Tariffs on Canadian Goods

[BeaverFever]

30 minutes ago, cannuck said:

She has been in our associates' Toronto  offices several times before being elected.  She is no stranger to any of us, and someone we greatly admire for her academic and professional background.

So  you were saying Trump and Trudeau couldn’t work at McDonalds?  That’s more acceptable 

[cannuck]

36 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So  you were saying Trump and Trudeau couldn’t work at McDonalds?  That’s more acceptable 

They are a perfect pair of bookends - both incredibly arrogant and incredibly ignorant.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Do we?  

We do. And it's getting worse. The percentage of people that are caught going from Canada to America versus Mexico to America who are known gang people or who have serious criminal problems is it a ratio of something like 8 to 1. And there are well over 100,000 such crossings each year and it's growing exponentially. It's a serious problem.

Quote

Canada probably has an even bigger problem with bad actors entering Canada from the US. All those guns and drugs don’t smuggle themselves 

Well that's smuggling and it's a bit of a different issue. A lot of those people are Canadians. And we have a lot more control about securing our borders. Think of it this way, if America was knowingly letting people bring cocaine into their country and then letting them walk across the border into our country that would be a similar comparison.

 

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The President is not king. The author is suggesting to stall to let pressure from within the US such as states,

No he isn't. That isn't playing for time.

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Not dumb at all.  Strength in numbers.

No, many chefs spoil the broth. You have one point of negotiation and you work it out. When you have 10 people negotiating the same thing from different points of view you get a mess. Like I said they should have input the negotiations should come from a single source

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Not at all. Although it’s not really helpful advice in terms of how to prevent his disastrous policy it’s just advice how not to damage your own image and reputation while doing it. 

It's dumb. It's a meaningless phrase that isn't helpful. Standing tall is about ego and pride. What we need is people to be statesmen like. What matters here is getting stuff done and building a relationship For the next four years.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

They are a perfect pair of bookends - both incredibly arrogant and incredibly ignorant.

At least Trudeau having been a wannabe actor has the EQ to act more or less dignified in public and can pass himself off as intelligent as long as he doesn’t stray too far from the script.  Plus he’s bilingual.
 

Trump is just an amoral lunatic with a chainsaw who lacks the ability to even  PRETEND otherwise.  And a “despicable human being” on top of everything else. Trudeau isn’t any of those things he’s just a vapid spokesmodel. 

[BeaverFever]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

We do. And it's getting worse. The percentage of people that are caught going from Canada to America versus Mexico to America who are known gang people or who have serious criminal problems is it a ratio of something like 8 to 1. And there are well over 100,000 such crossings each year and it's growing exponentially. It's a serious problem.

I just read that it’s 21,000 year to date. And it’s often American criminal organizations who are involved.  And the criminal ratio if accurate is only because there are few other reasons a person would ever want to sneak into USA from Canada other than crime. Whereas many coming from Mexico are simply looking for opportunities (contrary to Republican claims that they are all rapists). 
 

And at any rate considering the the flood of guns and drugs that comes to Canada from USA it’s hilarious that we’re the ones who have to go grovelling to them while Republicans DELIBERATELY do nothing about guns in particular and actively try to block  measures to stem gun smuggling. 
 

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well that's smuggling and it's a bit of a different issue.

Trump specifically referenced Fentanyl entering the USA as part of his justification so it’s not a different issue. 
 

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

A lot of those people are Canadians

A lot of the people smuggling humans and contraband into the US are Americans. In fact given the size of the US population and the larger, far more established criminal organizations I would wager there are more Americans involved in illicit border crossings than Canadians.  Certainly the gun traffickers acquiring the guns from Red state free-fire zones are Americans aided and abetted by Republicans in the state and federal level. I mean the exact same long haul truck driver goes to the exact same gun store every month and buys the exact same order of a  dozen 9mm pistols and Republicans are like “second amendment, nothing to see here asking questions is communist!” Even when ATF started tracing crime guns to the same repeat offender gun stores, Republicans responded by shutting down the ATF investigation not the gun stores. I could go on about all the games the  GOP and NRA play to keep the guns flowing. 
 

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No he isn't. That isn't playing for time.

