel (regular sulfur, low sulfur, and low temperature), methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE), and crude-oil (light sweet, light sour, and heavy)".[1] I know they were talking about building a bitumen oil refinery in kitimat, but i don't think it got built , and transport the oil by rail because of the issues of pipelines...but i can't find a source that confirms it was built... https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/proposed-kitimat-oil-refinery-just-another-barrier-oil-sands-development Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
blackbird Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 34 minutes ago, eyeball said: Because it's better than sacrificing a whole country and millions of workers for one province. That's is pretty dumb. NO province is going to agree to sacrifice itself for the benefit of the others. It is not fair either. I think you are just being contrary as usual. Any action against the tariffs should be distributed equally across the country so the pain is equally distributed. Strange you can not understand such a simple strategy. Quote
eyeball Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: NO province is going to agree to sacrifice itself for the benefit of the others. Why on Earth do you figure Canada will sacrifice itself for the benefit of Alberta? There is no indispensable province. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 Just now, eyeball said: Why on Earth do you figure Canada will sacrifice itself for the benefit of Alberta? There is no indispensable province. why on earth do you figure Alberta would sacrifice itself for Canada? It's a mutual thing. Federation is only work when it's a fair and equitable relationship. Canada has been treating Alberta poorly for at least 10 years, repressing its Industries and threatening its livelihood. Why in god's name would they trust the feds now? Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
myata Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 On 1/16/2025 at 3:05 PM, eyeball said: Canada should have hired Norway to manage our oil and gas sector. What a great, novel idea! And how about we extend it to the all of the government... and the PS sure! and the Parliament of course. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Aristides Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Army Guy said: You make it sound like the liberals built this pipeline, Actually TMX was a 75% complete when justin decided to buy it at inflated price 4.7 bil ...to finish the remaining 25 % it cost tax payers was 26.2 bil... something went wrong somewhere...how a company could build and sell a pipeline for a profit with only 4.7 billion and build 75 % of said pipeline....but give it to the liberals and poof. TMX pipeline does not carry bitumen, but rather I know they were talking about building a bitumen oil refinery in kitimat, but i don't think it got built , and transport the oil by rail because of the issues of pipelines...but i can't find a source that confirms it was built... https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/proposed-kitimat-oil-refinery-just-another-barrier-oil-sands-development The TMX was nowhere near complete when the feds bought it in 2019. Kinder Morgan bailed because they were tired of spending millions fighting environmentalists and the province of BC and they knew it was going to cost way over 4.7B. The TMX carries nothing but bitumen. Conventional crude and refined product is carried by the original Transmountain pipeline to terminals on the lower mainland and refineries in Burnaby and Washington state. Personally I was against the northern line simply because fighting a spill in such rugged terrain and restricted waterways in the middle of nowhere would be next to impossible, particularly in winter. I supported the TMX expansion. Edited January 17 by Aristides Quote
eyeball Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 13 minutes ago, CdnFox said: why on earth do you figure Alberta would sacrifice itself for Canada? I don't. I expect Alberta to put itself ahead of Canada. 14 minutes ago, CdnFox said: It's a mutual thing. Federation is only work when it's a fair and equitable relationship. Canada has been treating Alberta poorly for at least 10 years, repressing its Industries and threatening its livelihood. Why in god's name would they trust the feds now? Why would anyone? In any case it's Canadians they should be trusting. No one trusts Ottawa. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 1 hour ago, eyeball said: I don't. I expect Alberta to put itself ahead of Canada. Why not? Quote Why would anyone? Not really relevant. We're talking about alberta specifically. Quote In any case it's Canadians they should be trusting. No one trusts Ottawa. Canadians aren't doing the negotiatons. Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Aristides Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: It would also mean, that the same oil which the americans buy off of us is then processed and turned into gas or diesel, and resold to Canadians because of our lack of refineries to refine bitumen, or even regular crude....so in the end we are going to pay out of pocket.... It would also could mean they cut that supply off and purchase from another country...without the us buying up huge amounts of oil, who would we sell to...and at what price...without a consumer our oil and gas industry would be sitting dead in the water....We need the US more than they need us.... They have no other source of heavy oil. There was only Venezuela and their industry is in the tank. