How nationalist are you?

[Dougie93]

14 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You never swore an oath to any British Crown in your entire life.  You're a traitor to the Canadian Crown which you pledged allegiance.

You're a Russian bot here to sow division.  Go screw yourself loser.

your attempts to fabricate a false dichotomy are merely a sign a weakness and insecurity

that paradox is why you get so upset about it

yet understanding that British is not a race, nor a place

but rather simply a system of governance called Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy

founded by the Dutch Regent, William Prince of Orange, on 1 July 1690

is the only binding force of Canadian Confederation ; the only purpose for Canada to even exist

your misguided impulse to somehow make Canada into an anti-British institution

is the very thing which has created the deeply divided Post National State

in the throes of terminal Decolonization by Feminist & Indigenous ( Communist ) "ways of knowing"

now, if you insist on invoking nationalism ?

well in that case, "Canadian" is a meaningless distinction

as by my ancestry & culture, I am Scots German

otherwise known as the Ulster Scots, the Scots Irish, or in honour of William III, the Orangemen

technically, the only Canadian nation is the Quebecois

but other than the rule of the British Crown,  I honestly feel no affiliation with those French Hillbillies whatsoever

we Britons of course have far more in common with our Scots Irish conservative cousins in America

 

 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

 

... as by my ancestry & culture, I am Scots German

So, go back to.... uh.... Scottish Germany ? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[Dougie93]

39 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So, go back to.... uh.... Scottish Germany ? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

indeed, the Lowland Scots being Anglo Saxons, conquering Britannia in the wake of the Romans

or as the Highland Scots call us ; Sassenach, which is Gaelic meaning "Saxon"

Edited December 31, 2024 by Dougie93

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

indeed, the Lowland Scots being Anglo Saxons, conquering Britannia in the wake of the Romans

or as the Highland Scots call us ; Sassenach, which is Gaelic meaning "Saxon"

You do you.

It's my job to work for a country where you can be happy wearing a helmet with horns or a kilt.

[Dougie93]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You do you.

It's my job to work for a country where you can be happy wearing a helmet with horns or a kilt.

oh, I am not a nationalist

not for Canada, not for Scotland neither

as in both cases, the brand of nationalism is inherently left wing and tyrannically so

 

[suds]

Can anyone explain what a theoretical multicultural post national state is supposed to look like? I also personally don't like the term 'nationalist'. If one loves or believes in their country I would consider them to be a patriot. It's far less confusing.

[eyeball]

On 1/6/2025 at 4:06 PM, suds said:

Can anyone explain what a theoretical multicultural post national state is supposed to look like?

The Federation.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 12/31/2024 at 9:17 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok, but you spoke past my point.  Peace between nations works if you have agreed-upon borders, hopefully those that align with cultural boundries, and a framework for negotiating and guaranteeing piece.  Maybe I also missed something that you referred to "nation" and not "nation state".  So, yes, nations are easier to stabilize than nation-states.

But then we're back to what User said about things being conflated.  Is Canada a "nation" or was in based on 3 separate cultures/nations ?  If so, what does it mean to be a Canadian "nationalist" ?  I'm genuinely confused as to how you could be a Canadian nationalist in this case and not a multiculturalist.

2. Right, but before the Westphalian you had regions in between that flipped back and forth, and before that it was more feudal than national.  And the languages themselves had to be standardized as there were regional differences that were greater than today.

3. We're back to the contradiction and confusion User referred to.  People don't want a central authority to control their lives but that's exactly what a nation-state like France does.  The kings usurped the regional powers of the feudal lords and took power away from the regions, standardized language and made a "France".  They they fought over borders for a few centures until WW2.  

You're not wrong, but if you state absolutes like "states are good" you're missing the fact that every form of social organization has plusses and minuses.  Central control of regions, is like the power of the "union".  Overall strength is there but some areas are favoured and individuality is reduced.  Same thing is happening Globally as cultures are melting into each other etc.

4.  So the Irish and Germans had to give up their culture to a central culture but indeed it happened naturally.  Multiculturalism as a policy tries to preserve the character of cultures within Canada but is there really much of a difference between Toronto and, say, Chicago with individual enclaves etc. ?   Sure, the government throws a few million to fund ethnic festivals here and there.  It seems to me the purpose is to convince top 20% that Canada is nicer than the US and create more tolerance for immigration.

The other thing you're missing is that authorities will tap into your emotional/moral sense to manipulate you to execute their agenda.  Nationalism, good/bad guy tropes, etc. etc.  will be put forward to get you in line with what they're trying to do.  Not to say they don't think they're right but that's the way of the world.

Using "good/bad" in our arguments (and I do it too) is a sign that we're under the spell of such tricks.

5. Right, so you defacto CAN'T be a "Nationalistic Canadian"

1. My sense is Canada slowly became a nation through shared hardships we got through together like War of 1812, US Civil War (leading to Confederation), WWI and WW2, and thus we asserted our independence from Britain, made our own flag, national anthem, citizenship etc.  Then some Quebecois flipped Canada the bird and some don't consider themselves "Canadian".  Maybe most of us are multiculturalists, like I'm anglo-Canadian, then there's French-Canadian, Inuit-Canada, Punjabi-Canadian etc.  But when sh*t hits the fan, we're either Canadian or we aren't.  We're all on the same team, except those that aren't.  And if they aren't, and act against the national interests in favour of their own sub-nation or foreign nation, then they're an enemy.  Just look at Dougie LOL.