Yes it is, the author is saying there’s no need to rush to concessions when he’s a guaranteed one-term president,  likely to face significant internal opposition to this proposal. Trump has a very limited window of time to make his controversial radical reforms. Once he’s past the 2 year mark he loses significant influence, nobody’s going to let him burn down the house once his term limit is right around the corner. 
 

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No, many chefs spoil the broth. You have one point of negotiation and you work it out. When you have 10 people negotiating the same thing from different points of view you get a mess. Like I said they should have input the negotiations should come from a single source

Don’t be silly people and governments collaborate and cooperate all the time. The entire world order is based on it. 
 

Also what you described is the OPPOSITE of collaboration 10 people doing their own thing from 10 different points of view is what happens if you DONT work together and organize. You make it sound as if you think this means the US congressmen and governors who oppose the tariffs would be with the Canadians at the negotiating table, which is silly, nobody is saying that. 

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It's dumb. It's a meaningless phrase that isn't helpful. Standing tall is about ego and pride. What we need is people to be statesmen like. What matters here is getting stuff done and building a relationship For the next four years.

Standing tall is not about ego and pride and it is very statesmen-like. It doesn’t mean being stubborn or overbearing or uncompromising or unfriendly.   It means being confident, charismatic and firm where necessary, dealing with the other party as a peer. The opposite of standing tall is being meek and timid, dealing with the other as if you are inherently inferior and subordinate  

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by BeaverFever

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I just read that it’s 21,000 year to date. And it’s often American criminal organizations who are involved.  

 

So let's go with that. 21,000 people of which a very high percentage are going to be bad people because they are being brought in by american criminal organizations. They're obviously not Americans themselves or they wouldn't need to sneak across the border

In what universe is that not a serious problem? Thousands of criminals coming across the border to work with American criminal gangs.

How many hardcore criminal gang people do you think would be a number that would actually cause you concern? Like how many bad guys would have to move into your neighborhood before you said you know what, maybe we don't need this many.

I mean your premise is laughable. That is a lot of bad guys

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

And at any rate considering the the flood of guns and drugs

Complete false equivalence. Smugglers are smugglers. Americans do their best to try and nail criminal smugglers at the best of times. As I said it's got absolutely nothing in common, the guns are already in the united states and people, commonly Canadians, legally go across the border into the united states and then try and sneak them back.

That is not the same as someone coming from another country into Canada and then walking across the border in numbers where we know it's occurring but do nothing.

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

A lot of the people smuggling humans and contraband into the US are Americans.

You cannot conflate those two things. Contraband and people are two different things. When a person comes into Canada and we don't screen them or we don't question them and then they go from Canada into the US that was something that we had an opportunity to prevent.

More importantly we do drug and contraband interdiction all the time along the border but we don't do it with humans.

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump specifically referenced Fentanyl entering the USA as part of his justification so it’s not a different issue. 

If it's being smuggled separately then we guess we have to take a look at what we're doing to prevent it to coming into Canada. But it is completely retarded to suggest that somehow the Americans have no right to be concerned about it coming into the united states. And if we're doing as much to try and keep it from Canada as they're doing then great, we have to talk to him about that. But I know we're not doing anything about the people

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Yes it is, the author is saying there’s no need to rush to concessions

No that's not what he's saying. Now you're trying to make excuses for him because what he said was stupid and you want him to be smarter than he was.

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Don’t be silly people and governments collaborate and cooperate all the time.

Not in the actual process they don't. I was the one that said that they have to talk and be consulted and work out what's going to happen with each other but then you present a united front with the gov't putting together their negotiating team  and that's who's doing the talking. 

When was the last time you saw successful negotiations take place where multiple level of governments renegotiating independently. Like feel free to go back 100 years

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Standing tall is not about ego and pride

It absolutely is. Again the author has said something stupid, I have pointed out that it's stupid, you want the author to be smarter than he is so you're making excuses for him.

That may make you smarter than the author, but it doesn't make the author any smarter

[NAME REMOVED]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So let's go with that. 21,000 people of which a very high percentage are going to be bad people because they are being brought in by american criminal organizations. They're obviously not Americans themselves or they wouldn't need to sneak across the border

In what universe is that not a serious problem? Thousands of criminals coming across the border to work with American criminal gangs.

How many hardcore criminal gang people do you think would be a number that would actually cause you concern? Like how many bad guys would have to move into your neighborhood before you said you know what, maybe we don't need this many.