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Aristides said: Irving said they would spend $300 M on a terminal to ship the stuff, not a refinery. That is more recent news, they are now going to ship oil from Alberta to NB by ship, the new terminal is for that endeavor,That being said Irving did say it would build a bitumen refinery if the transcanada pipeline was built, that was years ago , not sure what is on the books today, b7ut i'm sure that if the pipeline was started Irving or someone else would build a terminal, it makes business sense... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 10 minutes ago, Aristides said: They have no other source of heavy oil. There was only Venezuela and their industry is in the tank. Thats the fun thing about industries they come and go, and if the US decided to give venezuela our market share, our market would tank and theirs would expand....our position of strength is not as strong as the liberals think it is....The US will come out of this tariffs thing in a lot better shape than we would... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Aristides said: The TMX was nowhere near complete when the feds bought it in 2019. Kinder Morgan bailed because they were tired of spending millions fighting environmentalists and the province of BC and they knew it was going to cost way over 4.7B. The TMX carries nothing but bitumen. Conventional crude and refined product is carried by the original Transmountain pipeline to terminals on the lower mainland and refineries in Burnaby and Washington state. Personally I was against the northern line simply because fighting a spill in such rugged terrain and restricted waterways in the middle of nowhere would be next to impossible, particularly in winter. I supported the TMX expansion. So your saying that BC does have a bitumen refinery. As i said i could not find anything about one being completed...I was also under the assumption that heavy crude is not the same as bitumen...Irving has said they could refine heavy crude but not bitumen... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
blackbird Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 2 hours ago, eyeball said: Why on Earth do you figure Canada will sacrifice itself for the benefit of Alberta? There is no indispensable province. Why don't you think it should be shared equally between provinces? Quote
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Aristides said: The TMX was nowhere near complete when the feds bought it in 2019. Kinder Morgan bailed because they were tired of spending millions fighting environmentalists and the province of BC and they knew it was going to cost way over 4.7B. The TMX carries nothing but bitumen. Conventional crude and refined product is carried by the original Transmountain pipeline to terminals on the lower mainland and refineries in Burnaby and Washington state. Personally I was against the northern line simply because fighting a spill in such rugged terrain and restricted waterways in the middle of nowhere would be next to impossible, particularly in winter. I supported the TMX expansion. your right about how much was completed, i misread my source my bad, Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Aristides Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Army Guy said: So your saying that BC does have a bitumen refinery. As i said i could not find anything about one being completed...I was also under the assumption that heavy crude is not the same as bitumen...Irving has said they could refine heavy crude but not bitumen... No, it has an oil refinery in Burnaby that gets light crude from the original Transmountain pipeline which was built in 1953 . None of the west coast refineries in either Canada or the US can handle bitumen. https://www.transmountain.com/product Over half of the line one capacity goes to refineries in Cherry Point and Anacortes Washington the rest is light crude for the Burnaby refinery or refined product from Edmonton refineries. https://www.transmountain.com/product-destination Edited January 17 by Aristides Quote
Aristides Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Thats the fun thing about industries they come and go, and if the US decided to give venezuela our market share, our market would tank and theirs would expand....our position of strength is not as strong as the liberals think it is....The US will come out of this tariffs thing in a lot better shape than we would... You should do a little research on Venezuela. Their oil industry is boycotted by the US, it's in a shambles and they are relying on Iran to try and get it up and running. Smith is afraid of her own shadow. Instead of being a major player in bringing Trump to his senses, she wants to suck his dick. Edited January 17 by Aristides Quote
August1991 Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 On 1/16/2025 at 2:54 PM, godzilla said: when Norway discovered oil in the 1970's they nationalized the profits and now have one of the largest sovereign wealth funds on earth. ==== Norway has access to the ocean. Alberta does not. Ask Newfoundland about this. Quote
August1991 Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 On 1/16/2025 at 6:33 PM, blackbird said: Natural resources are under the jurisdiction of the provinces, not the federal government. Royalties go to the provincial governments. This is a key point of our federal Constitution. Quote
eyeball Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: Why not? Because they elected a hard-boiled chud to run the place. 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: Not rreally relevant. We're talking about alberta specifically. And specifically within Canada. 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: Canadians aren't doing the negotiatons. No, we're like the poor hapless souls screaming in the backseat of the car Grandpa's sleep-driving over the cliff. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.