Yes there's sometimes sub-nations within a larger nation.  This can cause problems if sub-nations fight for political dominance or one represses the other.

So where do you fall on my poll?

2. Borders change, but some Ukrainians still consider themselves Russian.  That leads to problems.

3.  A state will fold if people aren't willing to defend it and they have stronger allegiances elsewhere.  People have to unite around something.  A central government has uses, like security and military, foreign trade etc.  They can also foster a sense of unity from all regions via nationalism.  That's a reason we have a flag and a national anthem.

4.  Did Italians all speak Italian before unification?  Who knows. In Canada we speak English and French.  There's hardly anything more divisive than language because if we can't even communicate with each other we're not going to interact very much, and will do so poorly.  We'll just stick to "our own".

"Good or bad" is a value judgment, and sometimes necessary.  Sitting on the fence means everyone else decides our lives for us.

5.  If I feel things about my country, our history, our flag etc and seek to defend it then you're wrong.  "Canada" is a team, which means its a nation.  If sh*t hits the fan and we go to war with e.g. Iran, and some Canadians are more "Team Iran" than "Team Canada" then we can have some problems.  Some in Quebec are much more loyal to Quebec than Canada.  We've done a lot to include them on the team but some just have their own allegiances.

[NAME REMOVED]

On 12/31/2024 at 8:28 AM, Michael Hardner said:

So, go back to.... uh.... Scottish Germany ? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

So is Donald Trump.

[Five of swords]

It might seem like a contradiction but I am a national socialist and I picked anti patriot. But then again, I am from the usa. So it makes sense. I am loyal to my nation...but my nation is my race. The usa is anti national

[Black Dog]

11 hours ago, Five of swords said:

It might seem like a contradiction but I am a national socialist and I picked anti patriot. But then again, I am from the usa. So it makes sense. I am loyal to my nation...but my nation is my race. The usa is anti national

Your race is fake.

[Five of swords]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Your race is fake.

Then I guess you can stop complaining about black people being enslaved. No such thing. Right?

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, Five of swords said:

Then I guess you can stop complaining about black people being enslaved. No such thing. Right?

No I said your race, the white race, is fake.

 

[Five of swords]

2 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

No I said your race, the white race, is fake.

 

I'm pretty sure I could deconstruct the black race far more easily than you could deconstruct the white race. Thr fact is that Europeans are all very closely related...Europe being a rather small continent. Europeans also all share very important and defining moments in history...the various technological and cultural revolutions happened across the continent.

[Black Dog]

4 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

I'm pretty sure I could deconstruct the black race far more easily than you could deconstruct the white race.

Oh I'm absolutely sure you could make up a lot of dumb shit, it's happened many times before.

Quote

Thr fact is that Europeans are all very closely related...Europe being a rather small continent.

There are more than enough genetic and cultural differences that lumping them together as a single race is dumb as hell,

Quote

Europeans also all share very important and defining moments in history...the various technological and cultural revolutions happened across the continent.

Don't forget thousands of years of murdering each other as well.

[Five of swords]

33 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Oh I'm absolutely sure you could make up a lot of dumb shit, it's happened many times before.

There are more than enough genetic and cultural differences that lumping them together as a single race is dumb as hell,

Don't forget thousands of years of murdering each other as well.

Sorry but no. There are significant things the various euopean ethnicities do share in common...far more than needed to make them a meaningful category. Even if it was only that they share a history of euopean manorialism that would be enough...but it is so much more

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, Five of swords said:

Sorry but no. There are significant things the various euopean ethnicities do share in common...far more than needed to make them a meaningful category. Even if it was only that they share a history of euopean manorialism that would be enough...but it is so much more

The only significant thing all european ethnicities have in common is hating every other european ethnicity.

[Five of swords]

55 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

The only significant thing all european ethnicities have in common is hating every other european ethnicity.

Totally false. I even mentioned one example already...history of manorialism

[Black Dog]

18 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Totally false. I even mentioned one example already...history of manorialism

lol who cares about that no one is going around saying "ah yes my fellow Europeans, my brothers in a long-abolished feudal system".

Edited February 7 by Black Dog

[Five of swords]

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

lol who cares about that no one is going around saying "ah yes my fellow Europeans, my brothers in a long-abolished feudal system".

The history of it had a deep impact on all of us and our psyche and genetic archetypes. That was just one thing. There are dozens. The scientific revolution. The industrial revolution. The shadow of the roman empire. Conversion to Christianity. Colonialism. The Treaty of Westphalia. Etc etc. All these events had profound impact on who we are now and left genetic imprints on us

Edited February 7 by Five of swords

[Black Dog]

On 2/7/2025 at 4:58 PM, Five of swords said:

The history of it had a deep impact on all of us and our psyche and genetic archetypes. That was just one thing. There are dozens. The scientific revolution. The industrial revolution. The shadow of the roman empire. Conversion to Christianity. Colonialism. The Treaty of Westphalia. Etc etc. All these events had profound impact on who we are now and left genetic imprints on us

Counterpoint: no they did not. We do not have a predisposition to feudal systems of land ownership imprinted on our genes you freakshow lol that's insane.

[SpankyMcFarland]

A lot more nationalist than I was a few weeks ago.