The people trying to cross the border, are mainly Indians that are doing so, due to perceived better economic opportunities. Mainly Sikhs and Hindus. 

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/10/nx-s1-5091259/indian-migrants-immigration-canada-northern-border-illegal-us-customs-and-border-protection

The only way Canada will be able to stop this, is to crack down, and make sure that the 3.9 million temporary residents either go through the proper legal channels to become full fledged Canadian citizens, or leave the country when their permits expire. 

I am a little irked, that we allow so many Indian nationals to enter here, and they repay us by trying to illegally enter the US, due to perceived better employment opportunities. It's not like they are entering the US due to being persecuted, or fleeing from certain death.

However, the idea that the majority of the people attempting to cross are "hardcore criminals" is false. One can argue that they are technically criminals for crossing the border illegally, but then again one can point out that both alcohol and marijuana were illegal at various points in Canadian history, and that did not really stop anyone from using it, nor did it make users "hardcore criminals."

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

The people trying to cross the border, are mainly Indians that are doing so, due to perceived better economic opportunities. Mainly Sikhs and Hindus. 

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/10/nx-s1-5091259/indian-migrants-immigration-canada-northern-border-illegal-us-customs-and-border-protection

The only way Canada will be able to stop this, is to crack down, and make sure that the 3.9 million temporary residents either go through the proper legal channels to become full fledged Canadian citizens, or leave the country when their permits expire. 

Sure, but that is a viable method. Like we could do that. And it's not an unreasonable ask from the neighbors if that's what's happening

Quote

I am a little irked, that we allow so many Indian nationals to enter here, and they repay us by trying to illegally enter the US, due to perceived better employment opportunities. It's not like they are entering the US due to being persecuted, or fleeing from certain death.

I am beyonder that anybody from anywhere would choose to use Canada as a criminal springboard for entry into the united states. I think we should be doing more to stop that. Then again Trudeau has been actively encouraging chinese involvement in our elections so obviously he's not terribly worried about something as simple as foreign border crossings.

Quote

However, the idea that the majority of the people attempting to cross are "hardcore criminals" is false. One can argue that they are technically criminals for crossing the border illegally, but then again one can point out that both alcohol and marijuana were illegal at various points in Canadian history, and that did not really stop anyone from using it, nor did it make users "hardcore criminals."

I get the sentiment behind your comments. And I would probably suggest that most people would think that the majority of people crossing aren't themselves die hard criminals even if they're being used by criminal gangs

 But a very high percent of them are. And it is 100% legitimate to say that 100% of them are criminals and have no problem committing crimes if they heal it will benefit them. So who knows what they would be willing to do as far as crimes go in the states.

At the end of the day I can't blame the Americans for saying that there's a problem and they expect us to do our share to try and help resolve it. If we are making a reasonable effort and we are doing the same sort of things that they themselves do then as far as I'm concerned that's good enough and if they have a problem with it then they're being unreasonable and we should address that appropriately.

But we all know that when it comes to the people side of the equation we're not doing hardly anything. We don't screen people In any kind of meaningful fashion. We've got thousands of people who came here claiming that they had intent to study at places like the University of Moosejaw. They were lied to, they might actually believe it, but they obviously had no intention of studying there because they didn't do any of their own background research on the place or they'd have realized it was fake.  And there's really no excuse whatsoever for Canadian officials not to say where are you studying and kind of raising an eyebrow when it's a place that doesn't exist.

So we definitely could do a lot more on that front. So the Americans kind of got a legit reason to wine

[cannuck]

9 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

The people trying to cross the border, are mainly Indians that are doing so, due to perceived better economic opportunities. Mainly Sikhs and Hindus. 

Have you lost your mind?????   EVERY one of those that successfully sneaks into the USA is out of our hair.   Shit, I will GLADLY buy their bus tickets.  Uncontrolled immigration from completely incompatible cultures IMHO is actually Canada's #1 problem at this time.

[cannuck]

14 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

At least Trudeau having been a wannabe actor has the EQ to act more or less dignified in public and can pass himself off as intelligent as long as he doesn’t stray too far from the script. 

You clearly have not had any discourse from anyone who has to deal with him.   He is the most embarrassing leaders we have ever had.  Nothing but pure drivel spews from his flapping yap.  I put him on the same level as Trump - only the Little Turd is spending MY grand children's future, so a much worse problem to us. PLEASE back off of this worship of your Havana Hero.

Edited November 29, 2024 by cannuck

[herbie]

So it seems Alberta's Danielle Smith is the first to fetch her knee pads and fall before the Almighty Trump.

After making an entire career of griping that everything Ottawa does is intruding on provincial rights, she's offering to use Albertans to help secure the international border for the DonOld. So much for solidarity.

At least Doug Ford had the balls to call Trumps tariff threats insulting.

[NAME REMOVED]

My new favorite politician.

 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

My new favorite politician.

 

Charlie has gone a little off the rails in the last 4 or 5 years on occasion, but historically he's actually been well respected on both sides of the political aisle.

And he certainly not afraid to stand up to the party when he thinks they're wrong, as he did famously over the gun registry debate where the NDP party leader at the time Gave him hell for voting against the gun registry and claimed that "if the conservatives are for something we are naturally against it automatically" turned around and said something to the effect of his job is to vote the way his constituents want and for what's best for Canada and not to be some rubber stamp for the party just because they want to say no everytime a conservative says yes.  (or words to that effect). 

I mean you have to respect that, even if you disagree with his politics. At the end of the day if he says something it's not because he's doing it for show or points, he probably generally means it  

[NAME REMOVED]

Canada is preparing to strike back hard with retaliatory tariffs if Trump starts a trade war

 

Published 5:49 PM EST, Fri January 10, 2025

 

Canada is preparing to retaliate with an exhaustive list of tariffs on American goods if President-elect Donald Trump follows through with his plans to add a steep 25% import tax on Canadian goods, people familiar with the matter told CNN. The preparations show how raising tariffs could kick off a trade war that will ultimately raise prices on a number of consumer goods around the world.

Canadian officials are working on a list of dozens of American products that the United States exports to Canada, targeting items that both send a political message and inflict a reasonable amount of economic damage, two sources said. Included in the list of items considered for tariffs are ceramic products, steel products, furniture, certain alcoholic beverages like Bourbon and Jack Daniels whiskey, orange juice and pet food, among other goods, the people familiar with the plans told CNN. American energy exports are also on the list, and – as a last resort – Canada could levy a tax on the energy products Canada exports to the United States.

But the sources cautioned that nothing has been decided yet, and the list could ultimately change or not be imposed at all. “I think we have to be ready,” said Melanie Joly, Canada’s foreign minister, during a press briefing in Ottawa Friday, as she was going into a cabinet meeting to discuss the list of retaliatory tariffs.

“I think that when President Trump talks, we listen, and we need to take him very seriously,” Joly said, adding that it was important for the president-elect and the people advising him to know there would be consequences if he imposes tariffs on Canadian products and that Canada has “leverage.”

The tariffs could deal a blow to Canadian businesses, which are preparing for a trade war with the United States, according to Goldy Hyder, CEO of the Business Council of Canada. Hyder told CNN that his membership, which includes Canada’s top CEOs, have only recently been consulted by the government and are being asked for input on retaliatory tariffs.

“We need to carefully articulate how we would respond,” Hyder said. “Some have said we should just simply mirror their tariffs, others have said we should be more temperate in our response to get their attention, others have said we should ‘swing big’ and respond with great strength.”

Hyder told CNN that Canadian business leaders have been preparing for a Trump presidency for nearly a year, but he noted that the implications of each strategy are still being analyzed.

A budding trade war

The announcement seemed designed to show that Ottawa is unafraid to get into a full-blown trade war, one that would deliver real economic pain to US workers, firms and allies of Trump. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced plans to resign earlier this week, following a mounting set of crises, including tariff threats from Trump.

As Canada has faced an intensifying political crisis, Trump has piled even more pressure on the longtime US friend and ally. Trump has vowed to impose 25% tariffs on Canada on his first day in office unless Ottawa addresses his concerns about the flow of illegal drugs across the border.

Trump has argued that the best way for Canada to avoid the pain of US tariffs would be to join the United States.

“If Canada merged with the US, there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them,” Trump said in a Truth Social post on Monday.

Canada is the United States’ largest trading partner. The United States imported $419 billion worth of Canadian goods in 2023, including everything from lumber and cement to cars and minerals. Canada is also the largest source of foreign oil into the United States.

During a press conference on Tuesday, Trump would not rule out using “economic force” to make a merger with Canada possible and said the United States doesn’t “need” anything made in Canada. “They have a very small military. They rely on our military. It’s fine, but they’ve got to pay for that,” Trump said.

[herbie]

Start with a low level supersonic flypast of the White House by our F18s during the inauguration.

[Aristides]

Good thing we built the TMX after all. Energy East should also be back on the table.

[CdnFox]

54 minutes ago, herbie said:

Start with a low level supersonic flypast of the White House by our F18s during the inauguration.

f18's can't go supersonic. Nice idea tho  

[NAME REMOVED]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Good thing we built the TMX after all. Energy East should also be back on the table.

I've been arguing this for 20 years. We need to build relationships with Europe and Asia. Reliance on the Americans leaves us vulnerable if the US implodes, like what has happened in the past decade.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

I've been arguing this for 20 years. We need to build relationships with Europe and Asia. Reliance on the Americans leaves us vulnerable if the US implodes, like what has happened in the past decade.

Unfortunately the left has blocked twinning that pipeline for quite some time. I'm afraid it's your fellow environmentalists that are the hang up here.

[Boges]

The irony is lost on Trumpers that this whole election was about lowering the cost of living but staggering tariffs will do the opposite.

Trump says there's nothing Canada makes that the US needs. Well if that's the case why do they buy from us? Because it's cheaper or better? 

How are US companies not screaming at Trump to not do this?Imagine an American company importing products from Mexico to export to Canada. Would that not be double tariffed?  

One thing I haven't heard in a few days is about Canada becoming the 51st State. I think the focus groups Trump listens to have reported back to him how silly it makes him look to keep saying that. 

 

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

The irony is lost on Trumpers that this whole election was about lowering the cost of living but staggering tariffs will do the opposite.

Trump says there's nothing Canada makes that the US needs. Well if that's the case why do they buy from us? Because it's cheaper or better? 

How are US companies not screaming at Trump to not do this?Imagine an American company importing products from Mexico to export to Canada. Would that not be double tariffed?  

 

 

We send four million barrels of oil a day to the US at below world price. Trump says he doesn't need it so maybe we should find out.

We send critical minerals to the US which they require for their tech and defence industries. Trump says he doesn't need them so maybe we should find out.

Quote

One thing I haven't heard in a few days is about Canada becoming the 51st State. I think the focus groups Trump listens to have reported back to him how silly it makes him look to keep saying that. 

It sounds silly to everyone except his cult who only know what FOX and Trump tell them.

Edited January 17 by Aristides

[Aristides]

If Trump places tariffs on all his western trading partners I can see it driving them closer to China. 

Edited January 18 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

If Trump places tariffs on all his western trading partners I can see it driving them closer to China. 

And each other for that matter.  Canada may look more to europe for items the source in the US and may keep that up moving forward to reduce dependency on the us. 

Also it makes it more worth it to develop some businesses at home to provide for what the US currently does. 

This kind of thing is exactly why we brought in 'supply management' to protect our food supply and why we don't allow our telecoms to be owned by foreign nations. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

This is a potential vulnerability for the Conservatives, especially when some of their more rabid supporters are cheering Trump on. Freeland has experience negotiating trade deals. Both she and Carney will be anxious to make the next federal election about Trump and the threat he poses to Canada rather than the Liberal record in power. 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

This is a potential vulnerability for the Conservatives, especially when some of their more rabid supporters are cheering Trump on. Freeland has experience negotiating trade deals. Both she and Carney will be anxious to make the next federal election about Trump and the threat he poses to Canada rather than the Liberal record in power. 

The problem especially for her is that she has a bad history of negotiating trade relationships, and trump clearly has disdain for her and Trudeau so it's going to be hard for her to sell that she's going to be good at dealing with him.

Further this issue may very well be dead by the time the next election rolls around. It's going to be April before we can even start the next election and trump gets in on Monday.

The real question will be how will trump mess with things? There is a very real possibility he could jump in part way through a leadership or election campaign and make a statement like  "Carney? I've heard bad things, we wouldn't deal with him" or the like about ANY of the prospects including PP if he felt like it and completely influence the direction of the leadership or election campaign.